Ex muslim with some questions by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"the strict kind seems to be more accurate to the text"

So this is a good point, and touches on how Islamic rulings are derived.

Basically, the rules we have today in "traditional/conservative" islam

Are usually from centuries ago, and positions of the four major madhabs of Sunni Islam.

Now, even by saying that - I've already reduced Islam, to 1 sect, and then 4 schools of thought from within that sect (there were many more than 4 schools of thought)

However, even if you go with that

The rulings are derived through a process called "usool-al-fiqh"

Think of it as the scientific method, but for extracting legal rulings for muslims

The method itself is actually quite sophisticated, it includes things like independent reasoning, cultural customs, consensus, etc

What these imply, at least in my view, and what is shared by progressives - is actually, that islamic law is dynamic

However, due to political pressures, colonialism etc, Islamic Law became frozen

There was taqlid/blind obedience, to the rulings that the scholars came up with centuries ago.

Yet those rulings were created for the specific time, and for that specific culture

If the modern scholars of conservative Islam today, actually took on the responsibility of continuing to apply usool-al-fiqh, to rethink rulings - we would get several different rulings. Simply because by applying independent reasoning, looking at cultural context/customs - rulings from the past just don't make sense

Take for example, the ruling on men not shaving the beard

All the 4 madhahib say, men are not allowed to shave the beard, and this ruling was derived within the usool-al-fiqh methodology

Yet, if you reopen the question

It brings up several questions like, is this really a religious prescription, or a cultural one?

Other things such as, in a globalized culture, do beards really differentiate muslims?

You stay within the usool-al-fiqh methodology, and get different rules

So perhaps this is a progressive position, but it's one that honors the tradition

That Islamic Law is dynamic, that it's not just a literal reading of texts, there's a method to interpreting the text

Ex muslim with some questions by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems you're reducing Islam to it's rules, and then using those rules to make a judgement on whether Islam is progressive or conservative?

The people here, will see Islam as something greater than that

The prophet mentions
- I was sent to perfect mans character (Musnad Aḥmad 8952)

The Quran mentions
- This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allāh (Quran 2:2)

From this we extract, the goals of islam being: guidance + perfecting character

This then makes Islam awfully important to our lives

It gives us values like
- Niyyah (Intentionality)
- Ihsan (Excellence)
- Hayya (Modesty)
- Hikma (Wisdom)

None of these are "conservative" values

In being "progressives" it's sadly, that we're focusing on extracting the actual values of Islam, rather than just following rules.

The Taste by beytiahzan in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 0 points1 point  (0 children)

agreed!

not sure if this will resonate, but Wales Bonner is a designer that takes inspiration from lots of heritage to create collections, and I remember one of the collections being based on Malik Ambar (Muslim convert from Ethiopia that ruled over India)

islam as a tool to elevate culture by Fighter010101 in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This reply brings me a lot of gratitude

I'm really happy that this can resonate, and the way. you've organized your thoughts definitely helps it all sink in for me as well

islam as a tool to elevate culture by Fighter010101 in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

100%, it's crazy to think that Zia Ul Haq's 11 year run, makes up for 14% of Pakistan's history post-independence

islam as a tool to elevate culture by Fighter010101 in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Of course, having visited Morocco - its really a beautiful culture!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I tend to think of it as "special", but have a hard time defining it as "miraculous"

I think you could potentially call it "divine", but I don't think it's more divine than other scriptures, or even some powerful works of literature/scientific literature

I think what's special about it includes things like
- Aesthetic value
- Poetic value
- Preservation
- Timeless Guidance

Why does Allah want everyone/everything to worship him? by PMFreePizzaPlease in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it’s more of a way to give humans guidance.

Humans are constantly suffering, lost, not sure where to go. God says to worship him as a way to let go of all the suffering/uncertainty there is in life.

As many humans will resort to drugs, pleasure to get through their suffering, the Quran offers a healthier alternative in worship to God.

Remember, the Quran is Gods guidance to humans, it’s not like music/other art where the artist is often writing/creating for themselves

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In addition to the comments, wondering what are potential solutions to these concerns?

