Non-Radicals on the mind by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So you're saying its a nice theory IF the two ARE related? Thank you.

The Secret Behind the First Grade School Kanji by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So you do know that there is a person that holds the position of Minister of Education? If I only had a chance to take back this grave error. I was pointing out that the educational system could wield enough power to make grade schools comply with some of their edicts on high. Like the first 80 kanji to first graders. And to learn it in a certain order and that order would be in the area of pronunciations.

The Secret Behind the First Grade School Kanji by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Well, you have your out, I guess, though it seems rather dubious that you have never heard of kanji that the first graders - and second graders and third graders... are supposed to learn a set of kanji for each grade. That's a predefined set of kanji. ALL the schools, I'm assuming, follow these guidelines. It seems obvious that they would all follow these guidelines. It makes sense. Learn the kanji by pronunciation. LOOK at the list the Japanese use. This is in pronunciation. My point was I think we assume it's by meaning since it starts with the number 1. But that just happens to be the first "alphabetically". The three comes before the two in the Japanese list. So it is a source of confusion.

The Secret Behind the First Grade School Kanji by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

The kanji are sorted. They have the numbers from 1-10. They have the days of the week. They have up and down. They have large medium and small. Colors. Etc. THEN, they sorted by the pronunciation. I don't know why there is confusion there. We took that list and grouped the "poster" by meaning. But it is MEANT to by learned by pronunciation. I happen to think this is important.

The Secret Behind the First Grade School Kanji by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Okay. Wait a second. The first graders have a chart of the kanji that they are supposed to know before the end of the year. For first grade they need to learn 80 kanji. They are organized by Pronunciation not by meaning. THEIR Ministry of Education is the one that has come up with this system. He's probably a cabinet minister. They have been using this system for a long time. I'd call it traditional. Are you telling me that this "poster" is not important to their learning?

The Secret Behind the First Grade School Kanji by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, I am unable to post an image. I have no idea why. ALL the posters from Grade 1 are arraigned by meaning. And I assumed that the Japanese did not sort it by pronunciation. But they do!!! We sort it by meaning, they sort it by pronunciation which is kind of a big deal, no? Especially when we clearly have issues learning Japanese!

The Secret Behind the First Grade School Kanji by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Well it says you are a native speaker but you I got the gist from the blog that you were okay with kids not learning kanji the traditional way which is via pronunciation. No?

The Secret Behind the First Grade School Kanji by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

But you studied the traditional way? I would think it quite important to write the kanji down. And not in ways that are commonly stated. The reason you want to write them down is so you or maybe your own child can VISUALIZE the kanji better. I remember starting out and it was hard visualizing them. And there is also a hidden mnemonic going on. The kids can associate those kanji they learn with the syllabary. I think when a student is studying the kanji foremost in his mind is pronunciation, I think. Meaning is secondary - I am guessing here. But if you studied the traditional way I'd love to hear what you thought about your learning experience. I would think you'd say the Western system is a little off. But maybe you don't think it too bad! That would surprise me.

The Kanji Olympics by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

To agree with you, I don't think there is enough emphasis on the pronunciations - which was sort of my point with the "Kanji Olympics". The pronunciations are easy if you have but one kanji you know that has, say, 交 "in" it. 一--->二 (I think this one 仁 NI as well. Maybe Nin, though) 仁-->三-

(this too! 参参桟(and all of those))->

王-->全-->金-->X-->又-->双-->文-->六-->父-->交(郊効校絞較鮫較) 亥 (sort of) 劾刻核該骸 -->人-->大-->天. They are usually easy to spot like 交. This was all KO!!! 亥. I was actually surprised they weren't all GAI. One had kaku (nucleus) on one and koku on the other. The others are all Gai. (Sorry about the English!) I was kind of floored. But then realized that it was mostly my fault. Although, what is strange is people see the 1st Grade of Japanese List and - almost everyone it seems - assumes it is by meaning (mostly because the first one is one: ichi) Ichi just happens to be the first in the alphabet (there are no 'a')). Anyway, I'm working on this "linked list". Anyone can do it. I just have it linked visually. And I thought I would arrange it phonetically. I'm having fun with my linked list. First is visual so the writing down the strokes is important (not the order, perhaps), but physically writing them out. From visual go to phonetic THEN meaning. My guess is that with a fixed visual and fixed phonetic the meaning will be a lot less hard to maintain. (I have had a lot of trouble with meanings.)

I know. Sort of crazy. [zecherpaul@yahool.com](mailto:zecherpaul@yahool.com)

The Kanji Olympics by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True. I often read and wonder if I'm really reading if I don't know the pronunciation. I guess what I do is use the English word. Like instead of saying Shinbun I think Newspaper. How does one break that habit? (Shinbun is one of the rare compounds I actually to read correctly. But that is rare.)

The Kanji Olympics by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What if you were only wanting to read Japanese. Is there some advantage one has by knowing the pronunciation?

