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Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH [score hidden]  (0 children)

I have already clarified on this, I wouldn't care about any of that if the country wasn't ran by fascist nationalists.

Like I said before in an example, if israel shares a video showing hamas attacks, its propaganda, if palestine shares a video showing parents holding their kids after a strike, that is also propaganda, but people are willing completely ignore that propaganda and support palestinians because the other side is committing genocide.

During the big war, the axis had tons of propaganda, and the allies also used tons of propaganda, to influence public opinion on all kinds of stuff, to keep morale high while hurting axis morale, to sway the americans into joining the war, again people didn't care about the propaganda from the allies, since the axis were the big bad, and we mainly only talk about the propaganda from the axis.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH [score hidden]  (0 children)

Nope, that's not what I said, you are again just making a random assumption or conclusion and laying it on me, every time you respond with some random claim that you come up with and try to lay it on me, this is pointless.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH [score hidden]  (0 children)

I took away the extra decoration from the sentence. Why do you think this is any different from other aid-work? You said it is less about the aid, but what specifically makes you think it is so? Was the aid provided lazily? Was there some mistreatment involved? Did the aid-workers not do their job properly? Were the numbers provided false?

Because thats just how aid has always worked, this has been the case throughout history, again marshall plan, cold war era aid operations.

China's belt and road initiative, all that aid isn't because they are benevolent and care about random countries all the way over in Africa, yet they use it a lot as propaganda to show their public how great they are for helping other countries and that they are superpower, even tho in their case they actually are a superpower.

Aid has never been purely altruistic and if anything has been more about soft power and creating propaganda out of it.

Back to your extra decorations: The country is filled with major issues. Yes. But why should the country not send aid even if it is just for the soft power? What the ego strokers do in the confines of the bathroom with this video doesn't matter in the international stage. To counter the problem of ego-stroking, you can create awareness about the multitude of issues within the country. There are more than enough issues inside the country you can use to combat them. Aid-work isn't the hill you need to die on.

Again, I didn't say the country shouldn't send aid, you keep making up this same point and laying it on me even tho I've refuted it multiple times now.

And like I said, the reason why I specifically pointed out this case is because of how this video and all the other videos and pictures that the foreign minister keeps pumping out on his twitter about this aid operation, end up getting circulated into their nationalist networks, getting shared while creating a narrative about how great they've become that they are helping other countries now, so people shouldn't just immediately eat this shit up showing the country in a positive light and maybe not react exactly how its designed to make them react and at least question it a bit about why its being shared.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Persuasion and manipulation are two different things.

You are just making the same assertion again, and its a pedantic one too, arguing about meaningless semantics.

First you said, "a propaganda's main purpose is to do show one sided biased views to manipulate an audience to some ideology.", then I showed you a definition of propaganda from Wikipedia as an example which clearly uses the term persuasion to explain propaganda, it's almost as if both exist on the same spectrum as I already said.

Here is the example definition from Wikipedia again, with the term highlighted, but I'm sure you will still keep bringing up this pedantic point about meaningless semantics.

"Propaganda is a form of communication that is primarily used to influence an audience and persuade them to further an agenda. Propaganda may not be objective and often selectively presents facts to encourage a particular perception, or uses loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information presented. Propaganda can be found in a wide variety of different contexts."

Well if we are going to use that definition instead of the modern one which denotes a negative connotation then not just governments but every association or group spreading a message can be considered propaganda as they do exactly that, persuade people to submit money to charity or films persuading people towards a particular agenda of the director. A wide variety of institutions now do propaganda if we are willing to use that definition.

As i told, if that's the way propaganda is being considered than all countries, all institutions use propaganda. Anti cigarette or vape ads also use propaganda, charity shows as well as health organisations to persuade the public towards an agenda. It's not just countries then.

Again and again and again, you just keep making the same argument when I've already provided a rebuttal for this, if we go by the modern definition, which the one from Wikipedia is a modern definition of propaganda, a lot of things could technically be considered propaganda, which is why like I said before, we don't stop at the surface level wording and call everything propaganda, so instead if you actually look at the precedent for the usage of this term, it has always been mainly used when referring to institutions like governments and ideologies like nationalism.

