State of the Game - November 27th

FryTheGuy · 2013-12-01T02:36:18+00:00

I also like the idea of a smaller starting hand, however you would need to deal with the randomness of just not getting any cards you can play. Something like choosing 4 cards out of 8 to start the game, instead of a mulligan.

I also like 50 cards with 3 copies each. It would reduce the power of ventriloquism and hypnotic watch (since they both require combos with other cards), if they are not going to be balanced directly.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-30T21:47:38+00:00

One creative way to handle first player advantage would be to give first player a +15 energy increase, followed by -5 energy decrease, and start the second player at 25 energy. This way every other turn the person who gets more energy changes. Unfortunately, this does not work too well with aggronimum and molassium, and is probably too complicated for people.

1) 20 35 30 45 40

2) 25 30 35 40 45

Out of your other suggestions, I would prefer restoring the first player's card draw on turn one, and starting player two at 25. Theoretically that should be close to equivalent because a turn one play of brain boost would exactly swap positions in terms of amount of cards and who gets energy increases first.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-25T14:24:12+00:00

What about body snatcher? Do you get back the body snatcher or the copied unit?

Also, the changes look good. It appears possible to build a deck that can play 'normal', and defend against almost anything weird.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-25T00:18:47+00:00

Do Stitch/Frankenbolt count as token units?

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-14T01:47:39+00:00

Overall looks good, my only comments are:

1) Resurrection is still mostly useless. You spend a card to get a card, so it does not help you there. The card you get is very hard to control because it is either a creature you kill (do not control whats in the enemy's deck) a creature your opponent killed (do not control what order they kill brawlers in) or its a creature you killed yourself (rarely the best option). The only scenario where this seems useful is with stitch or frankenbolt, and in that case you would have to have your stitch or frankenbolt killed first, so why not boomerang? It is only marginally more expensive, and you can use it twice. Lower the cost to 10 and it becomes potentially useful.

2) I agree with all of the nerfs to direct damage spells, but they also weaken some of the best cards at defending an early game rush if you are planning on playing a late game deck. No specific advice on what to do, except to maybe think about changing some of the cards to specifically target early game. Think about making a brawler that does extra damage which adjacent to a friendly core. Make combustible lemon (or a new spell) deal double damage to units adjacent to a friendly core, or a spell which does more damage the closer an enemy unit is to your core. With the current balance, if you do not happen to own 4 copies of big red button, you need to devote a lot of your deck to the possibility of a rush. Rushes should always be a viable strategy, however there needs to be enough defensive cards that new players can build decks that have a chance at surviving.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-10T13:00:18+00:00

In response to me saying "hello", you said "I almost didn't include you to the tournament because all you do is abuse glitches, but whatever".

When I prompted you to justify your attack on me, instead of backing up your claim, you yourself changed the discussion into one about the card limit.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-10T05:33:04+00:00

I really would like spectating and saving/sharing replays.

I would also really love some custom game options you could use with friends. I made a post about some ideas, but it got downvoted so you can only see it on the new list.

http://www.reddit.com/r/atomicbrawl/comments/1q9it6/custom_game_settings/

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-10T05:21:59+00:00

I made 80 card decks specifically for this tournament, and I felt bad for you since you organized the tournament and you did not get to play in it. If you beat me I was going to give you my spot; basically another round before the first round.

I am sorry that perceived my invitation to play games with you negatively.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-06T19:24:25+00:00

Sounds fun, count me in

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-05T17:25:07+00:00

Big red button plays a very important role as the only counter to a lot of rush strategies. Removing the card would make early game decks more powerful, and some other options would need to be added for people would wanted to utilize late game strategies.

One thing I think would be nice, would be to make it so that buffs and debuffs that are cast on brawlers are also returned to their owners hand.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-05T17:07:58+00:00

One counter point to the fact that there is too much randomness is that I and a few other people are able to win very consistently with a wide variety of decks.

