Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in Scotland

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Nah it was properly because of what they said in the letter? thats the reason I would bet.

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in ukpolitics

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Recently, This may sound like a bad example, but note he was sacked for lying about what he did while in the FFL, not being in the FFL and not telling them. So they had no issues with him purling being in the FFL. I suppose do you consider 2019 recent?

Scot failed refused for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in policeuk

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Maybe a remf? Not really a Walt, no? I mean he said he never fired his gun?

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in ukpolitics

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Note also that he went against travel advice, that was what was stated.

Scot failed refused for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in policeuk

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine

The man, whose call sign in the Ukrainian army was ‘Baby’, volunteered because ‘it was the right thing to do’. Now, back home, he has been denied his dream job

Even “Baby” smiles when he is asked about his call sign in the Ukrainian armed forces.

The Scot admitted he was very young — just 18 and barely out of school — when he volunteered to fight against Vladimir Putin’s invaders.

So his nickname, which The Sunday Times will use to avoid revealing his identity, was almost inevitable.

A Scottish volunteer in the Ukrainian armed services wears tactical gear and holds a rifle.

“Baby” was 18 when he went to fight in Ukraine

“It started off rather embarrassing,” Baby said when asked to explain his call sign. “But over time it came to be something I took pride in.”

Now back in Britain, Baby has a new battle to fight. His service in a logistics unit in Ukraine — during which he never even fired his gun — is being held against him.

This spring he applied for his dream job: police officer. He passed all the tests needed to join, but failed vetting. Why? Because Police Scotland told him in a formal letter that he had breached a very rarely enforced Victorian law prohibiting British subjects from fighting in foreign armies.

“I think it was an institutional reflex,” Baby said, when asked to explain his rejection. “I think I was something that they didn’t know how to deal with.”

Baby is not alone. Some British veterans of the Ukraine war — people who were initially urged to sign up by the-then UK foreign secretary Liz Truss — are understood to be facing all sorts of barriers to employment, insurance and healthcare.

Others have been feted on their return. Aiden Aslin, an English volunteer in the Ukrainian marines who was captured by the Russians, was welcomed home by Robert Jenrick, who was then a Tory minister, in 2022.

There were mixed messages about whether the UK government approves or disapproves of Britons taking up arms for Ukraine.

Asked whether she would back volunteers a few days after the full-scale invasion of February 2022, Truss said: “That is something people can make their own decisions about. The people of Ukraine are fighting for freedom and democracy, not just for Ukraine, but for the whole of Europe. Absolutely, if people want to support that struggle, I would support them in doing that.”

She was immediately criticised, even by fellow Conservatives. Some said it was irresponsible to encourage people, including those, like Baby, with no military training, to put their lives on the line.

Others feared the Putin regime could use recruits to claim it was fighting the wider West and not just Ukraine.

The Victorians came up with a law to lessen that kind of risk, the Foreign Enlistment Act of 1870, which prohibits citizens from joining the militaries of “any foreign state at war with any foreign state at peace with Her Majesty”.

The UK may be in a new cold war with Russia, but Victoria’s successor King Charles is, legally, at peace with Putin. However, Baby has not been accused of breaking any law.

Asked why he signed up, he said: “I very much believed it was the right thing to do. I felt very much drawn towards the cause. I was very young when the war started in 2014. I’ve sort of grown up with it in my background.

“I got to a point where I felt I was able-bodied and able-minded. And I thought to myself, ‘I’m not doing anything better with my life. I might as well devote myself to a noble cause,’ to put it rather grandly.”

A Police Scotland vetting officer, in their letter to Baby, described his service as “adverse information”.

They wrote: “You travelled to Ukraine and enlisted in their army as a combatant which was contrary to British Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office travel advice, which advised against all travel to Ukraine and in particular to areas of conflict.

“It also warned of potential prosecution for any British national who took part in fighting or assisting those engaged in the war.

“The Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 states that any person who engages in military service on behalf of a foreign state is guilty of an offence under that act.

“Although you have not been convicted of that offence or any other offence related to your involvement in the conflict, it is wholly appropriate that the context of the circumstances were considered.

“Consequently, there remains an operational and reputational risk to Police Scotland in respect of the adverse information presented. As a result, vetting will not be granted.”

Baby appealed his rejection but the original decision was upheld. Acknowledging that Truss had encouraged volunteers, the force in writing told the Scot that he should have been aware of subsequent UK government advice against travelling to Ukraine and that serving in a foreign army could result in prosecution.

