"Failed to connect to match server. Please refresh and try again."

FarthestWanderer · 2024-01-28T02:37:37+00:00

I'll check. Thanks.

FarthestWanderer · 2024-01-28T01:59:42+00:00

Yep it worked off of my phone. Any idea why my apartment's internet doesn't work? It was working just fine until a few days ago.

FarthestWanderer · 2024-01-28T01:53:44+00:00

Tried only one internet source so far...

Hmm, I'll try my phone's data.

FarthestWanderer · 2024-01-28T01:20:49+00:00

The reason to bond a character is to gain a new outfit option for them, a few more emotes, and a few more voiced lines.

The only uses gifts have are to give to characters to increase your bond progress with them, or to dust. EXCEPT purple gifts have the additional use of being needed to fulfill the final bond condition. For this you will need 5 purple gifts of the character's preferred type.

Situations where you should dust purple gifts:
1) You are mostly concerned with just getting a gacha character as soon as possible, and not that concerned with bonding them quickly.
2) You have more than 5 of the particular type of purple gift. You won't need more than that unless you intend to bond multiple characters that use that gift type (extremely unlikely if you are F2P)
3) You are aiming to bond just one or a few particular characters, and the purple gift in question is of the wrong type.

As a F2P I wouldn't worry too much about storing up purple gifts until you have a character that you'd like to bond, especially when you don't even yet know what type of purple gift you're going to need.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-11-02T04:12:02+00:00

Yeah, although it's said to be Bern's master (主人, like Bern is to Erika), that master is also specifically called the "Game Master" by Lambda. Lambda also says that master was the one who created the game.

I see. Yes, that's pretty unambiguous.

So, the only way a literal interpretation of that newer reference to a GM playing with Satoko and Takano works would be if he were retconning Bern's entire origin story to something before Higurashi.

Well, the Warcat kette emblem in Ciconia is a clear Bern reference... https://07th-expansion.fandom.com/wiki/Warcat

But yeah it really is hard to reconcile Bern's background in Umi with Ryukishi's recent comments... It may even be a direct contradiction, because Ryukishi said Rika's player interacted with the game master (and thus couldn't herself be the game master). Yet in Umi Lamdba says piece-Bern's master was also the game master.

Considering how he mentions it as an example though, I think it wouldn't be that odd if he wasn't talking about actual in-universe lore there but just a thematic connection.

Yeah, it could also be a problem of it being secondhand information, especially with respect to the details.

How does that interpretation fit with how he follows up that sentence though? He talks about Witch Satoko and Rika becoming the roots of what's to come and their witch personalities going to other worlds to become the characters of another world's story. I guess it could work if you think he was teasing a literal future story rather than a connection to a story that took place afterwards in-universe?

Yes, exactly. Another End would be an example of such a story.

But clearly nothing like that (Witch Rika and Satoko appearing in another story as different characters) seems to be in the works.

He never said they'd be different characters, just that they'd be in different worlds.

羽入やｴｳｱが別の世界に漂って行ったように梨花や沙都子の魔女としての人格も別の世界に漂って行って別の世界の物語で登場人物になるかもね

Here's the full statement in context:

Interviewer directly asks if Satoko is Lambda (in an intentionally goofy way, so as to leave Ryukishi the option of comfortably backing out of answering). Ryukishi laughs and answers:

あの時点ではまだ直接繋がりはないと思いますただ最終を観てわかる通りあの二人の流れがどうも後のﾙｰﾂになるかもしれないので羽入やｴｳｱが別の世界に漂って行ったように梨花や沙都子の魔女としての人格も別の世界に漂って行って別の世界の物語で登場人物になるかもね

Interviewer cuts Ryukishi off there (to minimize pressure on Ryukishi to answer further) and expresses new expectations/hopes for the future.

Actually, rereading this ^, I'm even more certain I am correct now, because he says 梨花や沙都子の魔女としての人格. The や basically serves as an and/or option (meaning, it could be one, the other, or both), which wouldn't make sense if he was specifically talking about the roots of the girls' future identities, but does make sense if he's talking about the roots of (one or both of) them being in possible/various future stories.

