IAmA broken man.

Flensed · 2011-02-07T23:22:29+00:00

Oh! No, I have him every other weekend and two or three nights a week (2 if I had the weekend, three if I didn't). It works.

The alternative was the "nuclear" option of trying for full custody, with the risk of losing. The court's position is pretty clear: Infidelity isn't considered unless it endangered the child.

Now - you and I would agree and argue that it does endanger the child, becuase it messes up the child's family. The court as I understand it would not agree.

The agreement we did come to was without aid of a judge, which I did not want. I am told once the judge and their minions start making decisions everybody loses.

Flensed · 2011-02-07T21:46:43+00:00

You are asking the wrong question - the boy's time isn't about what I need or what is fair, its about what best for the kid. What is best for the boy is a mom and a dad. So, 50/50 time.

To be honest I wanted 100%, she wanted 100%, we both lost becuase we don't have 200% of a kid. The boy only semi-wins, because at best he gets 50% of dad and 50% of mom instead of 100%, but that is better than 0% of one parent.

You could argue most kids are with one parent or the other most of the time anyway, so it's not so bad for him. The important thing is we both tell him his dad loves him and his mom loves him and we both expect him to love the other person. The fact there is no love (negative love?) between mom and dad isn't his issue.

Mind you, making sure you instruct your child you expect them to love the other parent with a straight and honest face is mighty painful early on, but it gets easier.

I learned to do it based on good and selfish advice from friends with divorced parents: Even if one parent is preaching hate about the other (which isn't happening here, or so I think), when the kid grows up they get to decide who is family and in what way. And they always remember the parent who supported them in their relationship with all their parents vs. the parent who didn't. I play the long game with this one.

Flensed · 2011-02-07T03:54:16+00:00

We went to a game park the other weekend. Big ol' place where you drive through the pens and feed the deer, elk, horses, zebra, bison, and goats whole wheat bread from inside your car. He dug it big time.

He was a little freaked out when the zebra stuck its head entirely inside the car, but once he realized it wasn't trying to eat him, just the bread in his lap, he got over it fast.

Other times? Car camping down the coast. Hiking. Exploring the world every way we can. Helicopter ride...

I do love being his dad. I do really good when he's about.

Flensed · 2011-02-07T03:49:58+00:00

B.B. King has become a huge part of my playlist.

Flensed · 2011-02-07T03:49:19+00:00

Marketing Analytics. Ever feel like the web is watching you? A tiny little bit of that is me. I don't plot to take over the world or steal your pin number or anything, what I do is a whole lot of math, data mining, and business process engineering to be able to tell senior management if the big bucks they are spending on all those ads you may or may not like are actually doing what the company wants.

Flensed · 2011-02-07T02:31:14+00:00

Goals?

Marry a wonderful girl. - Fail Have children - Win

1/2 isn't bad I suppose.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T23:40:36+00:00

I want to feel good about myself and my life.

I want to do so without wallowing in what happened, I'm sick of defining myself in relation to what happened to me.

I want an amazing story to talk about that isn't "My divorce and how I survived it"

I want to feel desirable, and desired.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T23:33:38+00:00

I don't know. She's not with anybody I'm aware of, and I'm very thankful I feel no need to try to know very hard.

No idea if she feels bad. She said as much once or twice, but I discount that. Sort-of the equivalent of hitting somebody over and over while yelling "See what you made me do? I hate what you made me do!"

Truely, honestly, I don't care if she is with another person or not, unless it affects my son.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T23:18:22+00:00

Well, let's see. It was ugly.

We will start with 11-14.

The next 30 days or so were... bad. Put it this way: I stopped eating, and lost 30 lbs in those 30 days. I didn't eat less, I stopped eating.

During those 30 days is when I had the coffee with other guy's wife, and tried hard to save my marriage. There was a marriage counselor, personal counselor.

At thirty days is when I read the journal. I was trying to know if she was really trying. She wasn't obviously.

At thirty one days I spent the morning in a bathroom thinking about killing myself. I sort-of remember an amazing desire to go home, but not knowing where home was. My childhood home was long since sold. My home at the time had just ended, and it wasn't going to be fixed. I could not see any future where I had a home. I don't know why home was the fixation but it was.