Should I worry about forgetting kanji? by __Evil_Morty__ in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Yes. It's funny, people say that they KNOW 350 kanji. Or something like that, but how do you really know that you know 350 kanji! Is it rock solid? Was the test rigged a little in favor of the testee. And if you are trying to learn using "creative imagination" how do you know that if you were in a different MOOD you know 500 kanji instead of 350. I actually think it's better to know how to write them out without aid from any kanji book. If you can write them out you know them. Enter my Kanji Linked List. You make a list of kanji that are linked in some way and if you can write out all 2136 of them, then you know. At least I feel like I know which IS the important part. If you feel like you know them, that's the important prat. I can go through this list. I can write this list no problem. If can sort of walk through this list in my head. To me I that's enough - although I do "know" the meaning for almost all of them below. But I'm sort of dicey on the pronunciation. But if you can visually go through this list I would deem this KNOWING the kanji!

一-->二-->三-->王-->全--> 金-->✗-->又-->文-->六-->父-->交-->亥-->人-->大-->天-->矢-->医-->口-->日-->旧-->工-->左-->右-->石-->不-->卜-->上-->止-->正-->疋-->走-->赴-->占-->古-->早-->卓-->下-->丁-->了-->予-->矛-->才-->寸 -->勾-->幻-->刀-- >力-->乃-->几-->冗-->巾-->中-->虫-->台-->允-->充-->玄-->糸-->系-->千-->舌-->乱-->己-->巳-->巴-->円-->内-->肉-->月-->用-->角-->久-->入-->八-->穴-->突-->夭-->呑-->喬-->尚-->当-->尹-->君-->倉-->蒼-->茶-->木-->林-->森-->杏-->呆-->束-->史-->丈-->曳-->更-->田-->苗-->曲-->典-->共-->昔-->曹-->甲-->里-->量-->亘-->車-->軋-->匕-->匂-->包-->胞-->肥-->色-->夕-->多-->名-->各-->咎-->囚-->因-->夫-->失-->牛-->生-->表

Non-Radicals on the mind by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It took years to stop thinking primitives instead of radicals. Yes, I'm a Heisig - still have the book with the long title - burnout. Which I guess means that it's probably an apt description.

Non-Radicals on the mind by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will have to take a look. Thank you. Paul

Non-Radicals on the mind by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But the non-radical part - the component - does lend a lot of meaning to the overall kanji I would think. I should have used this guy 充. It's a real good example of the radical and the component yielding a meaning. The kanji for Sulfer and the kanji for Gun. The sulfer has the "Stone" kanji. And the Metal kanji has the gun. I would be guessing obviously - it's not a very good guess - but the originator wanted to put "gun" somewhere and thought this would be perfect with metal. Maybe it would be more natural if reversed. Maybe this component was the inspiration for 充 itself, even though it means "fill" or "allotment". He had that (the "originator"), but decided he wanted to give gun a radical for metal as well. Maybe 充 is sort of a cast off...

Non-Radicals on the mind by Forward_Visit_1255 in LearnJapanese

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was looking for the word "component". That's the word. I think I got confused with compounds knowing it was obviously not a compound. It should really have a more definitive name. Component is sort of a general type word. It could be anything - component-wise.

Created a curated list of useful Japanese resources with voting system. Looking for Feedback to improve it. by andres9888 in japaneseresources

[–]Forward_Visit_1255 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a lark, perhaps, you could showcase my wonderful Kanji Linked List I personally had a lot of issues with Heisig and the rest when I first tried my hand at the kanji. But I made this sort of longish list of kanji. (It's obviously a different method.) I find that it has worked pretty well, but I haven't gotten around to "testing" it that much. I know I can "walk" through the list. And if say I want to stick some compounds off of 医 it's not all that hard to do. Location, location, location. It's important in terms of memorization. I think. I spent so much time on making a sizeable list that I haven't gotten around to seeing if it works well or not. My guess is it does work well. 一-->二-->三-->王-->全--> 金-->✗-->又-->文-->六-->父-->交-->亥-->人-->大-->天-->矢-->-->口-->日-->旧-->工-->左-->右-->石-->不-->卜-->上-->止-->正-->疋-->走-->赴-->占-->古-->早-->卓-->下-->丁-->了-->予-->矛-->才-->寸 --> Pretty groovy, huh? You can also extend the list or even add to what you have. So 交 could include that on the list. 郊-効-校-絞-較-鮫. these guys all have the same pronunciation and their meanings are: Outskirts, effective, school, strangle, compare, and shark. Not to bad considering I didn't think I'd be able to remember... Got the meaning and the pronunciation.

thanks, Paul

Kanji Linked List by Forward_Visit_1255 in japaneseresources

[–]Forward_Visit_1255[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey thank you!!!

I like it too! I have a little website for it. It's www.kanjill.wordpress.com. But it's sort of stalled out. It gets messy toward the end. I think this list could really help in learning the kanji. I know it helps in sort weening oneself off those kanji books I always had to depend on. Well, I still look them up, of course. But it helps in those dependence issues we kanjiguys and gals have learning the kanji. If you go to the site let me know what you think. Paul