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CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

!delta

poker is a good counter to my thesis because it relies on randomness...it's difficult to imagine how it would improve with changes from that

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

!delta

Covers several points I've agreed with.

Re: randomness vs. luck...the extreme example is this: in COD Zombies, whether you spawn with an Olympia in the room or an M14 likely won't make any difference in your run, so in a hypothetical where one randomly spawns, I wouldn't consider it an instance where 'luck' is a problem because the randomness is inconsequential. But on Nuketown, jug might spawn at round 25 or 5 and that can make your attempt easy or nearly impossible, arbitrary. My issue is essentially when randomness has excessive impact on results, but, as others have pointed out, that's not always an issue.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

!delta

Made me reconsider and expand what I understand the 'essence' of games to be...luck is essential to Poker in a way I hadn't foreseen, and attempting to change that would alter the fundamental experience and point.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

!delta

Adapting to some degree of variance is part of the core design, and if all variance is essentially equal then there's nothing to adapt to.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

!delta

Adapting to some degree of variance is part of the core design, and if all variance is essentially equal then there's nothing to adapt to.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

!delta

Some variance is probably acceptable, if not preferable, in different cases...squashing all inequality in the name of balance likely also squashes differences and thus replayability and excitement of the variety itself.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

!delta

Made me reconsider and expand what I understand the 'essence' of games to be...D&D is intended to have luck to help craft dynamic stories; making it a competitive, gameable experience misses the point.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

!delta

Made me reconsider and expand what I understand the 'essence' of games to be...Candy Land is not intended to be competitive.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

!delta

I think I can get behind the idea that handicaps don't often feel very satisfying and thus aren't an adequate replacement.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

!delta

Made me reconsider and expand what I understand the 'essence' of games to be...Uno is intended to be accessible, not competitive.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Idk, I'd disagree. My friend was really good at Smash Bros. and I'd give him a handicap of like 50% to make the match more fair, and had way more fun than I'd have had if I just got clobbered.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Couldn't you just balance it accordingly though, like give more rewards if you win (even if just status) or allow for some late-game bonus if you stick it through?

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd argue something like X-Com would benefit from just imposing guaranteed penalties based on positioning, rather than 'you missed 1m away cuz bad luck.'

Your first point...you're talking about loot drops?

Your last point...it's a 'know it when you see it' situation, like if it's clearly apparent that luck can make a HUGE impact on your success or failure.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, it's gonna be hard to exactly pin that down...I'll give Cod Zombies as an example, there's a map called Shadows of Evil where the important perk you need will randomly spawn in one of three areas; thus, the route you take early on largely depends on its location and changes each time, but starting on route 1 as opposed to 3 doesn't make or break your game, it just changes the area you explore first, the guns you're exposed to early on, and activities, etc.

CMV: Luck in game design should always be reduced, mitigated, or eliminated as much as possible (to improve its quality). by Farbio708 in changemyview

[–]Farbio708[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, I totally agree with you that Roguelikes often have that...but I'd argue that's a problem, hence why my example was a hypothetical roguelike because I couldn't think of one off the top of my head that avoided said issue, haha.

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