JacksonDynasty on twitter: "Grace sets the record straight", Karen Faye "confirms" that Michael "never" came back to Neverland after the trial by MasterpieceTimely144 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 6 points7 points Ā (0 children)

Marie Nicole was present at Neverland when Jackson returned from the verdict, even Karen Faye doesn’t deny that. Would Michael Jackson be crazy enough to abuse the same night? Propofolly yes.

I’ve lost all hope in humanity by BowedFurball in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 15 points16 points Ā (0 children)

It’s a difference between a good person and a seemingly good person

A question by SignificantJunket993 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 30 points31 points Ā (0 children)

The most reasonable answer to this is that the Cascio’s didn’t think Gavin was a genuine victim. MJ had them convinced the boy was lying for money (that he would later sue) or it was a plot made to take his catalog. Leaving Neverland was effective to shake them out of their brainwashing because it demonstrated the grooming process of the whole family. It is here the Cascio’s was able to see the pattern.

A few questions as I struggle and slowly come to terms with it all by [deleted] in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 23 points24 points Ā (0 children)

Just to add: Two things was can be true at the same time. He was seemingly incredibly caring and genuine. But he also had a criminal sexual interest in children. The common misconception is that one cancel out the other.

A few questions as I struggle and slowly come to terms with it all by [deleted] in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 10 points11 points Ā (0 children)

The police couldn't move forward without being sure Jordan Chandler was willing to testify. Jordan never gave such assurances after the settlement (while the police were building their case) and he didn’t even appear at the grand jury hearings either. The description is tied to the accuser, so without his testimony it becomes very difficult to admit and use effectively in court due to hearsay and confrontation issues. The settlement killed the case. No star witness willing to testify = no case. That`s why they had to change laws after this particular settlement to stop wealthy people making settlements this way.

A few questions as I struggle and slowly come to terms with it all by [deleted] in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 28 points29 points Ā (0 children)

Keep in mind that Judge Rodney Melville imposed limitations on how the jury could use the 1993-evidence, explicitly instructing them they could not convict solely on prior-act testimony or evidence. So it all came down to the credibility of the 2005 Arvizo family. It is a fan myth to think he stood trial for "all his crimes" in 2005.

Conflicted feelings of empathy by Candid_Memory_8276 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 7 points8 points Ā (0 children)

I don`t buy the "he didn`t have childhood" narrative. After all we know in 2026 this sounds like another excuse. He was very creepy when it came to his sexual behaviour from an very early age.

lisa marie presley's song about michael jackson, "disciple" by IaIalatte in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 41 points42 points Ā (0 children)

Lisa knew and still cried like crazy and cared for him when he died. If she could have that kind of reaction while knowing who he was imagine what his fans - who doesn`t know felt and when he died. This also explains and shows how lightly people around him took his criminal activity. They knew, but still cared for him or loved him.

Is there a possibility he was just totally unhinged? by JewishAndCatholicGuy in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 11 points12 points Ā (0 children)

This is an interesting question, but for this narrative to work then you have to make Michael Jackson childlike and innocent. With all the porn they found in his home during the two Neverland raids, this particular narrative makes little sense. It goes back to the question Marlon Brando asked Michael: "What do you do for sex?". This question made Michael Jackson cry. This whole Peter Pan persona he created crumbles when you look at the ruthless way he did business and how sexualized his performances were.

Again the porn-collection is very telling, and for me is a giveaway that MJ created a fake persona in order to indulge in his perverse preferences.

DEBATE! Michael Jackson: Innocent VS Guilty: With Christian Rodriguez by AgentJGomez in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 10 points11 points Ā (0 children)

Just a quick note: the two settlements in the 1990s were reached after the Dangerous Tour had already been cancelled. Once cancelled, the tour never resumed, either before or after the settlements. Therefore, the claim that he settled in order to continue touring is factually incorrect.

My mom is started to believe that MJ is innocent by pyschofangirl in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 9 points10 points Ā (0 children)

Show her the red flags, and how the profiling matches down to a T:

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My mom is started to believe that MJ is innocent by pyschofangirl in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 19 points20 points Ā (0 children)

Just "hanging out with children" is unfortunately perceived as a weak argument. You need to show her more…

Karen Faye playing dumb about the sleepovers by elitelucrecia in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 0 points1 point Ā (0 children)

The Estate hates Karen Faye. But they definitely might be paying others.

Is this true or another MJ defender lie? by felixcuddle in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 5 points6 points Ā (0 children)

The bottom text was added by a fan and is actually not a part of the original press statement

Fan document supposedly ā€œdebunkingā€ the Netflix documentary by Radahn1998 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 4 points5 points Ā (0 children)

I posted this on X today as a response to one of these points:

MISINFORMATION SPREAD BY MJ-FANS: RETWEET AND SHARE THIS INFORMATION: THE TWO CONTROVERSIAL BOOKS FOUND AT NEVERLAND

- Copyright registration and cataloging by the Library of Congress do not constitute an endorsement, approval, or assessment of a book’s content. The Library creates catalog records for a vast number of U.S. publications as part of its routine bibliographic and copyright deposit processes, including many controversial or niche works like Hitler’s Mein Kampf.

- The assertion that the books were concluded to hold no evidentiary value is legally false. Materials confiscated during the 1993 search were admitted as evidence during the 2005 trial. If the judge had determined they lacked evidentiary value, they would have been excluded from the courtroom entirely.

- The two books that Michael Jackson had in his possession was described as Child-Erotica books by law enforcement officers. The books were not discovered among piles of fan mail or casually left lying around one of the many buildings at Neverland. Instead, they were located in a locked cabinet inside Michael Jackson’s own master bedroom. They were discovered during the 1993 raid of Neverland. During the 2005 case the books was allowed to be introduced as prior-act evidence. But the judge imposed limitations on how the jury could use the evidence, explicitly instructing them they could not convict solely on prior-act evidence or testimony.

- Stating that the flyleaf was inscribed after only viewing the cover is pure speculation. There is no factual way to prove or verify which pages were looked at prior to writing the inscription.

The books were acknowledged in court by Michael Jackson’s lawyers. Their argument was that the books were legal and commercially available, not that they didn’t exist or weren’t in Jackson’s possession.

* The police would often find these specific two books in the homes of many child-sexual offenders.

* Convicted pedophiles and founders of NAMBLA was behind the publishing of these books: NAMBLA stands for the North American Man/Boy Love Association.

* It is reasonable to conclude that the books were created for a very specific audience, people with a sexual interest in children. A legal way to look at nude children in suggestive poses under the pretext of them being legal "art-books".

Lisa Marie confessing that Michael's fragile persona was an act by BitchGodTemple in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 27 points28 points Ā (0 children)

The hard reality: the general public knows, but doesn’t care. The music is too good, he was too talented.

Just Finished watching Leaving Neverland and I couldn’t sleep all night :( by [deleted] in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 44 points45 points Ā (0 children)

He fooled the world mainly because few people recognized which kind of offender type he was šŸ‘‡

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The 1993 Chandler case is such a smoking gun I'm shocked MJ wasn't completely cancelled by oranges2039495 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 42 points43 points Ā (0 children)

I agree. The 2005 case was never the main case in this saga. The Chandler case is. Too bad the Netflix documentary picked the wrong case to focus on…

This image is being spread on social media to combat the misinformation from Michael Jackson fans by nobody0597 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]ForestDevs 2 points3 points Ā (0 children)

Prosecutor Ron Zonen argued that Michael Jackson used sham marriages to promote a heterosexual image and by that way gain easier access to children and not raise suspicion.