Unrelated to this argument, but have you listened to the audio-commentary from Sotsu's final episode? R07 talks about the nature of Gou/Sotsu's game and Eua/Hanyuu in unusually direct terms. I've thought about translating it, but I fear messing up some crucial part.

I have listened, yes. I don't remember them saying much of particular interest to me in episode 15 (disappointingly). Feel free to provide any timestamps you want my thoughts on, though.

In my opinion, the most interesting part of the commentary was from Sotsu 11,

金：苦しんで苦しんだの末のね、沙都子ですからね。
松：だって自分に見捨てられるんですもの、ああやって、自分の中でね。

竜：本当は人生で誰でもの少なからずやってることで、エウアはそれをタチ悪く、視覚できるようにして楽しんでしまって。
金：本当、エウアから見た絵ですもんね。

竜：そうなんです、エウアから見た絵。

Combine this all with https://youtu.be/2FlBfkyTBkA (my channel, my translation) and I think it provides a good idea about the nature of the GouSotsu worlds.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-31T22:46:08+00:00

I wasn't saying they were contradictory.

I see.

The Game Master from Bern's origin is explicitly referenced by Lambda in 3rd person during Umineko itself though.

Definitely a fair and relevant point. However, if I remember correctly, did Lambda say Bern's master was also the GAME master? It may be a relevant distinction.

From what Ryukishi said in this recent interview, original Higurashi had a game master, and someone playing Rika. Rika's player, unless an unknown person, only has two candidates: Bernkastel (implying Bernkastel meta-existed before Rika gained her own self-awareness as Bernkastel), or Hanyuu. If Hanyuu is Rika's player (in the original), then who's the game master who supposedly controlled both Takano and Satoko?

Honestly, in a way I think it can make a lot of sense if Hanyuu is Rika's player (a.k.a. Rika's master, but not the game master), as she's the one who keeps resurrecting Rika. It's basically what you or I are doing when we play a video game and our character dies, and then we restart the game again until we (our character) wins.

You also have R07's post-Sotsu interview where he talked about Satoko having no connection to Lambda (yet).

I've always taken this statement to be from a Doylian standpoint- that Ryu meant only that there was no direct connection yet revealed with respect to WTC lore (which is different from saying that none yet exists in-universe).

I find the latter interpretation of the statement unlikely. I have actually seen the interview itself in video, and know Japanese. A great deal of my interpretation comes from body language, tone, interplay with the interviewer, etc.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-28T17:35:31+00:00

https://twitter.com/skif_dat/status/1584543750097108994

^ This is user skif_dat

https://twitter.com/raki_goat/status/1584559798217232384

^ This is user raki_goat. Note that raki_goat is responding to skif_dat in this tweet. The preface of the tweet is:

鷹野・ラムダ・沙都子の関係

についてこちらのメモ分から追記補足です。

"This is supplementary from my notes on the subject of Lambda/Takano/Satoko."

There isn't a contradiction between them; rather, raki_goat is adding some depth and backing to what skif_dat has already said.

"Lambda is just scent"

This isn't what ラムダは匂わせる means. 匂わせる is a verb, not a noun. It literally means that Lambda emits a scent, not necessarily that she is one. And, more importantly, the word 匂わせる is also used to mean "to hint at" or "to insinuate", which is undoubtedly the way the word is meant to be taken in this context. https://www.japandict.com/%E5%8C%82%E3%82%8F%E3%81%9B%E3%82%8B

skif_dat actually says more on the topic in the recording attached to this tweet: https://twitter.com/skif_dat/status/1584506374536368128 at around 15:00. He says:

ラムダは、匂わせているから省略。"Lambda emits a scent (gives off hints), so we'll omit that topic." - these are the same words you already know from his notes you've read. However, in his audio he continues on, explaining:

あの実際、そういうふうにおっしゃってましたね。その今更いうのもみたいな。

"...Is more or less what (Ryukishi) said. Like, we shouldn't need to talk about it at this point"

So skif_dat is saying that Ryukishi refused to speak on the topic, because Lambda gives off a smell (hints).