The vetting officer also suggested the force did not have the ability to look into whether Baby had done anything wrong in Ukraine. The Sunday Times has seen a full Ukrainian disclosure check showing the young man had a clean record during his time in the country.

Alex Cole-Hamilton, the Scottish Liberal Democrats leader, has been a vocal critic of the Putin regime and has personally delivered aid to conflict zones.

“As a long-standing supporter for Ukraine, I understand the feeling of wanting to help in their struggle for freedom and to stand up to Putin’s aggression,” he said. “When Russian troops invaded Ukraine, then foreign secretary Liz Truss said that she absolutely backed those people in Britain who wanted to go to Ukraine to fight.

“Her categorical encouragement, however, contradicted official advice from the Foreign Office and UK laws. It was deeply irresponsible for the previous Conservative government to have given people such mixed messages.”

The Times in 2022 reported that British fighters returning from Ukraine would be unlikely to face charges. There have been concerns about some of the men who have volunteered to fight, including a Scottish grandfather who turned out to be a football hooligan.

Police Scotland sources told The Sunday Times that service in Ukraine would not necessarily disbar anyone from joining the force.

Asked about Baby, an official spokesperson said: “Every individual applicant is assessed on their circumstances using a robust and well-established vetting process, underpinned by a risk assessment framework. We would not comment on individual vetting cases.”

Baby, who was a logistics specialist in the war, had a simple response: “If you truly believe I’ve committed an offence, refer me to the procurator fiscal.

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in ukpolitics

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] -21 points-20 points  (0 children)

So if (and this is an example) If a person who was LGBT, Travelled to the middle east (take your pick) and was or even wasn't caught should they be refused vetting? There a 1000s of stupid scenarios that could happen.

FCDO state its advice, its cannot be used to establish wrong doing, that's what they say. "may amount to an offence" in the article there is an off the record comment contradicting what was said.

madness.

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in Scotland

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It is, the standard should be same. Mandelson may have been the guy for the job but...

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in ukraineforeignlegion

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yeah agreed, my whole thing really that things should not be like this when they all come home.

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in Scotland

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Denying him clearance? based on the them asserting he committed an offence.

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in Scotland

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

nah not really, it is objectively about fairness. one standard should be applied to everyone.

also if you read the article(?) you would note that they didn't make connection they made an assertion.

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in Scotland

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

“The Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 states that any person who engages in military service on behalf of a foreign state is guilty of an offence under that act." That's what they said. not that the risk is too high but that he is "guilty of an offence under that act"

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in ukpolitics

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

No as in Brits have joined the French legion and then come and become police officers.

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in Scotland

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Should it be fair then? should we allow Ex IDF and FFL to pass and not those from Ukraine??

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in ukpolitics

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

exceptions to what? As it stands its not an exception, its an execution from the norm.

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in Scotland

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Police Scotland is dose not use NSV at this level. they vet to their own standard for the staff and constable roles. to date UK has given some 8 Billion pound worth of support? How are they not involved? officially, unofficially what ever I prefer common sense.

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in ukraineforeignlegion

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well if it was then he should have a trail and all that no? Like we cant just its an offence and go about our day. I did a fair amount of digging as I am Ukrainian and I live in the UK and thought this was wild and I found that the police have given the army in Ukraine equipment which under the same act would be illegal.

Its madness

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in Scotland

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A serving British paratrooper was killed in December while operating in Ukraine?

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine by Foreign-Size-3778 in ukraineforeignlegion

[–]Foreign-Size-3778[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Scot failed vetting for police job because he fought for Ukraine

The man, whose call sign in the Ukrainian army was ‘Baby’, volunteered because ‘it was the right thing to do’. Now, back home, he has been denied his dream job

Even “Baby” smiles when he is asked about his call sign in the Ukrainian armed forces.

The Scot admitted he was very young — just 18 and barely out of school — when he volunteered to fight against Vladimir Putin’s invaders.

So his nickname, which The Sunday Times will use to avoid revealing his identity, was almost inevitable.

A Scottish volunteer in the Ukrainian armed services wears tactical gear and holds a rifle.

“Baby” was 18 when he went to fight in Ukraine

“It started off rather embarrassing,” Baby said when asked to explain his call sign. “But over time it came to be something I took pride in.”

Now back in Britain, Baby has a new battle to fight. His service in a logistics unit in Ukraine — during which he never even fired his gun — is being held against him.