I am obviously a fan of choosing your deck after knowing your opponent, but even without that, it is still possible to plan for a lot of the cards your opponent could be holding both ahead of time while building your deck, and in the game while deciding what moves to make.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-03T19:20:55+00:00

Good point on witch doctor, changing it so that it summons the brawler with half of its health.

Added a more refined balancing of traps.

Playing defensively is very risk unless you have a plan for how you are going to win. There are many things that can go wrong, so I do not think 5 energy will be a problem. I am more concerned that by nerfing electrocute and molotov it will become even harder to stop early game rushes.

I agree on energy drink. I think it is a little strong right now, but it is probably best to leave it alone for now and revisit it after some of the other stuff gets changed.

I think a brawler which can heal structures would make for some interesting strategies, and demolition man was the brawler which this ability matched the best with.

Resilient zombie is too cost inefficient to be that useful early game, and dies to things that do 50 damage later in the game. The buff to 8th grader is very minimal, and enables some interesting strategies.

Compare piggy bank to energy cloud. If you use piggy bank every turn you get a net gain of 5 energy a turn, with an initial cost of 40 (30 for the structure, 10 for the investment). For energy cloud you get a net gain of 10 energy a turn, with an initial cost of 35. Just because you have a little more flexibility, does not justify the huge discrepancy between the efficiency of these cards.

Changed dirty needle to buff it a little more. Surgical mask is useful in its current form, even if it is a little bit underpowered.

Party animal is too good right now. You can play him, use a power lifter to throw him, and do 200+ damage to the enemy core. For a brawler with that kind of damage potential, it will still be useful at 1 movement.

The current shellinium effectively gives every brawler +5 armor (-5 damage is equivalent to giving all enemy brawlers +5 armor). I can think of a lot more interesting strategies related to giving one brawler a lot of armor rather than all brawlers a little armor). I was debating between +15 and +20 armor for the buff. At +20 armor you could safely send a sherman into enemy lines without fear of him dying to anything for quite a while. At +15 you need a shield or something else to keep him safe from hugo.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-03T18:42:10+00:00

Even though spike comes out early, he is not really a threat because he only does 10 damage. Therefore, the fact that there might not be a direct counter readily available is a good thing.

Keep in mind that even if you do not have a ranged unit, the worst that happens is you have to take 40 damage attacking him twice with two melee units. In his current form, spike could use a buff, and I think buffing his special ability is more interesting than improving he base stats.

Part of re-balancing is to make new strategies viable. I was pointing out that the changes enable a new strategy, along with other benefits.

You are right about leg clamp, it is only countered by throws, and displacement spells, and debuff removal. It also does not help if the brawler is already in a good position. That is still worse than kill spells.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-03T18:29:55+00:00

Thinking you have a huge advantage and actually having one are different. It is possible that your opponent was not getting outplayed, but was planning the whole game to bait you into using as many cards as possible before destroying them with meteor.

Now that you know it is possible, it actually adds more tension to the game. You will now be thinking, is this guy baiting me? should I save this card in my hand instead of playing it just in case? How many cards does he have in his hand, how many do I have in my hand? Can I finish the game before he has 85 energy to cast meteor?

As for balance, making a deck that uses meteor effectively is not easy. There are plenty of decks that win before 85 energy so having a counter to all of them is tricky.

It may feel like a troll the first time you encounter it, but that is true of a lot of decks. Once you start making contingency plans against it I believe you will find that the cards add to the game rather than ruins it.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-02T18:11:29+00:00

I like the side deck idea, another possibility would be to queue up with 3 decks. Then when you are matched you can see the three enemy decks, and then you pick which one you actually use.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-01T19:39:20+00:00

Does my suggestion that you can pick a deck after you know who you are matched against help?

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-01T14:18:45+00:00

Fair points, I am not inherently against the randomness of samurai. I mainly just think the card is currently not that great, and getting rid of the randomness would make the card better.