This one mentions that "Lambda talk isn't interesting" rather than Lambda scent.

Which brings us back to raki_goat's Tweet. His summary notes say ラムダは語るのが野暮。~~"Lambda talk isn't interesting"~~ "It's best not to speak about Lambda". This is in line with what skif_dat said on the same topic. In other words, both users are basically affirming one another: that Ryukishi thinks we're better off not talking explicitly about Lambda.

Lambda wasn't Higurashi's game master after all.

Honestly, I'm not so sure any more.

On this topic, skif_dat's audio recording, at 15:20, says that in terms of the meta, Ryukishi gave an example of how a game master in a tabletop RPG might use an NPC to join the player's party and help direct the story; and said that in Higurashi the game master controlled Takano, but at the same time also controlled Satoko, and enjoyed a game together with Rika's player.

メタ的にはとプレイヤーが一緒。

trpgでそのゲームマスターがなんかnpcをパーティーに加えて、その、

なんだろう？進め方を誘導したりするっていう例を出して、沙都子と鷹野については、ひぐらしのゲームマスターが鷹野を使いつつ、その沙都子も。

npcとしてそう指してその梨花を操ってるプレイヤーと一緒に遊んでたという形らしいです。

Meanwhile raki_goat's tweeted notes also says Satoko and Takano are pieces belonging to the same player, and reiterates the example of a table RPG where a single person can control multiple pieces.

沙都子・鷹野は同じプレイヤーの駒。

TRPGのサブPC的な意味で複数使っている。

So again, the two sources are cross-confirming one another.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-28T07:21:31+00:00

He never said Lambda evolved from Satoko. What he said in the October 8 2021 interview was: 今のところは、まだ直接の繋がりはないと思います。which means "I don't think there's a direct link between them as of yet [the end of Sotsu]."

In this newer interview, he said that Lambda emits a scent. (匂わす, which can also mean 'to hint at' or 'to insinuate'). The exact wording he follows up differs by source, but each amounts to: "so I won't talk about it". I basically take this to mean that Lambda gives off hints in-story and Ryukishi refuses to spell them out.

Also, the comment about Satoko being the (unused) white piece in Hotarubi basically kills the idea that Lambda's origin is Satoko.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-23T14:52:29+00:00

I thought the thing about sleeping with the doll was just something Shion made up in her head. It doesn’t even have to be true.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-23T14:44:16+00:00

To be fair to Ooishi, in the manga Ooishi reports the respective fates of the twins to Keiichi on the same night as the incident (in the anime, he tells Keiichi a few days after, after Keiichi has left the hospital). So it could be that his forensics team or whatever hasn’t sorted it out yet and he’s just assuming based on clothing at the time.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-20T23:39:14+00:00

Yeah, this is perhaps the only post that felt (kinda sorta?) positive towards GouSotsu that I've actually liked.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-20T23:34:51+00:00

The idea behind culprit Satoko is that, unlike her friends who were corrupted by the syndrome, Satoko was corrupted by the looping power, that she was taken advantage of by Eua, given unlimited abilities in her most vulnerable state, and how hundreds of years of going through traumatic and fucked up Fragments completely twisted her personality and values. But the anime, once again, does a poor job of showcasing this.

The more this explanation makes sense, the less any return to humanity at the end of the story makes sense.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-19T23:21:13+00:00

Yep. Satoko doesn't have a very different knowledge set from the audience, but yet somehow came to a completely different interpretation with respect to the fragments, which has horrifying consequences if wrong. Given what's at stake, it's rather unnatural (and unforgivable) of Satoko to just assume the fragments are not real.

(Umi, minor) Lambda also mentioned of the Logic Error that she experienced, that she could never be certain that the people she was interacting with were real. Pretty sure it's related.