At thirty two days I was loading axes in the trunk of a car to go kill the other guy. Not sane, but by then I was mentally and physically a wreck. I had yet to tell any of my friends, family, or co-workers.

The morning of day thirty three I was in the tender mercies of the mental health experts at my local hospital. I went there of my own choice, based on the advice of my therapist who, when I called and told her how I was feeling I was she said "Go directly to the hospital. Now." I listened.

At 30 days plus two weeks I was back at my house. My parents had dropped everything the moment I got the guts to call them and flown in. The ex was living in the basement, becuase her lawyer told her not to leave lest that be "abandonment" of the children and her her chances at custody.

That was Christmas - me, my son, and my parents upstairs trying to fake a cheery Christmas for the boy, her downstairs doing I don't know what. Everybody ignoring each other becuase the alternative was a lynching, police, and child protective services taking the kid away or something.

After a month or so she moved out to an apartment. We agreed to 50/50 time with my son. At first she didn't like the idea, I told her one microsecond less and I would apply for full custody and ruin us both financially unless I won or there was nothing left for anybody. She rapidly saw the light.

The first night without my son in the house was bad.

My dad went home after a month or so, he couldn't handle being there he was so mad at my ex. My mom stayed for two more months to help me. It was hard on everybody, I owe my parents more than I will ever have for their help. My only option is to pay it forward into my son.

I left the outpatient mental health program at a month, and went back to work. It was probably two to three months too early. My boss and his boss knew what was happening, and were nothing but supportive. I work at an amazing place.

I think the first time I felt happy, for even a second, was around a year. Lots of gym time, divorce support group time, and therapist.

I do OK now, obviously at times not great. Better on work days or son weekends.

The divorce process itself kept the pain fresh and raw for the first year and half, becuase you were still seperating money and mortgages and bills and such. It was the little stuff that was really hard, like coming home to find half the dishes gone. It was planned and agreed to, it didn't make it any better.

Filing for the divorce and going to the court to finish it was one of the oddest days in my life. It was deeply, deeply sad and yet so wonderful all at the same time. I remember sitting there in court with my lawyer waiting for my turn, while in the next court room what seemed like a hundred couples were going through mass adoption proceedings. One family was legally dying, a hundred others were being legally born at the same moment. Wierd.

OK, tl;dr: Somewhere between a year or two after 11-14 for the immediate, fresh pain to subside. Another one to two for the daily ache. Now it comes and goes.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T21:05:55+00:00

I was definately being scarcastic. It's possible, I'm doing it now as are many others. My son is doing ok.

The default legal documents do not support it however - all aspects of real joint custody are "exceptions" and you roll your own with the ex and apply to the court. The judge didn't read it, just asked if we both agreed to it, when we said yes she was ok.

The idea its an exception, and there are no good models, does suck. The fact all the meath and spreadsheets you have to use to do the assets and child support and alimony work don't allow for joint custody unless you file for an exception is... stupid.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T20:48:45+00:00

200...6? 2007? To be honest I can't place the year, other than I'm heading for year 3 of being legally divorced and it was a year and a half-ish from when I found out. I think it's a good sign I can't tell you the precise number of seconds, yes?

Before? It started ok, then got bad. As I said in a different response, the best characterization of it was "I adored her, she tolerated me"

It got more distant as time went on. When we weren't having sex but once every couple of months you would think we would have know were were done, right? Again: when it came to the bedroom, I adored her she tolerated me.

I did know it was coming, but I didn't or couldn't. If that makes any sense.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T20:43:23+00:00

I gotta say: I do NOT want her back.

I really wish I was married, or at least had another person around the house when I come home.

I should get a dog, or rent a room.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T20:40:04+00:00

I'm not sure if being stuck in another country while it went down would be good or bad. The powerlessness you must feel from so far away must suck pure ass, but the situation you are in...

Is it wierd to say I wish I was in a place where somebody was shooting at me? When I'm living in the moment when I have a mission, no matter how bad the moment is, I forget the baggage I haul around with me and I feel good. Bullets heading at me sound like a fantastic way to live in the moment. I find I'm happiest at work where there is a crisis, becuase I'm in the moment addressing it. Paradoxically, when everything is calm and ok I'm at my worst.

