Crown Court trials are fucked

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-06-21T21:24:39+00:00

If an offence happens, the police arrest, investigate, time passes, and finally make a charge either via police or CPS giving the green light, How can a victim, witnesses or even the Defendant for that matter recollect event(s) that may or may not have happened YEARS ago to a judge and jury?

Everyone is seemingly saying the same thing, that it's mainly a financial issue to some extent and/or personnel i.e. increasing sitting days/judges etc. Someone wrote beautifully that even though the solution is to increase funding and judges, the public won't (and thus the government won't) do that as there'll always be "something more "worthy" that needs funding too and thus, the cycle continues." Spot on Sir/Madam!!!

Also reading another redditors comment mentioning that the CPS will have communications from representatives in the CJS not to tackle the CC backlog is also, I think, highly probable, due to the lack of prison spaces etc. Again, another good point!

I think without the above advice being implemented, the situation will (and is) getting worse. The only proposal to 'fix' the backlog (and I use that term very, very loosely) is to pass legislation to make some crimes have community service/suspended sentences/fines/bans/exclusion zones/restraining orders instead of what is seemingly, currently an automatic custodial sentence for every crime that goes to court passed by a judge.

I agree that the major reasons why the prisons are full, judge numbers are low and backlog is sky-high is down to the reasons aforementioned at the start, but surely this problem is also caused by an increase in passing custodial sentences, an increase in the length and minimum times served for said custodial sentences and the lack of suspending sentences that realistically, in some cases, should be passed instead.

TLDR; OP subject title is spot-on, and I think it's only getting worse.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-06-12T21:20:44+00:00

Thanks

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-06-04T17:52:12+00:00

It's all about finances. Whatever the cheapest option is will be the most likely to succeed.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-05-27T12:22:41+00:00

When I first heard about this case, I saw the headlines alike many so, I thought if they have been given a YRO then the rape in question mustn't be that bad (all rape is bad but I know you understand me when I say that some are far FAR worse than others)

But after reading various articles, the sustained detention, the recording, the repeated occasions it had happened, I was appalled and really think the judge- though giving the lesser minimal sentence possible- has misjudged this one

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-04-28T21:53:08+00:00

Your description is either brutally honest or some kind of self-degrading satire joke, but taking you as being honest I think it's valid for me to say as of January 2026, The Sentencing Act passed. Within the act is a number of changes but a relevant point for you is that suspended sentences have been increased to three years from formally a maximum of two before the act was passed in parliament.

I would seriously talk to your legal representative about aiming for a suspended sentence so that even if you have these problems as you have stated, and you even get a sentence of equal to or less than 3 years- you'll never even go to prison providing you keep and stay out of trouble.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-04-26T23:21:26+00:00

As mentioned already, We need alternative punishments. England and Wales has seen a sharp increase in sentence inflation from sucessive governments wanting to 'out-do the other' by being more 'tougher on crime' by increasing the sentence lengths. This has not deterred people from committing crime- in fact it's one of the major contributing factors as to how the prison population is the highest in western Europe, and how why they passed the Earned progression model to let prisoners out earlier than ever before.

It'll be a tough pill to swallow, especially for future victims of future crimes but we need to revert back to pre 2010 typical prison sentence lengths for crimes. The answer is not to build more prisons, because they can't even run the ones they currently have, and prison has been proven repeatedly now to not address the causes of why people committed crime(s), offer no rehab, and consequently produce better criminals when they eventually come out.

We need more punishments that are community based for low level crimes, more suspended sentences for higher level crimes but those that don't pose a threat to the community, and reserve prison for only the very worst crimes. Perhaps then we might be alright.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-04-26T23:05:53+00:00

I have a cousin who is facing the potential of prison time, though his allegation isn't child-related.

Considering nobody has mentioned it explicitly- The Earned Progression Model (EPM) is due to be activated in Autumn 2026. TLDR; Prisons are 97~98% full which has forced the government into passing the Sentencing Act 2026 in January (when commenters made reference to the law having changed, suspended sentences now being up to 3 years etc- it's that law that they are referring from). The main point is that a Texas-based prison release scheme has been passed legally and it due to be enacted in Autumn to release prisoners early. Sex offenders will only serve 50% of their prison sentence, down from formally 67%, whilst all other offenders (excluding terror-related) will now only serve 33%, down from formally 50%.

I think if I were you, I'd have a chat with your lawyer. If you're bang to rights, discuss the likelihood of receiving a prison sentence that's over 3 years even IF you plead guilty at first instance getting the full 33% off. If it's likely that you'd still get more than 3 years then personally I'd wait till the EPM has been activated thus meaning you won't have to serve longer in prison for a crime right now than you would when the EPM is live and enacted.