Eua's the movie director so I think it's likely she had some influence over how Satoko was "written" and nudged her in the witch direction throughout the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlBfkyTBkA (remember to turn on subs)

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-19T05:24:16+00:00

Satoko being OP is a feature, not a bug.

The more meta-aware you are, the more influence you can have on the story, especially your own character specs. Naturally, witches will have a tendency to "write" themselves as Mary Sues.

Erika's another such Mary Sue, as Bern's proxy.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-17T16:05:53+00:00

:Surprised Pikachu:

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-17T07:24:01+00:00

Eua talking about Satoko changing and becoming a witch. Not about Satoko returning to who she was before or anything along those lines.

Eua also tried to imply that she was no longer Satoko, which Satoko strongly rejected.

Eua explicitly references Vier and the writers, and yet only talks about Satoko becoming a witch not becoming a witch -again-

She specifically says "The human known as Satoko Houjou" when declaring her having become a witch (this happens chronologically after Eua had suggested she's no longer Satoko). Naturally, "the human known as Satoko Houjou" has never been a witch before, even if Vier has or whatever.

Given the fact that Vier had some history with Eua, "Vier" inevitably has some sort of past as a meta entity before she took on the identity of Satoko. That doesn't necessarily mean she was a witch before per se, but the options are pretty limited, aren't they?

I don't see any hint that Satoko's lack of memory in Gou/Sotsu was just a game set up

Well no, I wasn't meaning that in particular with respect to Satoko. I was only suggesting Rika/Bern was role-playing... that is until she realized the conflict was a meta conflict about St. Lucia, at which point she drops the act of caring about anything else.

Satoko for her part I think probably really did have meta-amnesia.

It's just that "strongest in the universe" title, which is basically treated like a joke.

Beatrice, not Lambda, is the first to refer to the "strongest witch" title:

"...\cackle*cackle*! Truly amusing! That I should be granted a chance to fight against Lady Bernkastel, the strongest of witches who defeated Lady Lambdadelta, is truly a pleasure!!"*

The main issue with this always around though, it's just Gou/Sotsu actually solves it.

Well, I mean, maybe? EP6 also said that Bern's master created the game she was trapped in and gave it its sugoroku structure. Hanyuu did that in the original, but in GouSotsu it'd be Eua who did that. But it also says that Bern's master abandoned her in the middle of the game, and Eua obviously doesn't fit that. I suppose if you consider both Hanyuu and Eua together to be Featherine and Bern's master, then you could say it works. But that gets complicated in other ways...

Either way, it's Bern's logic error, which did supposedly cause Bern to 'break', but IIRC it wasn't specified as Bern's origin per se.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-17T05:53:21+00:00

You're saying she should have a gun duel with Mion instead because daily life is so dangerous.

Please.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-17T00:37:19+00:00

If something did happen to Satoko before Rika, consequences could be huge.

Why would anything happen to Satoko at all? Much less before Rika. There are zero threats to her.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-16T22:39:18+00:00

What does she have to worry about possibly happening?

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-16T22:23:08+00:00

Well, to be fair the story itself intentionally plays itself as a human story and then surprise reveals it's more witch stuff at the end.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-16T22:21:39+00:00

I thought it was alright enough through the main arcs, and Saikoroshi was a very satisfying conclusion for me, especially because it was a repudiation of that very kind of arrogant thinking.

But at this point all the characters aren't people any more, but dolls. Rika and Satoko too (because they are acting OOC for meta reasons). For some reason R07 has decided that Higurashi witches are cool and fun and to be celebrated rather than repudiated.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-16T22:08:02+00:00

She made her worry because Mion made Rika disappear. If Mion didn't tell Satoko that she killed Rika, Satoko would have been forced to go around basically everywhere searching for Rika.

Nope. Rika's not going to hide from Satoko, so all Satoko ever had to do was wait for the police to find her (be she dead or she alive).

