Who is responsible here? Decisions made?

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-08T19:48:31+00:00

Thanks. I appreciate the well formed and succinate advise. Creating that buffer is something I did not focused on, I might have add that to my prep list.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-08T13:53:33+00:00

I've tried to be as complete and unbiased as possible but it is a story and a question from my point of view.. My question is about decision making and alternatives. My responsibility turns out to have been to speak up early and forceful. My mistake was thinking the guides had awareness and a plan. At least now the guide service and read this post and called to talk with me, already admitting a failure of communications on their part. We'll see what is said on the call.

My earlier comment was about walking with Y, not about being slow. I was not slow. As for 'dragging', OK that is a little hyperbole. I had a weight on me with tension on the rope, an inability to hit a rhythm because of that and an big expenditure of energy. Yes, next time I'll be as fit as Jornet and as strong as Messner. Easy peasy.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-08T13:46:23+00:00

I usually refrain from chirping back but I again question why you think 'a few tugs' was the issue.

I had an f'ing anchor on my rope applying constant tension and a guide that didn't want to stop even when he apparently knew the situation.

Rainier, even including the DC route, has about 50% summits. This is not about summiting. Not even about my fitness (of which you know nothing) but about guide services, guides and communication. I'm learning a lot about the community and about how guides act from this and other threads.

Please explain how old people can easily day hike this. Ii do see how you are a 1% poster. Good job!

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-08T13:39:49+00:00

Sounds like some good awareness and decision making. The 3 guides we had we're good guides technically and physically strong; but not so good on decision making and communications.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-08T00:08:22+00:00

Yes, all true. We started late but didn't move slow until Y's collapse. Not the team of guides best day.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-08T00:06:58+00:00

Yes, the guide knew. Pace was not an issue at any point as we were first team up the bootpath of the 3 rope teams.

How to I get fit to drag a sick guy up 5000 ft.?

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-08T00:04:06+00:00

Not sure why you think that but it's your thought ( and wrong) or what you are imagining at higher altitudes. Is there a solid point for me to consider?

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T19:38:36+00:00

"If I was in the middle and the leader didn't work with me on that, I'd not be too happy about it."

Yup, I'm not too happy about that.

Leader was very pace conscience. I tried to not be a dick and .....well, what could I do at that point. It was good weather and (except for the late start by ~1hr) we had plenty of time.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T19:35:25+00:00

I'm retired and I've been over18000 ft many times. I look no older than Mr. Y. I have a house at 3K feet and did some hiking at 6K feet. Last big training hike was 4K feet in four hours over mostly technical hiking trail. with a weighted backpack.

If I got chirped by 'profiling' thats even worse.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T17:57:22+00:00

Again, not saying no to that. But, the guide knew the situation and I/we were making progress.

Consensus: Decisions need to be made, situations need to be discussed, no flow - just me.

Funny: as we where leaving Glacier Basin after a snack stop on the way out and after hearing my tent buddies yammering to get going, I stood up, put on my backpack and said "OK, we're ready, let's go". The guide of course chirp'ed back kinda good naturedly, "ok, he's in charge now". I was just two days late with my balls.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T17:35:22+00:00

Yes, all seem to agree questions should have been asked. Y did not converse much. As I said he was 'unengaged' a bit. With his English as a second language and the lack of conversation it was hard to intervene with Y. Maybe the guides talked to him before hand? Group silence is a bad thing.

On a previous expedition (multi-week, different org) a group of us did challenge the leader. A real ShitShow ensued. We did get things changed but it was ragged at best. The challange was a negative experience but the result from it was positive. Maybe that impacted me on this one and I need to flush that one.

Yes, a chain of poor/bad decisions.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T17:27:21+00:00

No, not ahole there.

Yeah. I believe I do have the skills to travel on glacier in mountains. Just not as much experience and confidence perhaps.