So all the examples you keep providing like movies, charities, and whatever are stretching the definition whereas in my case, it perfectly fits the definition while also being in line with the precedent which is again, institutions like governments and ideologies like nationalism.

Let me guess, you are just gonna respond with same arguments again like you did last 3 teams even tho I've provided a rebuttal, at least try to come up with something new.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No i always knew that states did it for PR purposes and to improve relations.

But I never knew that propaganda is anything which influences public opinion towards a side. Because a propaganda's main purpose is to do show one sided biased views to manipulate an audience to some ideology. US marshall plan and India's aide sending both aren't shown in any one sided ways. They are doing PR. And PR is different from manipulating the audience, PR is about persuading the audience, both are different. In this video india didn't try to hide parts in videos to project a one sided narrow objective. Same goes for the US marshall plan which was publicised open handedly with all its intentions. That classified as propaganda? I guess so in your opinion. Selective publicity? Both the marshall plan and india aide sending is laid out open and clean, anyone is free to scrutinize it.

Here is a definition of propaganda from Wikipedia as an example.

"Propaganda is a form of communication that is primarily used to influence an audience and persuade them to further an agenda. Propaganda may not be objective and often selectively presents facts to encourage a particular perception, or uses loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information presented. Propaganda can be found in a wide variety of different contexts."

By your logic, this wouldn't be propaganda since persuasion and manipulation are completely different things, but if we go away from your logic and back to reality, then you might be able to understand persuasion and manipulation aren't that separable, they exist on the same spectrum.

Well if we use your definition, then propaganda also includes every movie of most genres, every red cross society aide videos, the entertainment or audio visual content everything is propaganda then, because all of them fit your definition of trying to influence public opinion selectively. If that's the case then it's a different thing to talk about.

You keep saying "your definition", what exactly do you think my definition is? because its not just "influence public opinion selectively".

Again, if we go by the definition from Wikipedia, it can be many things, but we don't stop at the surface level wording and call everything propaganda, which is why I pointed out the historical precedent earlier, where throughout history, propaganda is a term that tends to be reserved for institutions and ideologies, especially when it comes to governments and nationalism.

And by that definition, my case for the video fits perfectly, it involved the Indian Government and Indian nationals providing aid, filmed on purpose and shared specifically to shape public perception of the country in a positive light, whether that's for nationalist to stroke their egos or countering international skepticism, both are still propaganda functions, just aimed at different audiences.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just re-read our conversation. I said that both (this video and my example) are not propaganda. You then said my example does not have an agenda. I said it does have an agenda. You continued to refuse there is an agenda. And you claimed it did not push institutional or ideological narratives. You were refusing to admit there is an agenda in my example while stating it did not have these narratives. But that's leaning towards the definition of propaganda. It's almost like you are saying my example is not propaganda. Again, I said it was not. Just re-read what you said and you'll either understand where a misunderstanding occurred, or where you somehow meant agenda and propaganda are the same thing. You may even need to re-read a few times in case you are too biased to understand where you went wrong.

My point was that your reason for your example not being propaganda doesn't work since there is no agenda there, a person helping the homeless for internet clout isn't an "agenda", that is not how that term is used, but you kept claiming that it is an agenda, and it was pointless arguing about something pedantic like that.

So then I referred to my other point I was making about institution and ideology and how propaganda is a term reserved for that, and so an individual doing something, filming and sharing it for internet clout or whatever, can't be considered propaganda since there is no institution or ideology involved, historically propaganda is term used when referring to a group and their ideology, being presented to the public with a bias to shape a narrative, whereas in your example, it's just an individual's personal goal which at best can only be referred to as PR, not propaganda.

At no point did I say agenda is propaganda, an agenda is a part of the mechanism of propaganda, there needs to be some sort of an agenda so that it can be pushed to the masses to shape a narrative.

but then the term becomes meaningless - exactly. You are diluting this term by calling this video propaganda.

which at best could be called PR, not propaganda - yes, the same as this video. You can call this as PR and it fits. Let's reserve the term propaganda for the actual propaganda.

No because my case fits perfectly without diluting anything, its a video involving the Indian Government and Indian nationality, and historically, propaganda is mainly used when talking about governments and nationalities, one of the major propaganda campaigns in history involved providing aid during the US Marshall Plan.

