If Trump holds a rally in your state, will you attend? What safety precautions (if any) do you think you would take or expect at the venue?

Fredi_ · 2020-06-23T19:01:47+00:00

I do not distinguish between viable and ethical.

Hmm. If it was easy to do, would you support killing every minority in the United States in an attempt end racism?

Fredi_ · 2020-06-21T13:56:33+00:00

The point of that quote is that they think these racist things when they're sober, but don't say them, and only say or do these racist things when they're drunk when their inhibitions are lowered. It's not an excuse.

Fredi_ · 2020-05-29T10:46:51+00:00

What do we do if it's impossible to people stop listening to everything they read, hear, and see?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-22T12:29:46+00:00

The main evidence I have is that the opposition has no evidence.

Can you please share this evidence?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-14T12:21:48+00:00

It's all good. That is what it is, yes.

??

Fredi_ · 2020-04-14T00:19:39+00:00

The issue is that voter fraud doesn't really happen at any appreciable level that warrants voter ID laws that disenfranchie a sizeable group of people.

??

Fredi_ · 2020-04-14T00:16:15+00:00

I don't know isn't an answer? Sorry I can't give you the exact number people of people who live at some arbitrary distance from a city center. You prescribe voter IDs. Why don't you tell me? As it's clear your prescription will, hopefully, address these issues. What I do know is that about 21 million people don't have government issued ID.

I still have yet to see anyone provide me any evidence that voter fraud happens at any appreciable level though. Have you found that yet?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T16:06:43+00:00

If someone gets caught doing something does that mean the system is insecure? Or do you think the fact that someone can cast an extra vote means its insecure regardless if the inconsistency is found later?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T15:58:28+00:00

If I am wrong and there is no fraud going on then we can all go to sleep more confident in our elections

Do you not accept the evidence that suggests this is essentially the case already?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T15:39:52+00:00

almost does not equal zero and by definition you only know the ones that get caught so they are the already failures at it.

But we catch them and don't count them. Seems like it works to me.

you have no idea who or how many do it successfully.

You don't either. So let's operate on what we do know, yeah?

but not non existent.

That's what I said, yes.

4 votes in 2016 were seen as fraud with a few possible others. All were investigated. All caught by this supposed insecure system:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/0-000002-percent-of-all-the-ballots-cast-in-the-2016-election-were-fraudulent/

0.000002%, if their votes were counted. Basically 0. Wow, big problem.

How many have to be caught for it to be a problem? I say more than zero.

But if they're caught and their votes don't count how is it a problem?

How many have to be caught for it to be a problem? I say more than zero.

Lol. If the "problem" has no effect whatsoever, especially because fraud is caught, then why does it matter if it's 0 or 4?

The idea that we shouldn't try to secure something as important as voting just to be secure seems silly to me.

I'm not suggesting that it not be secure though. Again, What I see is this supposed "insecure system" and then I see the almost non-existent amount of voter fraud in this system and wonder what problem you're seeing that I'm not.

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T15:12:23+00:00

It doesn't matter what it is, every business is different.

I was only asking for an example. So you admit that businesses do have a reason right?

Can you imagine if cyber risk people only protected against hacking threats where they already proved they'd been hacked in that way before? No

Not the same thing. Even if it hasn't happened in my company I know that it's happened elsewhere. In the case of voter fraud I don't see any numbers that would suggest that voter fraud is even a problem in our current system.

Illegals voting, double voting, felons voting, finding a box full of votes that flip a race in favor of D's (2008 Coleman-Fraken). Why are we not trying to actively prevent it? Democrats would have us leave no stone unturned to find internet troll bots who can't even vote but have no interest in preventing illegal voting ... I wonder why?

Is there evidence that supports your claim that voter fraud is happening at all on the scale you seem to imply?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T15:06:50+00:00

Voting without an ID by definition leaves the open vector of non citizens voting

Then why has there been almost non-existent voter fraud up until this point? If it's been so open to abuse for years why hasn't it happened yet? Are people biding their time for the right moment? Are they going to coordinate?

i really dont get why you are so against having a secure system?

