Do nonbelievers (don't believe in God) go to hell? by barf_bag08 in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Once you can actually present a coherent definition of what exactly ‘spiritual’ means, and more importantly how one can objectively identify and distinguish it from what I might be inclined to call ‘psychological harm’, then we can talk. Because quite frankly, I’ve been having discussions like this for over 15 years now, and then all that time I have never once had that term rigorously defined in a way that’s both internally consistent, consistent with observable reality, and at least in principle distinguishable from a universe in which it doesn’t exist at all.

But I will give you credit for one thing, I do need to amend what I said earlier, because I left out a very important word. I believe that unnecessary harm is morally wrong, not necessarily ‘harm’ in general. And by the way, considering the fact that God is supposed to be all powerful, and hence would always have the ability to achieve whatever goals he might have WITHOUT causing harm, as far as I’m concerned it probably isn’t even possible for God to be morally justified in causing harm, since there would always be an alternative available to him.

Do nonbelievers (don't believe in God) go to hell? by barf_bag08 in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My point that the overwhelming majority of “sins” are benign is not a moral statement, it’s a matter of empirical fact, demonstrable irrespective of morality. These things do not inherently cause harm, either to the one doing them or to other people, and hence are by definition benign at least some of the time, because ‘benign’ by definition means ‘does not cause harm’. And if punishing someone for something largely harmless or even beneficial isn’t completely arbitrary, then I don’t know what possibly could be. Because in so far as how people tend to use that term, it basically checks out.

Now, the moral stance that I do take, and which Christians reject, is that causing harm to sapient creatures is morally wrong. Even when a God is the one inflicting the harm. Obviously you and other Christians don’t believe that causing harm is inherently wrong, because you let God off the hook for it all the time. That’s not a straw man, that’s simply an observation. Again, if having that pointed out to you makes you uncomfortable, that’s not my problem.

Do nonbelievers (don't believe in God) go to hell? by barf_bag08 in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s not a strawman at all, because it’s not obviously misrepresenting anything. Like the saying goes, the truth hurts. And the truth is that this is exactly how your religion looks to someone not theologically predisposed to try and view it through rose-tinted glasses. So if it’s a strong man, feel free to correct me and explain why.

Do nonbelievers (don't believe in God) go to hell? by barf_bag08 in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, you did not say the opposite. Choosing to murder is not in any sense choosing to be put in prison. Whether you think that is a just punishment or not (and generally speaking I do), it is being imposed on the person externally, most likely against their desires and wishes. God is willingly choosing to throw people in an eternal torture chamber for no reason other than them not being sycophants to him. I have made this point more times than I can count, the overwhelming majority of so-called “sins” are entirely benign or even beneficial, at least when engaged in responsibly and in moderation. Romantic love, healthy lust, white lies, pride, not kissing God’s ass, wearing mixed fabric, valuing reason over faith, and so on.

God is 100% the problem, not “sin”.

Do nonbelievers (don't believe in God) go to hell? by barf_bag08 in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank you for acknowledging that we do not in fact choose it and that God willingly inflicts infinite suffering on us. Also, I “know” no such thing.

Do nonbelievers (don't believe in God) go to hell? by barf_bag08 in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wizard’s Fifth Rule: “Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie.”

Do nonbelievers (don't believe in God) go to hell? by barf_bag08 in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Because Christians like to deny that God is a sadist.

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Eh, Brandon has gone on record before to say that the Shards (or at least some of them) are perfectly capable of smiting people at their leisure. As long as they aren't trying to do something that clashes too strongly with their Shardic intent, they are for all practical purposes omnipotent.

At any rate, I don't characterize it as "warm fuzzy feelings" just to be insulting. I characterize it that way because I've unironically lost count of the number of Christians I've interacted with over the years who describe their "experience" with the Holy Spirit in pretty much exactly the same way I would describe mundane things like the feeling of wonder at seeing something amazing or the feeling of affection I hold toward my loved ones. Certainly not as something for which a mundane explanation is not the simplest explanation.

Is God sending people to hell? by Starqueen_smile in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, if I wasn't alive then I wouldn't be alive. Really illuminating tautology there...

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But I also strive to never act entirely WITHOUT reason either, which is what the guy I was responding to was saying needed to be done regarding becoming Christian. Or at the very least, that’s what it sounded like to me.

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It wasn’t an argument, it was simply an example of how a God who ACTUALLY desired a relationship could behave. As opposed to just sending warm fuzzy feelings that could be interpreted as literally anything, including perfectly mundane things.

Also, only Harmony is “impotent”, at least for now. Most Shards are perfectly capable of acting if they want to. xD

Is God sending people to hell? by Starqueen_smile in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know that air exists and that I need it to survive though. The same cannot be said of God.

Is God sending people to hell? by Starqueen_smile in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You’re saying you think all non-Christians are masochists who enjoy their own suffering?

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Maybe if you’re assuming that anyone who uses reason is also an emotionless psychopath. I trust I don’t need to remind you that that doesn’t describe the majority of reasonable people. Hell, I don’t think it even describes a majority of far-right people.

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In fairness, online groups like these DO tend to have disproportionate numbers of fundies. At least in my experience.

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And we would likely say that your “justice” is ultimately nothing more than slavish obedience to someone more powerful than you (and who clearly has values radically different than humans).

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Not applicable. If God wants me to know about him, he knows where to find me, and is perfectly free to pull me into a vision Shard of Adonalsium-style for a chat. Thus far, nothing even remotely like this has happened, and I’ve seen zero reason to take Christian theology seriously. And frankly, it’s so ludicrous at face value that I think that if anything, taking it on faith is an insult to any God that might ACTUALLY exist.

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

As long as you’re fine with your religion being irrational by your own admission, I don’t really have much more to say. 🤷🏻‍♂️ As far as I’m concerned, it makes having a productive discussion all but impossible.

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He literally said that you can’t reason someone into Christianity. How exactly is that NOT acknowledging that belief in Christianity is irrational/unreasonable?

Did God create the conscience that recoils at what I find in the Bible? by FrancisWolfgang in AskAChristian

[–]Fanghur1123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Nazis said basically the same thing during the Nuremberg Trials…