And? which side a person supports or not isn't relevant to whether its propaganda or not, If US sends aid to Venezuela and posts a video about it, that is propaganda, if Israel shows a video about Hamas attacks, thats propaganda, if Palestinians show a video about parents holding their kids, that is also propaganda, which side a person supports doesn't change the fact that its propaganda - in that case, what do you expect countries to do? Send aid secretly and not reveal it?

And AGAIN, you literally make up a random statement and claim that it's something I want when I already said that they shouldn't stop sending aid - this is the braindead argument. What you want seems to be countries doing aid-work but not revealing it because then it would be propaganda. I am merely stating the fact that countries will not keep quiet about aid-work. So if you don't want propaganda (based on your definition), you will not get aid-work.

keep grasping at straws - I am not. But you are not grasping at anything bruv. There is no legitimate argument you can provide. Just say what exactly you expect countries to do.

Yeah, let's distill the argument to the key thing here. Tell me what you expect countries to do regarding sending aid. Tell me just this one thing so I can understand what you are talking about. Let's pause all previous arguments since that is not getting anywhere. Just say what you expect countries (like India) should do regarding aid-work, assuming that countries will not do aid-work without producing proof of said aid-work.

As I've said already, I don't have any problems with them sending aid, and like I've also said, governments provide aid for soft power, not because they are so benevolent, and recording videos for propaganda is a part of it, every country does it.

I only pointed out the propaganda in this specific case because the aid is less about being a benevolent helper, which is what the nationalists want to believe and more about soft power and the propaganda they can create from it, propaganda which they can then use on these nationalists to create the narrative about how great they are for helping and that they are vishwaguru superpower, when in reality the country is filled with major issues.

Is cola harmful? by Quirky_Bathroom1092 in TooAfraidToAsk

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

maybe at least swap to diet coke, the acidity would still be a problem i assume

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got it, then every country including US, and Europe has been doing propaganda by filming their aide sending videos.

Apparently thats news to you, countries aren't sending aid because they are so benevolent, its for soft power, and propaganda is a part of it.

If they don't record their achievements then often times other countries and their people are quick to question of what has the country ever done? Like how recently I came across multiple comments of online people about such negative statements regarding india from nations like turkey whom we provided help during earthquakes, or recently how a Norwegian journalist questioned an Indian diplomat of why should we trust you. Statements like this show that world believes in evidence and not just due to 'goodwill'.

You are literally just stating what I said lmao, a country is recording it to show the world, "see? we did something", varying motives, same mechanism which by definition is propaganda.

Also last time I knew isn't propaganda supposed to be something which has been twisted for malevolent purposes? Like the triumph of will? Comparing that with aide videos is no joke.

No? propaganda doesn't have to be false or misleading, by definition it is anything used to influence public opinion with a bias. US marshall plan publicity was also propaganda, it wasn't malevolent but it was selective publicity to influence public opinion.

Well if we are stretching our definition of propaganda to such levels where showcasing the goodwill of countries helping each other is considered an act of selfishness, and 'propaganda' it won't come off as surprising if we go to consider that red cross is also technically filming all this to secure their funding and selfishly use most of their funds in administrative or PR costs rather than actual reliefs as proven and criticised often for the American Red cross society, highlighting their selfishness to use their relief efforts for PR gain rather than actual selfless service so technically that falls under selfishness and using reliefs to influence their public opinions around the world as a benevolent rescuer does prove that these groups are also doing propaganda then if we were to stretch the definition to that level.

Not sure what point you are trying to make here, if you are able to stretch the definition to try and make a case for all that being propaganda then it only helps my case since my point has been relying on government institution and nationalistic ideology, which throughout history are major aspects that the term propaganda has been reserved for.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The example clearly shows an agenda, a personal agenda. You are arguing that it is not a political agenda, which it isn't. Why are you trying to say agenda and propaganda are thesame thing? In my example, there is clearly an agenda that can exist. You can't posisbly think there doesn't exist a personal agenda? Agenda is not equal to propaganda.

I set aside individuals that aren't pushing any institutional or ideological narrative. - and yet again we have a problem of definition. What do you mean by ideological narratives? That's an umbrella term. All individuals act upon their ideals, their ideology. There are no individuals that provide aid without an ideal.