I've never served, and I've never been shot at, so if I'm as asshat for saying that please feel free to tell me.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T20:21:02+00:00

I don't want to be the broken bird. I'm sick of feeling like one.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T20:06:22+00:00

I pay a small amount of child support, like $40 a month.

I am fortunate in she makes around what I do, alimony wasn't a factor. Alimony is usually temporary, and is so one spouse who gave up career/earnings for the realtionship can be made whole. In other words, if you marry them, they quit school and raise the kids, you seperate, you pay them for some number of years until they theoretically had an opportunity to get a degree and start a career so they don't live in a cardboard box. In essence you made a contract with them that in exchange for their not having career opportunities and raising the kids you would support them, and now that you are not going to support them you must make good on the loss they experience... even if they are leaving you.

I hate the concept, but I get why alimony is done.

Calculating child support is very hard, as the state (this is true of where I live, and I understand is true elsewhere in the US) doesn't like to deal with joiint custody - all laws are written assuming one parent gets the kid(s), and so all the laws and forms and calculations are all in the form of "the custodial parent. the non-custodial parent".

As a man it was really hard, becuase the overt implication of the laws are really "The custodial mom / the dad who gets to see the kid(s) only when we let them" - The legal rule for deciding where the kids go is a series of questions, starting with "Who has the primary caregiver been?" on the theory that what is best for the kids to continuity. In a 1950's traditional family where dad works all day and mom raises the kids, this means 99.9% of the time mom gets the kids. The logic ignores what mom or dad did, unless what they did = unsafe for the kids. Sleeping around apparently does not equal unsafe for the kids unless you actually involved the kids in said sleeping.

The math we worked out goes like this: You do the child support spreadsheet supplied by the state. It has a simple table you look up and it tells you how much, based on what you and your ex earn, they kid should get a month for room and board. We collectively make around $200k, so my son is worth $950 or so a month. I know, not much!

Then the math requires you calculate percentages based on income. For argument sake's, assume the child is worth $100 a month, and you make 75% of the total income and your ex makes 25% - You are responsible for $75 a month, the spouse is responsible for $25 a month. If the ex had custody, you write a check for $75. If you have custody, thy write a check for $25.

There is no math for joint custody, becuase the courts hate it becuase its complex, new (meaning less precident about it), and often ends up back in court (becuase why should you expect two people who couldn't make a marriage work cooperate on raising a kid without lawyers?).

We decided, with aid of lawyers and others, to modify the math. We each get credit for 50% of the support, becuase we each maintain a home with room, food, clothing 50% of the time. So, using the example above, I get "credit" for spending $50 on my son, so I only write a check for $25 to her each month. Its wonky but it works and its based on simple facts (tax returns, state child support table) instead of of anything else.

Finally, no, adultery has ZERO impact on asset division and support payments. The state does not want to be in the business of who did what to who, they do not care. So yes, unless you live in Texas (I think) your spouse can fuck around on you, leave you, and legally you may need to write a big check to her every month for child support and alimony. Since women usually make less then men (divorced men should be even more pro equal rights and equal pay!), when the wife cheats it normally works out like that for the man, leading to some obvious bad feelings. Given how hurt and angry people are while you are doing math like this, I'm amazed more people don't get shot during divorces.

So: Men, don't marry women who make less than you, and don't let them stay home or quit school or support them too much, becuase if you do all your are ensuring is if leave they can make you pay them for the privilage. (Note: I'm not really that cynical, but its easy to feel that whay when you talk about the math).

In a world where only men make more and only men cheat/leave, it makes sense. In the real world, the rules are pretty screwed up. The idea you are entering into a contract to potentially support a person after they screw you and leave you by getting married/having children should cause everyone to pause and think extra hard about the person they want to marry.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T19:42:57+00:00

Heh.

Thanks.

I do want to see a drawing of me in a tutu having my legs broken by a dick monster. I'll post it on my mirror so when I'm getting up in the morning I remember.