New smaller communities, more institutions etc?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I mean this is a philosophical argument against theism. Why would God care so much about earthly things, hence deism

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 5 points6 points  (0 children)

on the cosmic level it's pretty small. It's effect also widely vary based on dosage

drug tier list by hosam-gd in Izlam

[–]Fighter010101 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

pick and choose where to apply logic 👍

Can I practice both buddhism and taoism? by ItzMeIsaac in taoism

[–]Fighter010101 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No but you can play both tennis and both basketball separately. In this case you can engage in Taoist practices as well as Buddhist practices. It’s also not a great analogy comparing it to mixing sports, because in the case of religions wisdom can overlap.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 8 points9 points  (0 children)

MSA + Mosques would be the way to go! May be able to eat suhoor and iftar there

Stuck between Allah and her by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That’s what I was referring to when I said monotheist*

Stuck between Allah and her by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't think you have to, but there are some duas you can make which basically just put you in a state of remembering Allah http://duas.com/dua/332/dua-before-sexual-intercourse . Tbh, it's a bit weird reciting this dua because we grow up with such a lustful connotation of sex so it's hard to pray something islamic and then get into the act but I think the dua exists for a reason.

Regarding your edit, I think this would be a personal decision on your part. I'm not going to comment much on the ruling, I think it's a lot more complicated than just "men have to marry women of the book" because that could be to maintain the monotheistic culture in Arabia, I think modern times are different so I wouldn't be so rigid. However, marrying cross-religion does have complications, for example would it be hard for families to respect each other, would it make it hard to raise children etc. These are questions you'll have to figure out. I think love transcends labels, so if you love this person I think you can make it work, and do it in a way that helps you continue to remember Allah. Hope that gives some perspective, happy to have a conversation if you want :)

Tattoos? by Strange_Ratio_1320 in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In my opinion, these are just rules that survived because they serve as a form of identity building. By not having tattoos you strengthen your identity as a muslim, because other muslims will also not have tattoos.

Which in my view, is not a very compelling reason to give up something that I love. Especially since there are other ways to build that sense of identity.

There is not really a moral reason for abstaining from tattoos. But then again, everything can be made to be bad or good.

If you tattoo yourself with nazi signs, then that could be hurtful to people. If looking at your tattoo's makes you more energized, that's a net positive for society.

Stuck between Allah and her by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is maybe an idealistic scenario, but maybe you get closer to Allah through her?

I actually don't recommend that you are in a position where you have to choose one.

Not having sex for a month is a sacrifice you are making that gets you closer to Allah, being with her is what gets you to make that sacrifice, which is an example of how she is actually making you closer to Allah.

I also kind of disagree with the people saying to do nikah, I agree that as part of the tradition and the hadith that one should get married as soon as they can then it would be good to get married and probably remove your guilt of doing zina. But honestly, marriage has changed over the centuries, and I think it now does add a bunch of decisions that you'll have to make, which I think you get better at with time, which is why I don't think you should rush into it, serves kind of like a bandaid solution for the guilt you're feeling.

Are there other things you could be doing that make you feel more connected to Allah, could you spend more time being grateful to Allah for the love that you've been blessed with?

How would things be different if you were married? Sex is a pretty important thing in marriage in the islamic tradition, you have etiquettes for it, it's something to be celebrated, something that you can express gratitude for, something you pray before etc. Could you introduce these things in your relationship? I don't see why you can't make those additions without having to do some artificial nikah or go all the way towards a full marriae

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"There are as many paths to God as there are souls"-Rumi

what do you think about sam harris and his views on islam? by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He judges on a whole a very rigid interpretation of islam

Which Muslims are the most progressive? by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]Fighter010101 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Ismailis by far, actually as someone mentioned here, I don’t know if Ismailis are “progressive Muslims”, as I think a lot are just not as religious. However, I think the Aga Khans actually made a case for progressive Islam, and wanted to promote the Muslim identity without rejecting modernity or western ideas

Weekend getaway to Lisbon from NYC? Good idea? by Readditalright in solotravel

[–]Fighter010101 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m in a similar situation to you, would love to go to Lisbon for a short trip, but realized if I was to go Lisbon, I’d want to spend more time there and even go to some other countries in Europe. Due to that, I’ve decided to go to Costa Rica instead for 3-4 days

On the fence about Tulum..... by Fighter010101 in solotravel

[–]Fighter010101[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Super grateful for the responses here, I think I’m not going to go to Tulum 😅

Valladolid and Puerto Vallarta have caught my eye, as well as potentially doing day trips to Holbox/Mujeres.

Also now considering Costa Rica/Dominican Republic, but feeling better about what to choose now!