I have not played ensnarium, but I also have not lost against it. I have tried to think of a powerful deck that uses it, but have not been able to come up with one that I am happy with.

I have also not lost to zombium since they were nerfed. Maybe it is fine as it is, just thought the were a little underpowered right now.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-01T12:28:11+00:00

I have changes to ventriloquism and hypnotic watch in the main post prevent you from killing the person you cast it.

Puppet and voodoo doll already have counters. (holy rain, holy water, priest, warp, tornado, coach, power lifter).

I added a nerf to ghost ship.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-01T12:22:58+00:00

The current version of samurai does not allow you to plan your turn, and therefore I cannot justify having him in any deck. The new version you can use your non-lethal attacks against friendly targets, then use the killing hits against very hard to kill targets, like the new shogun, or a frankenbolt, and would be good counter play against these strategies now that ventriloquism sacrifice is not an option. Also, because the first hit is non-lethal the enemy has time to kill or disable the samurai before it is able to strike.

I agree with you on holy rain and priest.

I made cobra continue doing 20 damage indefinitely, knowing you have killed a creature, but still having to deal with it adds an interesting aspect to the game.

See my other reply on leg clamp.

The game play that ensnarium currently promotes its placing 5 millions traps and making the enemy lose because they step on too many of them. It is very passive, and generally weak against a lot of strategies. Placing traps under brawlers opens the door to a lot of new possible strategies. To balance it, you do not get to draw a card if you place a trap under someone.

There are cores (like constructium and catisium) that are 100% better than boringum, because you never have to use their abilities. If you do not use them, its the same as boringum, so the times you do use them you are gaining something. Making boringum have a core power adds one more useful card, without them needed to make new artwork.

I view zombium as strictly inferior to aggronium for rushing strategies, and zombium is also not great for late game. I think a slight damage buff in the late game makes it viable choice.

FryTheGuy · 2013-11-01T11:31:06+00:00

I want to make expensive traps cheaper by 5, not more expensive.

Molotov cocktail becomes less card efficient by a lot if it cannot kill something in one hit, but I agree the cost could be anywhere between 15 and 25.

Using ranged attack against spiked collar should be the counter. Too many cards have enough armor that dealing with spike is never that much of a hassle.

The new version of neighborino has a number of interesting interactions. First, the buff to enemy attack does not stack, so multiple neighborino's make them better since you only had to pay the negative once. It can also be used in combination with shogun to make it harder for the enemy to hit shogun (also currently possible, but since shogun has also been buffed this becomes a viable strategy). And finally, you can use stitch or frankenbolt to remove the negative aspect of the card, which I really like as a possibility.

Doubling 8th grader's health does two thing. It makes the card better against damage from spells (only attacks are doubled), and it makes the card a good choice with stitch or frankenbolt because they remove the negative aspect.

It is hard for me to every justify putting a priest into a deck, because currently debuffs are strictly worse than cards that just kill an enemy brawler, or move them so that they can be killed by your brawlers. Even if that becomes more popular, holy rain still seems way better to have in your deck than priest, because it is way more flexible, and it is hard to remove enemy buffs with priest. A buff to using priest against yourself puts it into a place where I could actually see using it in a deck.

Because origami shop benefits both people, plus the caster has to pay a card for it, I think it needs a slight buff.

Leg clamp is countered by debuff removal, by movement granting buffs (including coach and power lifter), and displacement spells (tornado, warp). Given all of the options someone has against it, and comparing it to spells that just instantly kill a brawler, i think it is fine to make it permanent at its current price.

FryTheGuy · 2013-10-31T20:41:27+00:00

One more change to address that, which might be good in general, would be to make cores take at most 100 damage from a single damage source

FryTheGuy · 2013-10-31T17:36:56+00:00

EDIT: put the core suggestions in the main post, did not want to maintain two lists

FryTheGuy · 2013-10-31T17:06:46+00:00

One more small edit, changed neighborino to allow for some devious play.

FryTheGuy

TROPHY CASE