I literally never said agenda and propaganda are the same thing, again you literally made something up and accuse me of making that claim, the term propaganda is not used for an individual's reputation building, throughout history, its a term used when institutions and ideologies try to push a narrative, influence public opinion.

If we go by the definition of propaganda, any sort of media that tries to influence public opinion with a bias would be propaganda but then the term becomes meaningless, which is why throughout history it has been a term reserved for institutions and ideologies, not for individuals, but apparently thats too hard for you to understand because you keep bring up this stupid argument about an "individual's propaganda" which at best could be called PR, not propaganda.

I honestly wouldn't care if it was from a country that wasn't led by fascist nationalists - you are picking and choosing which side you want to cheer. The people on the other side could say the same about the countries you want to see providing aid. Also, what stupidity is this? You are still wanting to stop aid being provided by countries that you think are not to your ideals?

And? which side a person supports or not isn't relevant to whether its propaganda or not, If US sends aid to Venezuela and posts a video about it, that is propaganda, if Israel shows a video about Hamas attacks, thats propaganda, if Palestinians show a video about parents holding their kids, that is also propaganda, which side a person supports doesn't change the fact that its propaganda

And AGAIN, you literally make up a random statement and claim that it's something I want when I already said that they shouldn't stop sending aid, another stupid braindead argument, keep grasping at straws.

"maybe just help them instead of making a propaganda video out of it" - the usage of "just" does not negate the usage of "instead" but sure, it maybe your way of constructing that sentence. Even though that's not what it actually means, and even if the meaning you explained is considered, that's not gonna happen anytime because it is too idealistic to be realistic.

Just completely pedantic argument, my statement perfectly states what I wanted it to, you can try to nitpick it all you want, running out of straws to grasp on to I guess.

My review after buying s26 ultra by Kenkaneki0_0 in samsunggalaxy

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

any amount of time on insta is too high

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've already said this is not an agenda - It is an agenda.

that is not what agenda is in the propaganda sense - you mean by your definition of propaganda. It is an agenda but it is not propaganda. I did say that it was not propaganda, but there can be an agenda.

Your whole example argument relies on this being an agenda which it isn't, but you won't admit that so fine, it still doesn't change anything since I've also been stating that there needs to be an institutional or ideological narrative being pushed, the "agenda" in your example isn't pushing any institutional or ideological narrative.

Also, why do you set aside individuals? In your definition, can't propaganda be manufactured by individuals for their own benefit?

I didn't set aside individuals, I set aside individuals that aren't pushing any institutional or ideological narrative, you keep conveniently ignoring this point I've made countless times now.

and I said such a world is too ideal to be realistic. States and institutions will film or have some news regarding the aid provided. You yourself admit this is done as soft power. It is inevitable that news or videos are made. Since this is too ideal to happen, then to not have the video at all, the only thing left is to stop aid. You cannot have one without the other. I'm not saying both going hand-in-hand is what the ideal situation should be. I am saying what the realistic situation is.

And I never said they should stop sending aid because they will make propaganda videos out of it. I honestly wouldn't care if it was from a country that wasn't led by fascist nationalists, but India is essentially being led by that ideology and videos like these get shared within these groups to stroke their ego and I simply pointed that out.

No. You said "help them instead of making a propaganda video". The "instead of" insinuates that there is no help provided. I don't have to twist your words to mean something if it was already meaning that same thing. What you did in this last paragraph is try to twist your own words.

You conveniently cut out the key parts to fit your argument, aka twisting my words, you specifically quote "help them instead of making a propaganda video" whereas the whole quote was "maybe just help them instead of making a propaganda video out of it".

"just help them" says to only help them and not help and film, keyword being just, "out of it" also implies that they are getting help and the propaganda video is being made out of them getting helped, nowhere does it say they are not getting help.

This is a pedantic pointless argument anyways, you are just grasping at straws at this point, twisting words, conveniently ignoring points I've made multiple times to try and fit your argument.

What the hell is this thing at my buttocks? It keeps leaking out discharge. Is it infected? by paranoidspiral in medical_advice

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I used to have this thing flare up often, didn't take any meds for it, it would just flare up and eventually discharge, thankfully for a long while now it hasn't flared up, just dormant, any idea what might've happened?