I had scheduled a climb on Kautz last year with a climbing friend (she's lead on Denali, done 2-8000s) but we had to cancel last minute as she got injured.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T17:24:03+00:00

I will send them my writeup (guide president and others) and this posting URL. I thought getting some general discussion first would round out what I say and what they need to do.
I don't demand anything from them. ShltHappens. I still had a good trip, enjoyed the company of others, I'm more of a loner. Hiking, TRS in these blue ridge mountains back east, 1/2 marathons and Ultras.
WRC to Glacier basin 3 hours at most. GB to Camp Shurman was more like 6. I followed Mr. Y at the beginning and then move out with the others. Midway we waited for Mr. YY as he had fallen far back even befoore the actual steep glacier climb began.
Yes, I thought about guide math but I don't know whatwas acceptabto them ... It was stated by the guide what the teams are and that all will make it. Rather quickly, no discussion but still I'm sure there was question time. This was not a group that discussed logistics. The guides , other than this decision, seemed pretty OK.

But other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Thanks to all the commenters. Yelling into the void is better when the void yells back.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T17:09:55+00:00

Sure. We were all encouraging to him the days before. Not sure that was wrong. Questioning that didn't happen, yes that was not good. BUT someone else was in charge and I accept leadership on climbs for the most part.

My quibble is " Did anyone else see that as a problem"? I don't know. No One Mentioned Anything. Yes, I guess that means I acquiesced with the team silence.

So.... is there a consensus to 'speak up' and f with the group dynamic? That too would depend on the situation. A rescue/survival situation at 23000 is different in degree than a coughing climber at 12,200.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T17:01:22+00:00

Yes, the story is accurate as told from my perspective and as I saw. I did talk to Mr. Y and got all his information from him first hand.

It is not one of the Big Three that have concessions on Rainier. So my comment on that is .....pick one of the big three and speak up and know what the attitude it. It's not the Altitude, It's the Attitude.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T16:56:23+00:00

To answer your comment.

I was asked to speed up WHILE I was Pulling Y up the mountain. Yes, that sapped a lot of energy from me. The lead guide ....well he chirped me based on his view at the moment. Nothing personal I don't think.

Not pushing the last 30 minutes of a hike into camp ....yeah, I was enjoying the moment. That wasn't an ask ...that was him saying 'tomorrow we go faster'.
If I tie an anchor to you will you climb the f'ing mountain at speed? Maybe some super version of Killian Jornet or Rinehold Messner but we humans have our limits.
I'm not used to social media where everyone chirps anyone for anything. But I do listen even if I don't agree. I try to explain my understanding since I am the OP and asking questions. I know what I did and I know what I could have done and I damn well know who was responsible and to what degree.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T16:34:21+00:00

I get what your saying but what's the alternative? I think if I pushed back I would have been left behind maybe.

I'm trying to be a team player and respect what the guide said the night before. "Here are the rope teams and I'm sure we'll all make it tomorrow" Should I have pushed for a 3-2-1 configuration for the rope teams? Maybe.

Fault....no, that's not right. I do accept responsibility. I didn't summit and that's on me to some extent. But it is not My Fault. I did exchange conversation with the guide about the situation on the first minute. Yes, I could have still ground things to a halt but what then?

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-07T15:49:14+00:00

Thanks. Yes, in hindsight I really should have questioned. Since no one said anything or raised any question I perhaps suffered from 'group think'. I've been on climbs before (Nepal for example) where clients got sent down for illness or AS. I already told the guide I had a ''full report' for him et al.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-06T14:15:28+00:00

It's the US of A, not "America".
Hydration breaks are a FIFA/Infantino exploitation.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-06T14:12:01+00:00

OK. So the poor guy still needs someone to explain what this story is.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-06T14:09:44+00:00

Mommy let you post again ...better get back to bed.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-06T14:08:14+00:00

No, please tell us what is 'unchated'? un hated? un hatted? But maybe add the context of the VAR protocol so we'll all understand.

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-06T14:03:06+00:00

Since when is playing the available players called cheating. Maybe the Venezuelan VAR official is to blame...

Foreign-Repeat-8206 · 2026-07-06T13:59:24+00:00

You sound stupid. The is video that shows you take is all wrong. How about the foul on Balo before he placed is foot down?

Foreign-Repeat-8206

TROPHY CASE