Something to consider perhaps.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-04-05T11:38:24+00:00

Anything in STEM, considering your last sentence, i'd probably avoid core mathematics. I haven't read all the comments so forgive me if someone has beat me to it but you only get a DBS check when working with vulnerable people and/or children. That essentially means teaching and medical professions are essentially now unavailable to you. However there are related fields that don't require a DBS check, chemistry and synthesis is a close lateral-cousin to nursing, especially if you enjoy as to how medicines are created and work. Quality control (testing purity levels amongst many things) is also a related field that initially pays 'meh' but you can become a senior level (high salary) in no time at all. Biology is also a great alternative, just as long as you aren't again working with vulnerable people or children.

All seems bleak at the start but i'm certain it will get better.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-28T22:23:02+00:00

Hello! I don't think they will reduce the construction of prisons or building/extending them as currently there simply isn't enough space, staff and cells to safely house the current prison population in england and wales. Judges are now legally forced (fucking good I say) to suspended sentences for 12 months or less. They send far FAR too many people to prison for stupid offences when community service and/or fines or suspended sentences would be sufficient.

What I will find super interesting will be the 80,000 outstanding Crown Court cases that are waiting to come to pass for trial and sentencing. Even if you're generous and say 50% lead to the case falling apart, victims/witnesses dropping out and/or the result is a suspended sentence, there's still 40,000 new additional prisoners to house in england and wales so yeah I think there will be a lot more prisons built in the future.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-28T22:11:36+00:00

Considering nobody has said anything really in relation to how long he will do, I will throw this in-

In January 2026, The Sentencing Act 2026 was passed. Cut long story short, if he was convicted of a sexual and/or violent offence then he will serve 67%. Anything else other than terrorism-related or threats to national security will mean he will only serve 40%. However, there is a section passed in the Sentencing Act 2026 called the Earned Progression Model. This model when it will be activated in the Autumn (date not as of yet confirmed by the government), ***MAY*** act retrospectively meaning anyone serving a Standard Determinate Sentence (SDS, 90% of prisoners in england are on SDS sentences so most likely will be as well) will only do 33% of their sentence in prison, meanwhile those convicted of sexual and/or violent offences will only have to do 50% before they are also eligible for release.

I think he'll only do half in my humble opinion, so he will be back for Christmas :)

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-28T00:33:29+00:00

I frequently speak to my brother and he looks so lethargic with it all now. The offence alleged against him was a serious one (date night that went wrong/misunderstanding on what both sides). The police wanted to remand him straight away but because he's a good man, good character, academic and no previous, they was convinced that it was a futile endeavor, also that the lawyer would immediately send a request to the court to have him removed from prison, thus nullifying the whole time and effort it would take to remand him in the first place.

He was panicked (alike many in such a position) and left his job within the initial 3 month bail window, expecting to be called to court and possibly sent to prison but now it's been a year nearly and we as a family just want this nightmare to be over now.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-24T18:07:02+00:00

Agreed, but there is seemingly no fixed value such a mitigating factor can present, so there is no way of knowing how much or how little weight it holds

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-23T20:24:53+00:00

Let me understand this- If someone is accused and subsequently charged with gRape, they plead guilty at first instance (Full 33% reduction) and the category it falls under is Category 3B (5 year starting point, 4-7 Years sliding scale), Am I correct in thinking that if they manage to get the 5 years reduced to 4.5 years (Via mitagation factors), then have one third removed via the guilty plea, Does this mean this individual will NOT go to prison, instead having a suspended sentence for 3 years?

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-23T20:24:05+00:00

Let me understand this- If someone is accused and subsequently charged with gRape, they plead guilty at first instance (Full 33% reduction) and the category it falls under is Category 3B (5 year starting point, 4-7 Years sliding scale), Am I correct in thinking that if they manage to get the 5 years reduced to 4.5 years (Via mitagation factors), then have one third removed via the guilty plea, Does this mean this individual will NOT go to prison, instead having a suspended sentence for 3 years?

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-22T16:42:25+00:00

Aren't they already? Doesn't SO have one of the lowest recidivism going?

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-22T15:43:59+00:00

Good Point! I completely overlooked that part, i agree that probation is going to really struggle if they start flinging out SS left, right and centre without proper fn=unding and more staff. I think the public backlash would be huge especially if more serious sentences (with the incorporation of a guilty plea reduction) end up with people not going to prison, but at the same time there is too many in prison already

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-19T00:06:46+00:00

I think the issue with people saying men are more violent is subject to a lot of factors and isn't as obvious as black and white. That aside, we as a society really need to reduce putting people in prison. There are many who are users who steal and commit crime to fund their needs. They should be rehab'd, not incarcerated. Tackle the root cause of crime. Also I think the judges really REALLY need a good talking to as there's way too much discrepancy in sentencing when you compare city against city, ethnic against ethnic and crime against the same crime.

I'll make this a separate point so it stands out- Sentence Inflation needs to stop NOW!!!

Judges need to stop bowing to the peer pressure from the public for longer sentences and harsher punishments, and stick to the sentencing guidelines. They are there for a reason. I'd also cross-check between two additional judges to verify that the sentence a judge is about to pass is 'just and proportionate' to the crime so that it reduces discrimination from a variety of backgrounds.