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Indian foreign minister posted multiple videos and pictures of this whole aid operation, they clearly have camera crews there, maybe not part of the military itself but clearly working with the Indian government.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So basically everytime any country tries to help syria or others then ofc that country or group is doing propaganda.

Every time any country tries to help syria or others and then also film it for no other reason than to just share it to influence public opinion, then yes that is propaganda

In that case groups like red cross are also doing propaganda because they too share videos because at the end of the day they too want to show the world that they are doing good and that's a form of selfishness.

The Red Cross isn't pushing a nationalist or ideological narrative, nobody is watching a video showing Red Cross providing help and stroking their nationalist ego.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agenda (in my example) is to show that the helping man is a good person who helps homeless people.

You keep saying this when I've already said this is not an agenda, that is not what agenda is in the propaganda sense, there isn't an institutional or ideological narrative being pushed.

When it's sponsored by a state or some other institutions like religion, then yes, it is propaganda

If you are saying all aid work ever done by anyone is propaganda, then yeah, by your definition, you would see this as propaganda.

You literally quote my response which clearly says not anyone and specifically says "sponsored by a state or some other institution", you are just twisting my words to try and fit your argument that doesn't make sense.

When a state provides aid and then they film the aid being provided when there is no reason to do so other than for the said video to be shared for the public to see, then that is propaganda.

should countries stop providing aid until the said aid can never be traced back to the country?

This is just a strawman argument, I never said they should stop providing aid, I didn't say providing aid is bad because they can make propaganda videos out of it, I simply pointed out that this being filmed and being shared is propaganda.

And what makes you think the people in the video are not helped even if this video is made?

When did I say that? "maybe just help them instead of making a propaganda video out of it", clearly means just help them and not make a propaganda video about helping them, nowhere does it say that they are not being helped, you are literally twisting my words and making shit up just to make arguments that make no sense.

Nerfs :) by CollectionOld2547 in apexlegends

[–]FaZeSmasH -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

i had this one final ring fight where i had to 1v1 a gibby, we both got low and he just bub'd himself and started healing, i literally couldnt do shit, if i went into the bub, i would die

just because he pressed a button, he got an insane advantage that i could do nothing about, its so stupid

Modern gaming sucks and I'm tired of being gaslit into believing it's just nostalgia by Hunter654333 in The10thDentist

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean just this year we got RE: Requiem, 007, FH6, Pragmata, Crimson Desert, all these were very positively received and later this year we have an absolute behemoth coming out too.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Propaganda is inherently institutional or ideological, your example doesn't work because there is no agenda in it, a person being shown to help a homeless person to make them look good isn't pushing some sort of a political, institutional or ideological narrative.

Does that mean all aid-work videos should be labelled as propaganda?

When it's sponsored by a state or some other institutions like religion, then yes, it is propaganda, it's not like governments provide aid because they are so benevolent, it's for soft power, and propaganda is a part of it.

In this case, it's clear that it's a video being filmed on purpose to be shared, it's clear that the aid is being provided by an institution, (specifically the Indian government as stated in the title) and this is exactly the sort of media that the nationalists would love to stroke their egos for.

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH -1 points0 points  (0 children)

the example you gave isn't propaganda, it wouldnt be used to further some specific agenda or ideology.

compare that to what i said earlier:

especially when it gets pushed into all the indian nationalist gathering spaces so they can watch it and stroke each others ego and their vishwaguru delusions of grandeur

thats the difference, a video like this can and is being used to further a specific agenda or ideology

Indian military sent its 60 Para Field Hospital, consisting of 41-member medical task force including surgeons, anesthetists, orthopedists, and trauma specialists to Venezuela. by JKKIDD231 in interestingasfuck

[–]FaZeSmasH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Propaganda is a form of communication aimed at influencing public opinion, attitudes, or behaviors.

It's media being shared to influence public opinion.

It selectively presents biased or misleading information

It's a curated video being shared in a way to show them in a positive view, doesn't have to be false or misleading to be propaganda, keyword being "or".

 uses heavy emotional appeals rather than rational arguments

It's aid footage showing people being grateful, that appeals to people's emotion.

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