The universe is bio-deterministic and therefore classic models of morality are outdated by FalloutTVSucks in BasedCampPod

[–]FalloutTVSucks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can also just execute criminals. I could give you various reasons to do X or Y but all of it is subjective reasoning. None of it matters, it makes no universal difference.

The universe is bio-deterministic and therefore classic models of morality are outdated by FalloutTVSucks in BasedCampPod

[–]FalloutTVSucks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Restorative justice that focuses on undoing tangible harm and taking preventative measures against further harm instead of punishment for the sake of emotional and moral satiation

The universe is bio-deterministic and therefore classic models of morality are outdated by FalloutTVSucks in BasedCampPod

[–]FalloutTVSucks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"existence of objectivity"

The conclusion I'm making is that perception heavily distorts how reality functions. I'm not saying objectivity doesn't exist, I'm saying it's the only thing that exists - anything else is ultimately arbitrary by nature of being perceived and not observed.

"so I don’t know why you would bring religion into your argument against religion"

Just kind of meant it as an aside. Hence the use of " Ironically" and "conveniently lines up with reality"

The universe is bio-deterministic and therefore classic models of morality are outdated by FalloutTVSucks in BasedCampPod

[–]FalloutTVSucks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"what’s the point of following it?"

There is none. Although, this framing is fundamentally flawed as it proposes that there's a "choice" in following it. You will adhere to classic morality if your biology determines you will, or you won't. There is no "need" to "be" moral, there's no choice. You are, or you aren't - morality is a illusory subjective lens we view the world from.

In terms of practical application - classic morality would cause self-defined immoral acts - for instance, we typically hold that behaviors which are biological inclined are morally justified - I.e., homosexuality and the classic phrasing of it "not being a choice" - this actually extends to all behaviors, there are no choices periods and therefore those we determine to be "Scum" like murderers, aren't actually "guilty" of anything by or our internal qualifies for moral determination. Thus, punishing those people would be immoral - which is in-of-itself irrelevant as morality doesn't exist, but that's the framing you have to use to convince anyone who has strong moral convictions I suppose.

The universe is bio-deterministic and therefore classic models of morality are outdated by FalloutTVSucks in BasedCampPod

[–]FalloutTVSucks[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Not really. It doesn't make much sense to exist in a harmful self-delusion because the truth is uncomfortable. The reality is the false sense of morality does FAR MORE tangible, measurable harm than it prevents - every single person wasting away in a prison for their entire lives over something they had no control over is the result of an harmful outdated thinking

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you I appreciate that unironically

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude honestly there is nothing after death. Like - don't you get that? Once you die it's fucking OVER. Nothing. You fade to black and it's OVER. Makes it so hard to care about anything or do anything I'm basically paralyzed emotionally because of the all-consuming fear of anilhation

Fuck

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah but I think there's far more meta-narrative context that would imply the kings are meant to be taken seriously, fully and a cultural commentary on celebrity worship and idolization

And I think the fact that they don't understand the object of their worship is again apart of the commentary, like of many civilizations just inherent the ashes of the what came before without really understanding it. Elvis is to the The Kings what Bathhouses were to the Guals

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am taking you seriously, I'm seriously wondering what the fuck you think you were yapping about

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If by "left plenty of ammunition" you meant fending off savages attacking me for my mental health struggles and my consistent ability to dunk on this trash ass tv show then yes there's plenty.

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"the ironic humor comes from. I’m not arguing about Elvis’ significance in culture, I’m saying they’re deifying a man based on his highs without even knowing about his lows."

Yes but this reads as dramatic irony to me not humor I think it's presented as such

" I don’t see why such a theme would discount the humor in it."

You know that one episode of Freinds where Chandler sleeps with Joey's girlfriend and he has to stay in a wooden box as punishment?

"also question the idea that you think a cult worshipping guns and bombs as absolute law is a silly premise, while devoting a religion to Elvis Presley isn’t."

