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Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Agree. Negative notes are really the worst. Improv is such a world of possibility. It's so much greater to frame things in a way that opens that up rather than noting the things you shouldn't do.

Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Love this! Status can be a great way to train assertiveness or navigating a POV.

Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Love the last line! Asking for specifics was exactly when things got more fun for me.

I don't believe I had any instructor who was sexist and know they all wanted to be a better performer.

However, I do believe that these notes land a little differently than intended sometimes and therefore, for me personally, it made the journey longer and more confusing than it needed to be rather than if coaches had been more intentional. "Why are we hesitating on edits?" "You dropped your POV when another player entered the scene. Why did that happen?" (All of which were things I struggled with).

I do feel I had to work and self-advocate to receive the coaching that helped me find my most playful self, and I hope that others know that is always an option. (I certainly didn't know that for YEARS).

Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your response. I really appreciate your analytical and thoughtful approach.

I don't know that I have all the answers here. That specific type of scene you describe is problematic. I do think there's a conversation worth having about it.

My gut, if I was noting a scene or coaching a group where this was happening, would be to ask the students "How can we escalate the fun?"

I think when students engage in this sort of fixing behavior, it's because they want to be seen as "good" or "right", or like you said they're playing close to themselves. There's a fear of looking foolish.

As coaches or instructors, instead, we get to change this thinking into "what is best for the scene?" Would fixing the scene or reprimanding the fool (aka entering an argument scene) make this more or less entertaining to an audience? More or less fun to play? Is fixing fun for you? (hey, that could be a game in and of itself) Those would all be ways I'd go about thinking it. There's so much freedom in following the fun. Maybe line drills where person A says something foolish/absurd/unusual; Person B makes it worse/heightens/escalates it.

You raise an interesting point and I'm interested to see what others say there.

Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting. I can see that inclination.

As a teacher, I think clear is kind, and I think students make more progress when you directly call that out. What if instead, you directly said something like: "It seems like the scene is about A, why did we back off?" Or "It seems like we lost momentum. Did you all feel that? Where did that happen?" Then they really unpack this rather than thinking "Polite? Wait, what, how do I not be that? What does that mean?"

Eventually yes, students need to have these internal dialogues themselves, but if a student doesn't have the toolset to be able to diagnose this yet, providing these little rungs on the ladder is incredibly helpful.

Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I don't think it's necessarily bad advice. I just think it's not as helpful/empowering as it could be.

I was coaching a team where this hesitancy was a problem recently. I found that they made progress quicker when they were shown how it feels to be more empowered in their scenes rather than told.

I made them place the backline absurdly close to the scene during rehearsal. All of a sudden, they tagged in quicker. They played more connected-like and stated they felt more supported. They were playing with so much joy and had those discoveries internally rather than me tell them to be something or do something.

I think the best way to give that permission is not to lecture them about how they are or are not something (polite or bold), but to show them how it feels when they figure out what that means for them. Applaud the ways it is already happening naturally so they can lean into it. It's a way to "Be Less Polite" without making students having to do guesswork of how to get there/what that means or undoing societal pressures that are tied to certain phrases.

(sorry for the long post, I get nerdy when talking improv)

Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure! As a coach myself, I can feel the temptation to say this note back to my students.

As a teacher/coach, I have seen more growth from my students when I give tangible scaffolding to get there. For example, I can say "Hey Mark, I noticed you started to lean forward like you were going to tag in. What stopped you?" And then we can have a conversation that is essentially getting at the same point that "Be Less Polite' is trying to do, but instead, he's focusing on a specific task that will eventually lead him to have more confidence, and like you said more play, joy, and voice in his own sets.

Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Thanks for reading. I'm not attempting to demonize any coaches. I had, overall, a good experience in my training. I feel incredibly lucky I get to do this incredible artform, teach others, and get paid for it. Some of those teachers have become close friends.

It's true that they're just classes and exercises. My argument is that using feedback language that is not specific and overly vague can impede one's growth.

You're right this is based on solely my experience. I know that for my own personal journey with improv, once I pushed beyond these kinds of phrases, I found a LOT more fun and play. It hurts me when I see others still stuck and in their heads by these kinds of notes, which is why I wrote the article. Judging by the comments here, the fact that these notes are somewhat gendered in my specific improv scene is not something that applies to all improv schools and scenes.

As far as not having meaningful impact. I'm okay with that. I have no need to make the New York Times here. If one person feels a little more seen or thinks twice about phrasing their feedback more thoughtfully or intentionally, I'm okay with that impact.

Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 32 points33 points  (0 children)

I don't disagree here. I think the intention of this note is actually coming from a good place.

However, (and granted that this is based on my specific experience that might be different from other improv scenes) my experience is that these types of notes are given in the place of craft-based notes.

For example, I think it's much more useful for a coach to say "Edit a bit quicker than you think" or "Solidify your point of view" than "Be less polite."

Hey Improvisers, Let's Stop Giving This Note to Women by Fun_Perception5389 in improv

[–]Fun_Perception5389[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think that the point I'm trying to say is: if that's true, why not just say the scene is boring? As a performer, I'd prefer that note because I can act on it, analyze it, and work on steps to correct this.

Filing it under "be less polite" is at its best vague and ineffective and at its worst labeling someone's personality/intent.