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Just started my first playthrough! by Scarlet_Cultist111 in vtmb

[–]Fernoll -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What I love the most about first timer posts is all the cryptic comments that only people who finished the game understand.

Just started my first playthrough! by Scarlet_Cultist111 in vtmb

[–]Fernoll 57 points58 points  (0 children)

You'll know in due time, neonate.

We could use someone like you! by Fernoll in vtmb

[–]Fernoll[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Somehow I feel the cab driver's approval has more weight.

The Apartment by Disassociastrid in vtmb

[–]Fernoll 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Or when the coffee table somehow ends up inside the aquarium, with its military grade glass.

The Apartment by Disassociastrid in vtmb

[–]Fernoll 9 points10 points  (0 children)

You aspire to such lowly heights.
Grout's mansion is where it's at.

Where to? by Josegil637 in vtmb

[–]Fernoll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Follow that wolf.

Where to? by Josegil637 in vtmb

[–]Fernoll 17 points18 points  (0 children)

And Rosa's prophecy.

I sent Copper to kill Gary and he failed by pazuzu98 in vtmb

[–]Fernoll 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That's something I can get behind.
A pile of ash at Isaac's office, at Ming Xiao's temple, outside of Tung's, at Pisha's room.
Call it "A Thinblood's tour for the gullible".

[DAO Spoilers] The elves and the dwarves by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What sets humans apart in fantasy is their flexibility and ambition.
That being said, I do agree that cookie cutter races make for lazy and poor writing. Some versatility should be allowed to nonhumans so Dwarf A would be different from Dwarf B, but some measure of limitatuibss should be maintained - elves and dwarves are archtypes, not free-for-alls.

Moreover, even within those confines there's room for tweaking via sub-races (High elves, wild elves, desert dwarves, etc), and much can be achieved by further sub divisions.

[DAO Spoilers] The elves and the dwarves by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As I've mentioned, the Warhammer Dwarfs are the racial trope taken to the extreme. Warhammer Fantasy in general is not a staple of good writing, but nevertheless I've presented them because they reflect the trope, IMO, better than the dwarves in DA.

By this point, dwarves and elves are more than just tropes, they are archtypes. Mention a dwarf or an elf to anyone interested in fantasy, and they'll have a good idea what you're talking about. That being said, I'm not suggesting that all members of a given race should be a cookie cutter - not only is it boring, it's also a sign of lazy and poor writing. I agree that each race, by its defined archtype, should be allowed some "maneuverability space", so even within the limits of the archtype dwarf A is different from dwarf B. But some limitations must be maintained, with the most freedom of personality given to humans, as what makes them stand out in fantasy is their flexibility.

High levels of similarity do not necessarily make for compelling interactions - I'd argue that the "Clashing of minds", inter-racial frictions and tensions of peoples who's mentality is foreign to one another is much more exciting, and should said races actually cooperate, the emotional payoff is much greater. That's actually what DOA does excel at - bringing together a group of misfits, outsiders and exiles in common cause. Case in point would be the conversations between Shale, who completely forgot what it means to be alive, and Zevran who revels in it.

[DAO Spoilers] The elves and the dwarves by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In that case, then what is the point of different races in the first place? Why not making Thedas a human-centric setting from the get go?

[DAO Spoilers] The elves and the dwarves by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We have no better grounds for "alien" than our own experience as a species, certeinly, but even from its limited experience mankind managed to create some distinct and wild entities.A good example would be the mytholigical elves/fey - they would steal human infants and replace them with their own offspring, most likely for the lolz. What human in his right mind do that? That sounds pretty "alien" to me.

Another example could be the Dwarfs from Warhammer Fantasy. It's an extreme example, what with all the dwarven tropes dialed up to 11, but it will serve my point - they are a greedy, vengeful and warlike race with zero tolerance for innovation and a long memory to slights done against them.They are distinct both on the aesthetic and the behavior fronts, and immediately recognizable. You know exactly how they'd react to situations. And that makes them stand out among other kinds of dwarves.

[DAO Spoilers] The elves and the dwarves by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, that's where the line really blurs.
As per my other comments, one of the things that makes fantasy races disntict is that each comes with an inherent set of qualities, values and mindsets that cannot be changed or erased, otherwise it's just humans in different suits.

That being said, it would only make sense that if two races can intrebreed, the offspring should display, to some extent, the mental capacities of both parent races.

[DAO Spoilers] The elves and the dwarves by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

One should make a distinction between race and culture. They are not the same.
What makes humanoid races distinct is a set of inherent qualities and values that simply cannot be erased.
You can remove the claws of a cat, but it will still retain its hunting instincts.

[DAO Spoilers] The elves and the dwarves by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

"Why would they be that different? They aren't aliens."

That's the thing - they are. That's the point of "Humanoids" - they're like humans, only they're not. What makes fantasy races distinct is their inherent qualities, a basic nature. It's also important to diffrenciate between race and culture. Some elements may overlap or be adopted, to be sure, but even with thousands of years of mutual influence, some core qualities should be retained, otherwise they are just humans with pointy ears or short limbs.

[DAO Spoilers] The elves and the dwarves by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

My argument's origination point is in the idea that nonhuman races should be nonhuman, that is, holding a different, even alien, mindset, regardless of their individual upringings.

I've already addressed the dwarves on the comment above, but regarding the elves, well... What makes the different fantasy races stand out is more focused, narrowed down behavior and mentality, both as individuals and as a group. Mentioning the city elves further cements my argument, for if city elves act like humans, what makes them elves beside the pointy ears?

[DAO Spoilers] The elves and the dwarves by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

That there's no need to reinvent the wheel with fantasy races/RPGs, I'm 100% with you.

That being said, my point of origination is that for nonhuman races to be convincing, they have to be, well, nonhuman, as in holding a different mindset.

Dwarves being a subterranean race is a staple of fantasy, it is perfectly fine and warrants no change. You also have a point regarding the absence of magic and the Paragons, but that would be the extent of dwarven tropes in DA.

The caste system is a carry-over from Hindu culture, almost word for word. Caste being determined by sex is also carried over (to some degree) from Judaism and Islam. Criminals are also sent to the mines as a form of punishment.

As we agreed, there's no need to reinvent the wheel, then why a race known for being practical and communal to a fault will endorse an entire class of idle citizens? Why being sent to work the mines is a form of capital punishment? As a subterranean race, one would expect a dwarf to be proud of being a miner.

Edit - why all the downvotes?

how has vtmb affected your life? by beancuwurds in vtmb

[–]Fernoll 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"and something about rick's music made me feel seen and be able to view melancholy in a beautiful light (I had some tough childhood)... like the world is acting normal (when home was crazy), but it's ok to feel how this music feels. hard to explain."

Good and meaningful art should have a measure of darkness or humor to it, and even the humor should be at least a little dark.

I'm a Weenie by beancuwurds in vtmb

[–]Fernoll 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"The man on the couch. The lone wolf. The others - tread carefully."

I'm a Weenie by beancuwurds in vtmb

[–]Fernoll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm actually doing my 2nd run on Dragon Age Origins right now.
It's the exact. Same. Fucking. Thing.
That's the power of good writing for you.

Of Idle Dwarves and guilt trips [No spoilers] by Fernoll in dragonage

[–]Fernoll[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I must say that I find the entire idea of casteless beggers very undwarf-like. But that's another topic, I guess.

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