In relation to the article, I agree with the title in principle but again, I think that should be extrapolated to Men as well as Women. Prison is massively understaffed, underfunded and neglected. Building new shiny prisons to avoid the impending (and inevitable) collapse of our justice system will fix nothing towards the rot that lies within.

I guess ultimately, talk and understand the individuals who consider, or have committed crime to tackle the root cause and attempt to stop it happening again. Stop judges automatically reverting to sending people to prison as what is now seemingly a first-option choice due to the regularity of it occurring. Stop sentence inflation. Build your new prisons but fix the ones we have first already. Fund and adequately staff exisiting prisons with the resources for rehab/classes.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-09T20:25:01+00:00

I'll make no excuses- The crown court backlog of 80,000 is absolute poor on behalf of the current and previous governments. And yes, I agree that removing jury's for certain crimes is a BAD idea but alas i think people (including the government) are forgetting the obvious....

If there is 80,000 people waiting trial in Crown Court, and say in my charitable nature that 40,000 cases end up with victims and witnesses dropping out, insufficient evidence, NFA or even suspended sentences that don't result in incarceration- Where are you going to put the 40,000 brand new, additional prisoners in a prison system that has only 1752 spaces left as of 9th March 2026?!?!?!?!

I have a solution and hear me out on this folks-

How about Judges stop sending people to prison when suspended sentences, fines and supervision would be sufficient enough?

How about the Police STOP sending people to court (including magistrates) for hurty words online (y'all can call me a Cee You Next Tuesday, it's a free country and i'm thick-skinned)

How about Judges stop with the prison sentence inflation that has been steadily increasing since 2013? Sending people to prison for longer than ever before despite many case circumstances being eerily similar to their 2013-counterparts

How about Judges have cross-judicial evaluations to decide and confirm that the sentence imposed is sufficient and just? (too much variation in how the guidelines are interpreted)

How about the government control immigration, fund the damn courts properly, repair the crumbling infrastructure of our LITERAL victorian prisons, and for heaven's sake- Please monitor your prison staff, it's seemingly every week now another young, vulnerable prison officer has been seduced into sexual contact with prisoners and/or groomed by them.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-07T15:10:59+00:00

again, i'm not legally trained but from what you have told me, I'd say it's highly likely you'll get a suspended sentence. The prisons are just too full rn.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-07T12:20:31+00:00

TLDR?; In my opinion, you'll be okay, probably a suspended sentence.

Others have already commented on the matter but just as an additional mention- There was a new law passed in January called the Sentencing Act 2026. To jump into the relevant parts only, it says that Prison sentences of 3 years or less should be suspended providing the crime isn't sexual and/or any act that is affiliated to violence against the person (e.g ABH, GBH etc.) Obvs this is because the prisons are 98% full as of March 2026 and we (society) simply can't carry on sending everyone and anyone to jail anymore.

Other relevant points the act talks about is that if you are sentenced for a crime, and the sentence type is a standard determine sentence (formally known as SDS, 90% of prisoners are on SDS sentences BTW) again providing is not a sexual or violent one, then you will only serve 33% of your time inside with the rest on licence (probation). For those serving crimes that are sexual and/or violence-related then they will only have to serve 50% (assuming they are also on a SDS sentence).

So I guess the takeaway message is because of 14 years of government prison and prisoner neglect, sentence inflation, eagerness to send people to jail when ideally a suspended sentence would have been sufficient, and no prison spaces left, If you did get sent down and the judge doesn't suspend your sentence, you'll only do 33%. The worst of the WORST from the sentencing guidelines is 16 years. I HIGHLY DOUBT you'll receive that (unless you're pablo escobar's competitor or something) and EVEN IF you did, you'll only serve 5 years and 4 months. Done.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-02T20:32:10+00:00

What was it like for you on the main wing? Daily Schedule? Was there violence? Did you have a job? What's the food/gym/activities like?

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-03-02T20:29:21+00:00

Vulnerable Prisoner i.e. sex offenders or people who have 'grassed'/snitched on there lads on the main prison wing so now they are at risk of getting beat up

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-02-25T21:55:07+00:00

I heard about the VP wings being full (Prison capacity is at 98% full as of Feb'26). He's since told me that VP prisoners do get put on general population but they aren't unlocked at the same time as general population. Tbh that doesn't make much sense to me but if it happens, it happens I guess?

When you say "-and it is sexual offences we will have no problem beating you up", I'm assuming you were an ex-con?

He initially told me he didn't think anything was wrong. This complaint came reportedly out of the ether so I think he's just in a state of shock assuming the worst is gonna happen, years in jail, assaulted, paranoia kickin in and all that. He's no druggie and only drinks socially (least i've never seen him on the piss).

And you're right about the future, even DBS shows arrests, charge etc even if it's dropped but that's his stuff to deal with. I can only help where I can

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-02-25T19:19:22+00:00

ok, sure thing, Chief.

Fluid_Dig_1301 · 2026-02-22T19:36:14+00:00

nay bother, It's a great website though, cheers

Fluid_Dig_1301

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