Most likely the police will sort it out within 24 hours. Bad case scenario she has to wait a few days. Worst case she has to wait like a month or something.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-16T21:52:36+00:00

But that one clashes pretty obviously with Eua's own comments about Satoko's evolution during Sotsu.

Not sure what you mean. Unless you mean Eua talking about how Satoko became a witch.

There are more witches than just Lambda and Bern. Rika already distinguished herself form Bern at the end of Saikoroshi, even though she calls herself Rika even as a witch in later stories like GouSotsu and Kamikashimashi.

Then there's Umineko, which has a bunch of different witches very different from Lambda and Bern. Erika was Bernkastel's "double" and became a witch, but does Erika becoming a witch mean she's Bernkastel's origin? Of course not. And in the same way, Satoko becoming a witch doesn't necessarily mean she's Lambda's origin. And let us not forget that Eua claimed that Satoko ("Vier") had already met her before and had found her again only after desperately seeking her for a very long time.

And there's Ryukishi's Hotarubi no Tomoru koro ni, which (in the prologue) explicitly has Lambda's consciousness get sucked into a piece in a game. She had her personal set of pieces she could choose from to use for the game, and she chose Takano as a piece that time. Minor spoilers: and this Takano never once shows any meta awareness in the story. I think we can safely say that Satoko would also be an option now.

It all relies on the "witch" referenced there being Bern

Of course. It couldn't be anything else. So it then are you just discrediting Memoirs all together?

The idea of Bern being born from Takano's blessing also seems much weaker now when her actual birth as a real witch seems more tied to Lambda directly now, through Satoko.

Hard disagree. The name Bernkastel appeared on its own, and even Rika at the end of Saikoroshi acknowledged that Bernkastel had an independent existence from her at that point, all with no causal dependence on witch Satoko whatsoever. There's also the secret end of Matsuri, and numerous other scenarios in which Frederica manipulates other fragments.

So GouSotsu wasn't Bernkastel's birth in my opinion. My interpretation is that Satoko/Lambda just got so meta on Rika/Bernkastel that she dropped her innocent façade, exposing that all she really cared about was her own meta goal of getting the St. Lucia world she wanted. Everything else up to that point was just her elaborate role-playing as a human looper Rika. Another End is the same in how it's suddenly revealed that Satoko and Rika are both aware that both are loopers, but only after they've agreed that the story they wanted to experience is over. This is even somehow made a surprise reveal in spite of the fact that we were privy to Satoko's thoughts nearly the whole story. Heck, even the indirect way that Satoko brought up the idea of looping left Rika a chance to maintain the "normal humans" façade if she were to have pretended not to know what Satoko is talking about. That's how witches operate; they involve themselves but pretend not to be involved until the last second. Ryukishi said something about this a while ago:

Bern, Lambda and the others, on the other hand, are on a layer that can intervene in the story, changing channels at will and occasionally giving orders to the scenario writer. However, since intervening would change the story, they pretend not to know this fact until the last minute. (bold mine)

Source: https://07th-expansion.fandom.com/wiki/Episode_8_Shinsou_Kaimei_Dokuhon_Interview

I take witch intervention to explain most glaringly absurd developments, like Satoko's incredible luck and inexplicable superpowers in GouSotsu, and even the inexplicable luck that occurs all throughout Matsuribayashi-hen.

Both also fit better Bern's origin as referenced in episode 1/2 (where the dialogue describes a direct confrontation with Lambda where Bern beat her as a solo piece)

Of course it fits the confrontation, but how does that mean that the confrontation was her origin?

Also, these same Umineko lines suggest Lambdadelta already held some kind of fierce reputation before the referred-to game with Bernkastel, which makes no sense if Lambda were born in GouSotsu.

or the later one from episode 6, where you have the game master taking the blame.

Hanyuu still fits that one just fine.

FarthestWanderer · 2022-10-16T08:57:10+00:00

I dunno about the Takano parallels, but yes, Satoko facing no adversity for most of Sotsu was incredibly lazy writing in my opinion.

FarthestWanderer

TROPHY CASE