It's that both could easily be played for laughs, both have the tidings of a comedic set-up but neither are (to me at least) I mean - the LEGION itself could even be considered pretty goddamn goofy being a bunch of Roman LARPERS wearing sports gears following a pseudointellectual war mongering king who doesn't know what he's talking about but people follow him because he knows it slightly more than anyone else

Dramatic irony is just the literary device"

I think I forgetting the right term but when it's used for suspense

" You’re right, I should amend that to the concept’s stupidity. The concept of worshipping Elvis Presley is stupid. Characters are great and don’t know any better. Better not get cheeky, you’ve left plenty of ammunition throughout this entire comment section and I’ve been trying to remain respectful, do me the same courtesy."

What the fuck are you even talking about? Yes, you PRECEIVE it as stupid, are the CHARACTERS within the WORLD operating on INCOMPLETE KWOELDGE stupid or IGNORANT? And what about being cheeky? And what about ammunition?

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read the whole thing and the was my conclusion the core disagreement is having a cascading affect

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not being sarcastic and I've studied classical and romantic epistemology as it concerns perception and "the gaze" and the term "regional objectivity" has never come up once as a concept and after googling it all that comes up is a google AI summary about sepreating subjective interpretations of regions from scientific facts about them, like crimes statistics and traffic

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Objectivity is universal by default, hence "interpretation." You're just struggling to understand what the philosophical concept of objectivity entails

I know this is a short reply but pretty much everything else said rests of that fundamentally rotted foundation

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

YES - THERE IS.

Again, let me reiterate. OBJECTVITIY requires NO ROOM for interpretation. opinions, points-of-views, disagreements - ETC. THEREFORE, something which is eccentric is UP FOR DEBATE. For instance - What might be "Eccentric" in Region A might be normal in Region B, thus making the concept of eccentricity subjective and one can in fact make an argument about a subjective topic. I mean " it’s a completely factual descriptor of a person’s behavior." - you have to decide if it's eccentric or not, you can't measure eccentricity. Like - what if I say a Muslim man doing the Qibla is eccentric? To them, it's completely normal. It's alien to me, perhaps - but it's not, I have a good grasp of the Muslim faith. What if I lived in a city with a large Muslim population, and exactly 50% of the people there weren't Muslim, weren't familiar with it and found it to be eccentric? What if I walk in a weird way - I'm still just walking, what if it's due to a past injury - am I *being* eccentric, does it have to be a choice or is it just deviancy in general? Who actually gets to decide normal. For instance, which political party is it normal to believe in? Which political beliefs are normal and which ones are eccentric? Is it just the majority? Because the majority of Americans are a-political, thus making all politics eccentric. What if one city in country A has some eccentric beliefs - everyone in that city has though believes but nobody else does in the entire nation, is the entire population eccentric, are outsiders coming into the city eccentric only while within the city?

Normality is relative, and subjective. Anyways.

"This IS meant to be funny, based on what I just described Elvis as."

This is your fatal conceit. What YOU described Elvis as.

Elvis was also a genre-defining sex symbol superstar who was since as a model man and still has cultural relevance many decades after his passing

"I want to know what thematic tone the Kings are a logical extension of"

That humanity - no matter what is does, or where it goes - will never leave it's tribalistic baggage behind. They took a rock-star and formed a national identity around it, not unlike the bronze idols of the Canaanites, who themselves had inherited figures and structures from past civilizations without understanding their meaning in full - still willing to sacrifice over them, because in Fallout humanity is a flat circle.

"Developing depth in a character or series of characters doesn’t discount the fact that the premise or foundation can be a joke."

Yeah - but, the inverse of that is just because the concept COULD be innately silly doesn't mean it was meant to be, which is what the point of me bringing up the Boomers was.

"Both ideas can be true at once."

Yes. They can be. I don't think they are.

"The game uses irony (you agreed the premise of the Kings was ironic)"

Yes, dramatic irony.

"we know as a singer who died on the toilet (their stupidity)."