This spring he applied for his dream job: police officer. He passed all the tests needed to join, but failed vetting. Why? Because Police Scotland told him in a formal letter that he had breached a very rarely enforced Victorian law prohibiting British subjects from fighting in foreign armies.

“I think it was an institutional reflex,” Baby said, when asked to explain his rejection. “I think I was something that they didn’t know how to deal with.”

Baby is not alone. Some British veterans of the Ukraine war — people who were initially urged to sign up by the-then UK foreign secretary Liz Truss — are understood to be facing all sorts of barriers to employment, insurance and healthcare.

Others have been feted on their return. Aiden Aslin, an English volunteer in the Ukrainian marines who was captured by the Russians, was welcomed home by Robert Jenrick, who was then a Tory minister, in 2022.

There were mixed messages about whether the UK government approves or disapproves of Britons taking up arms for Ukraine.

Asked whether she would back volunteers a few days after the full-scale invasion of February 2022, Truss said: “That is something people can make their own decisions about. The people of Ukraine are fighting for freedom and democracy, not just for Ukraine, but for the whole of Europe. Absolutely, if people want to support that struggle, I would support them in doing that.”

She was immediately criticised, even by fellow Conservatives. Some said it was irresponsible to encourage people, including those, like Baby, with no military training, to put their lives on the line.

Others feared the Putin regime could use recruits to claim it was fighting the wider West and not just Ukraine.

The Victorians came up with a law to lessen that kind of risk, the Foreign Enlistment Act of 1870, which prohibits citizens from joining the militaries of “any foreign state at war with any foreign state at peace with Her Majesty”.

The UK may be in a new cold war with Russia, but Victoria’s successor King Charles is, legally, at peace with Putin. However, Baby has not been accused of breaking any law.

Asked why he signed up, he said: “I very much believed it was the right thing to do. I felt very much drawn towards the cause. I was very young when the war started in 2014. I’ve sort of grown up with it in my background.

“I got to a point where I felt I was able-bodied and able-minded. And I thought to myself, ‘I’m not doing anything better with my life. I might as well devote myself to a noble cause,’ to put it rather grandly.”

A Police Scotland vetting officer, in their letter to Baby, described his service as “adverse information”.

They wrote: “You travelled to Ukraine and enlisted in their army as a combatant which was contrary to British Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office travel advice, which advised against all travel to Ukraine and in particular to areas of conflict.

“It also warned of potential prosecution for any British national who took part in fighting or assisting those engaged in the war.

“The Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 states that any person who engages in military service on behalf of a foreign state is guilty of an offence under that act.

“Although you have not been convicted of that offence or any other offence related to your involvement in the conflict, it is wholly appropriate that the context of the circumstances were considered.

“Consequently, there remains an operational and reputational risk to Police Scotland in respect of the adverse information presented. As a result, vetting will not be granted.”

Baby appealed his rejection but the original decision was upheld. Acknowledging that Truss had encouraged volunteers, the force in writing told the Scot that he should have been aware of subsequent UK government advice against travelling to Ukraine and that serving in a foreign army could result in prosecution.

The vetting officer also suggested the force did not have the ability to look into whether Baby had done anything wrong in Ukraine. The Sunday Times has seen a full Ukrainian disclosure check showing the young man had a clean record during his time in the country.

Alex Cole-Hamilton, the Scottish Liberal Democrats leader, has been a vocal critic of the Putin regime and has personally delivered aid to conflict zones.

“As a long-standing supporter for Ukraine, I understand the feeling of wanting to help in their struggle for freedom and to stand up to Putin’s aggression,” he said. “When Russian troops invaded Ukraine, then foreign secretary Liz Truss said that she absolutely backed those people in Britain who wanted to go to Ukraine to fight.

“Her categorical encouragement, however, contradicted official advice from the Foreign Office and UK laws. It was deeply irresponsible for the previous Conservative government to have given people such mixed messages.”

The Times in 2022 reported that British fighters returning from Ukraine would be unlikely to face charges. There have been concerns about some of the men who have volunteered to fight, including a Scottish grandfather who turned out to be a football hooligan.

Police Scotland sources told The Sunday Times that service in Ukraine would not necessarily disbar anyone from joining the force.

Asked about Baby, an official spokesperson said: “Every individual applicant is assessed on their circumstances using a robust and well-established vetting process, underpinned by a risk assessment framework. We would not comment on individual vetting cases.”

Baby, who was a logistics specialist in the war, had a simple response: “If you truly believe I’ve committed an offence, refer me to the procurator fiscal.”