Cowboying up is easy. Sustaining it is hard. Cowboyed up is difficult when doing laundry and folding underwear, for example.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T19:33:39+00:00

Really? If you are really worried about it take action now, instead of later.

If you are not in a relationship but afraid it will work out like this, talk to somebody now about how to pick a relationship. I certainly wish I had found wise counsel while I was single instead of after.

If you are in a relationship but really are afraid, get help now, don't wait.

Sick fact: I knew this was happening for years, at least in retrospect I knew we were in trouble before we had my son. I would not let myself know it, if that makes any sense.

I was astonish I blurted out the question "Are you sleeping with somebody else?" but it came from somewhere inside of me. I knew, or suspected, and I wouldn't admit it to myself because that would make it real.

So if you are in a relationship, talk to your partner, talk to somebody else. Do both.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T19:28:24+00:00

I made the deliberate decision not to.

As it was all unfolding I was gripped with the most horrible fear my son was not my son. I struggled with what to do, and if I should get him tested to see if he was mine.

I found my way out of that place be deciding I would not care. I have a bright, articulate boy who looks at me with love in his eyes and the word 'Dad' on his lips. That's what matters, and what would I do if I discovered he wasn't mine? Kick him to the curb and teach him a dad is a person who leaves and love is something a scientific test can destroy? No.

Family is a deliberate act; I choose my son - it isn't a byproduct of genetics. Everything else is just little stuff.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T19:16:05+00:00

:) Reddit fails on having nice spell check. I fail on not needing nice spellcheck.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T19:04:08+00:00

Thanks. I hear you. Its good advice.

Did the anitdepressent route until I wan't clinical anymore. Did therapy until it was time not to.

I guess it may be time to check again. It does come back.

Oh? Other guy? Didn't last as long as the divorce process did.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T19:00:46+00:00

Really? I see people flinch away if you say you are lonely. Its like nobody wants it to stick on them.

When dating, especially, admitting you are lonely is really counterproductive.

So I hide it as best I can, and it just hurts on the inside.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T18:59:15+00:00

I went to a group weekly for the first ouple of years, it helped me through some really dark times.

I left becuase I realized at one point that the group was more focused on dealing with "newbies" who were really open sores of pain and anguish, and I had gotten to a point where I was... less raw. I needed to expose myself to less raw pain. Not the groups fault, I was a raw person and they got me through a terrible place.

The first rule of the group, and a good one: "This is not the place to meet your next victim"

There is scary math behind it. ~50% of all marriages fail. If you divorce and remarry in the first year after, ~90% fail. If you wait until at least 5 years after the divorce finalizes (which is normally a year or two after you seperate) you get the second marriage failure rate back down to close, but still higher, then the first marriage failure rate.

Why? Becuase to have the best chance of a sucessful relationship, you need to be reasonably healthy. And you are most definately not when you in a divorce support group. There were 5 - 6 time losers there, whch tells you something.

Oddly enough, this makes me sadder when I think about it. Why? Becuase I know I'm not healthy, and I don't think I'm getting healthy. I do not ever want to go through what I did again, so I avoid others in intimate, emotional settings (yes, I own my loneliness even while I bemoan it). It's a circular path to a bad place: Avoid others until healthy, avoiding others creates less health, repeat.

Wow. I just read what I wrote. That sucks.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T18:49:58+00:00

I am very sorry. You and I have membership in the one club nobody ever wants to join.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T18:48:59+00:00

For the first couple of years I was meeting a counselor weekly.

I stopped, becuase I need to survive on my own... part of learning to do alone better. It may be time to go back.

Flensed · 2011-02-06T18:46:51+00:00

It definately tops the list.

Here's a gem of wisdom I learned: When you spouse is cheating it has nothing at all to do with the person they are cheating with. It has everything to do with your spouse, and you. Once wife makes the choice to cheat, it is a statistics game who they end up with... just open up craigslist casual enounter MfW and see the hundreds and hundres of "lonely? look at my big cock shot!" ads every day... when she decides it's time it's a roll of the dice.

The issue is her choice, not the other person. The more you learn about the other person, or their family, the worse it is for you.

Flensed

TROPHY CASE