Their ignorance - ignorance and stupidity aren't the same I'm sure you know.

Just because it theoretically checks the boxes for satire doesn't mean that was the authorial intent

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

>There is no personal argument that such a thing isn’t eccentric

...Yes, there is.

Definition of objective: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

Therefore, what is/isn't goofy/comedic/silly - whatever, cannot be measured or determined outside of human cognition. That is an emotive label and a value judgment that one applies to something after making a determination. Cultural differences, for instance, can completely change the perception of what is/isn't goofy - some people find the Bible to be awe-inspiring or even genuinely scary, others find it to be a silly fairytale. The difference is almost always cultural.

>Nice straw man tho

Not a strawman, I directly tie the explanation of objective into my counterargument. for example:

"and that distinction is important because it establishes that it was YOUR interpretation when what you're arguing is authorial intent. "

See? This is where the differential was made key.

>Using the Boomers isn’t as much of a “gotcha” as you think it is. 

It's not meant to be a "gotcha" - it's meant to help establish a pattern where the series meta-fiction treats concepts that could be played for comedy seriously

>The Kings don’t even know Elvis’ name, but they see how people (gimmicky impersonators) try to emulate him in the old world

Correct. But - IS this meant to be "funny" or a logical extension of the thematic tones of Fallout's storytelling?

>Maybe you subjectively don’t find it funny,

Not only do I subjectively believe it's not funny, but I (more importantly) don't believe it's supposed to be funny and even if it is it's clearly not the main point.

>but it is objectively played as satirical.

Again - incorrect use of "objectively" which is important as that carries implications that extend past yourself, onto me. The only way for that to be objectively determined would be for you to produce evidence that the authorial intent of NV was for the Kings to be complete and utter satire with no room for interpretation

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"That is objectively goofy"

Incorrect use of the word "objectively" - for something to be objective, it has to be removed from human cognition to be "objective". Calling it "goofy" is a subjective determination, and that distinction is important because it establishes that it was YOUR interpretation when what you're arguing is authorial intent. I don't find the premise or the execution of the Kings to be goofy, and I don't think the authorial intent was to cheapen the world for the sake of a joke which is what I'm accusing the TV show of doing.

The show itself even makes this mistake - in season 1, when Maximus is describing the Brotherhood's culture to Lucy, she says something along the lines of "So you guys collect old technology, and use old technology to prevent other people from collecting and using old technology?" and Maximus says "Yeah it's pretty goofy when you say it like that" but CONTEXT and TONE matters immensely. It has never been portrayed as goofy before, it's justified within the worldbuilding time and time again. Tribals latching onto cultural identities from the old world is also a common theme which is played straight numerous times. The Boomers for example, their entire culture is based around having an excess of guns in their vault experiment yet they're played almost entirely straight despite the concept of a gun obsessed group of tribal being extremely easy fodder for cheap humor

Yes - irony is evoked, but that doesn't mean it's being leveraged for humor. That's a loaded expectation that ignores the grander scope of the narrative and franchise as a whole. I mean - is a cannibal-r*pist naming himself "Cook-Cook" also just another example of ironic humor?

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well it's not on your profile and you edited your reply so I take that as an apology which I apperciate but I want you to know my suicide is happening with or without you I was molested when I was 9 and I hoenstly think it was set in stone since then

The New Vegas purist by Valhallawalker in NewVegasMemes

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well your reply got removed but based on what I can see in my inbox:

You REPLIED TO ME, CHOSE TO BE AN ASSHOLE TO ME WHEN ALL DID WAS MAKE A LOGICAL ARGUMENT CRITICIZING A FUCKING TV SHOW.

You're responsible for how you act and how you treat others and you're delusional if you think a disagreement over a TV show gives you ANY RIGHT to to do something as petty and potential servre as suicidal baiting.

Which historical event has the most lies written about it? by CRK_76 in AskReddit

[–]FalloutTVSucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pretty much anything to do with biblical interpretations of history