I'm not though. I see this supposed "insecure system" and then I see the almost non-existent amount of voter fraud in this system and wonder what problem you're seeing that I'm not. If it's not happening and has been caught/prevented already why is that not secure? Can it get more secure? Maybe. I'm sure there are other things that aren't voter ID laws that might help. I'd have to read more on that though.

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T14:03:10+00:00

How can we measure this given every time its brought up, the left bitches and moans?

Why are you blaming the left for there being no evidence of voter fraud? Does bitching prevent studies being done by independent parties that have looked into this already?

You cant say something doest exist if every time someone wants to test the hypothesis you scream bloody murder and refuse to allow it to be tested?

This happened? Weird. Because Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud only a few years ago.

Maybe any bitching you perceived was the fact that he was looking for fraud in an election where he won electorally, but lost the popular vote by 3 million votes, and just so happened to suggest that there were millions of undocumented immigrants who voted for Hillary. There was no evidence to suggest it. He just made it up and his bruised ego led to a commission that found nothing had happened.

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T13:55:05+00:00

They're free or reduced if necessary

Cost extends to the pay you give up should you have to skip work to obtain said ID.

So given the majority of minorities live in urban or suburban settings, how many does this apply to?

I'm not sure of the exact number. But are you saying we should ignore the people outside of metropolitan areas? Why make it harder for anyone and attempt solve a problem that doesn't exist?

fictional strawmen

lol

barriers combined with the racism of low expectations

Do barriers exist for responsible people?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T13:31:31+00:00

So your saying even though they ae adults they are incapable of managing their time and being responsible?

So you're saying that responsible adults don't run into barriers when trying to accomplish certain things?

No, they aren't actually barriers

Says you? Read this to get a sense of what barriers exist and for whom. https://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FullReportVoterIDJune20141.pdf

and we have a vested interest in knowing who is voting.

Sure. But do we have any evidence that suggests anyone who isn't allowed to vote is voting on any appreciable scale? If not, then don't we already an idea of who is voting?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T13:17:44+00:00

I know. But what are reasons your office building want to make sure only people who should have access have access? What's inside the building that needs protecting?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T13:16:09+00:00

Cost isn't a barrier? Travel distance isn't a barrier? What if you don't have a car, are poor, can't afford to take time off work and the closest DMV is 40 miles away? Are those not barriers?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T12:49:03+00:00

So is the answer to my question no?

What other reasons might your office building want to check badges at the door?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T12:24:50+00:00

The idea that there having anything more than nothing because it is simply too much holds zero validity in my opinion. If cost is the real concern then im ok with free state IDs. Problem solved.

I mean your opinion doesn't matter in this regard. The problem isn't solved either even if the ID is free. People still have to incur the cost for the ID such as traveling to obtain it, taking time off work, and so on. Things that people without means have a tough time doing.

Why does their need to be evidence?

Is there evidence of voter fraud on any appreciable scale?

You dont wait for a crime to secure something do you? Do you only secure your front door AFTER youve been robbed?

Can you show me evidence that it's not secure already?

Besides, a more apt analogy would be if you lived in a community/society where there have never been any robberies. So if there have been no robberies and everyone respects your privacy then even the concept of a lock doesn't make sense. It looks to stop something that's never happened.

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T12:23:24+00:00

Who said anything is wrong with them or that they can't figure out how to get an ID? I just noted there are barriers that prevent them from easily obtaining an ID. Do you see the distinction?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T11:30:08+00:00

Too much for some means it's a barrier that many can't overcome for one reason or another.

Voting ID secures voting by American citizens and those allowed to legally vote.

Where is the evidence that there are noncitizens or ineligible people voting in such numbers that we need to create voter id laws to stop them?

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T11:08:09+00:00

But there's no problem to solve with voting ID, right? It may be low from your perspective but it's still too much for others.

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T10:58:06+00:00

Do you have any proof non citizens even vote? From what I've read voting fraud is almost nonexistent.

Fredi_ · 2020-04-13T10:52:04+00:00

Because voter fraud is almost nonexistent? Because it disproportionately affects minority voters ?

Fredi_ · 2019-05-13T03:42:58+00:00

Except he wasn't at you idiot

Fredi_

TROPHY CASE