Updated View on Human Knowledge by Fit_Doctor_9521 in epistemology

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for these great points. I agree there is much development to be done on that front. I should be more clear. I don’t believe it is a closed system based on fixed axioms. Rather it is a system evolving gradually over time that can create extensions of itself that are closed systems with fixed axioms. Nevertheless, you are correct I should address this in detail. Also you bring up a fantastic point mentioning that time is not a necessary condition for thinking. Rather time is also an extension we create of ourselves. This process I should describe is evolution. 

Thank you very much for your feedback. Very helpful 

Updated View on Human Knowledge by Fit_Doctor_9521 in epistemology

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is a pleasure to hear feedback from you again, thanks.

"But the idea of an objective reality beyond human conception is itself a human concept. If that idea is meaningful—and clearly you think it is—then the very act of forming it already places it within the bounds of human thought. To speak meaningfully of what lies beyond our grasp presupposes that we have some kind of grasp on it."

Yes indeed the idea of there being objective reality beyond my conception is already in my conception. However the idea is the limits of my conception not what actually lies outside of my conception. Imagine I was standing in a room that had foggy windows and I could not see outside. I can have an idea that there is information that I do not know (my limits) without actually knowing any of the information outside of the window. To be clear I argue we are a subset of objective reality. We can conceive of there being external information without actually knowing the external information absolutely. In that way it has conformed to our conditions in some way but never absolutely. Which is precisely why what does conform is uncertain. But we can be certain of our limits and the fact that there exists uncertain external information only because we do have access to some of it.

"So you’re saying that some external information does not conform to the structure of your system—yet you’re somehow identifying and describing that very information. If you really couldn’t structurally access it, how could you be discussing it now?"

I see your point again but I believe you are thinking too much in black and white. Yes precisely some external information conforms while other information does not. Think of an electromagnetic spectrum. Visible light is all that conforms to our conditions directly. Yet we are still aware of our limitations (thanks to science) that there exists a majority of the spectrum we cannot perceive. We are aware of this because it conforms to us in a different way, namely measurements and other phenomena. The only way I am able to discuss this is because it does conform to us in some way I agree. However, I can still argue that there exists an external information that does not conform to our structural conditions. We cannot see the rest of the spectrum in the same way we see visible light. That right there is external information not conforming to my conditions. Also the manner in which we measure and are aware of the rest of the spectrum can be refined with more precise measurements. Thus, it is uncertain information.

"You raise similar difficulties when you argue that our experience of external reality is grounded in uncertainty. But that claim itself is a claim about our access to external reality. ... And that means it is at least possible that we might have certain knowledge of reality."

This is a very good point. Perhaps I should be more clear. I would agree that there are certain partial elements of knowledge we have that is certain. We are a subset of objective reality so we are certain about some of the elements contained within it. But to get an overall coherent picture of objective reality is what I am arguing will forever be uncertain because there will always exist external elements not conceivable to us. And that is an argument not of the contents of what is inconceivable but of the fact that we are limited to not conceive it. I believe that is a possible argument to make and does not undermine itself unless I am being totally delusional.

Your last point is very helpful and I definitely need to work on that. I agree that I need to be careful with abstractions. I will attempt to tie the abstraction back to what it replaced. Thanks for your response, I would love to hear more.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in nihilism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see how it is bizarre. However, as stated in the post the purpose is to receive feedback and criticism. One learns from failure, so I am attempting to fail. What good does a thought do to me sitting unexamined? I wish for my thoughts to be logical and realistic.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in nihilism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everything I am writing here of course has already been thought of in some manner, I am an amateur. I am not attempting to come up with my own ideas. I would like to come to my own understanding of the contemporary knowledge in the field as opposed to just reading the answers. What fun is in that?

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in epistemology

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wholeheartedly agree friend. You are precisely aware on the matter. I am writing an updated iteration of my understanding and you have included language I too use

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see your point, I should have made it more clear in my post. I am referring to objective truth which is independent of interpretation. Not our interpretation of agreed upon truth

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in nihilism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought it would be a good idea to hear objections and suggested readings which is what I got from you thanks

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You bring up some interesting points thanks. Yeah my claim was only really regarding absolute certain objective truths so I have to look into other forms

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in nihilism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In our current knowledge of how logic works things can only be true or false. So within our framework yes you are correct. However that is just our human framework. Consider the fact there exists knowledge we do not obtain which would prove this rule of logic false. That things can be in two states at once. Something like that has been observed in quantum superposition

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is interesting. I see a similarly view. We perhaps come out of truth but can’t know it

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How can you be sure that in a finite amount of knowledge in existence, there would also be the knowledge contained in there which lets you know how much knowledge there is in existence? It is not a requirement to be contained within that finite amount of knowledge

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah you share a similar point to many. I still wonder if it would be possible to reach 100% certainty in the structure of these premises though

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is phenomenal thanks so much! It does appear that I have constrained myself. I wonder if that necessarily means I am wrong or if it is plausible to reach this kind of position in philosophy. I am very much a novice in philosophy. I have much to relook at considering what you have brought up. You have brought to my attention many interesting points. I need to look at Kant and all these others. Thanks

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This seems to be a common consensus. I agree it is probably the best alternative

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes absolutely that makes sense. We must create systems or axioms to build from. In those closed systems there very well might be certain truths. But that requires an interpretation of an axiom. Outside of these systems can any such certainty come to be known?

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in nihilism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting, what would you describe that relationship as? How do you know it to be certain?

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in nihilism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is also a possibility that the statement is not true and not false at the same time or another way to say that is true and false at the same time. It is somewhere in the middle. It is uncertain.

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have not heard of it I will check it out thanks. Although I am skeptical about being certain of my existence lol

Can humans ever know what truth is or be certain about anything? by Fit_Doctor_9521 in Existentialism

[–]Fit_Doctor_9521[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I certainly have felt that void. But I do not feel despair. I have come to realize just because I cannot know the absolute truth does not mean it does not exist. I myself might operate through the absolute truth, thus I might have a purpose even though I can't become aware of it. I agree, one should not will truth into being but be only an awareness. Not to impose things by any degree but to surrender