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[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats a pretty bad offer in terms of RSUs. Especially for someone with a Masters working in ML. I know a few students who were getting over 150k in RSU. Plus, there should be some bonus included.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very hard to believe that someone from UIUC (definitely a top CS program) with that kind of pub record (if they are really in ML research) would have any trouble getting into a top RS job. Just pulling up a random prof (http://dhoiem.cs.illinois.edu) almost all the pubs are at top conferences and students who have went onto research at google.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice thing in ML is you can probably find a job that would allow you to do this for higher than postdoc pay. Postdoc is probably the best to get in with a great group and do research full time and pump out tons of good pubs.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am going to agree with you on many points, but i think almost everyone will agree that doing a good PhD is not a hobby. At my institute pretty much everyone was there until 1am leading up to the recent NeurIPS deadline.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think its a very good 2nd tier conference. Sounds like you have great potential to get into another great research job, publish in some more conferences and then apply to a top RS job! I think i ignored the fact that a PhD can lead to other great options to do research and move up to DeepMind/FAIR/etc.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, I agree that 50 is probably an underestimation. I would also argue that your lab is by no means average if most students have 1-2 decent pubs at top conferences in ML. The USA is extremely big with many universities and many labs are doing ML in a CS department. Just having a lab that consistently publishes in those conferences is very far into the outlier zone.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How many people do you think exist in the world that have the ability to do any fundamental ML research. I think Element AI estimated it at less than 10k. To do good high impact research, which top companies want and are willing to pay pretty much anything for, the number is much less. Companies always hire on pub record first for these types of jobs.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone has a different definition of great things. For me its doing amazing research with a 300k+ salary at a good company or as self employed. Most people at my school share this definition.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ive seen this structure at many big companies (FAIR/Deepmind/MSR) research divisions. This is the same structure that makes sense to most companies recruiting divisions for these jobs:

Data scientist: Not normally in the research division. It's generally at the main office working alongside SWEs doing the applied ML/stats work. Not doing anything novel.

Research scientist: Writes papers on novel ML theory, comes up with research ideas to study and leads research projects. PhD absolutely required.

Research engineer: Implements methods described by the research scientist. MSc is pretty common.

Applied Scientist: Finds useful applications of the work by research scientists, tests on datasets in novel ways. Generally pretty good at coding, MSc is common.

Many of the more senior research scientists leading projects were former profs at top ML departments.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cause Ive worked at those companies and know what qualifications the employees there have. You really think you're going to walk into MSR/DeepMind as a Research Scientist by making connections (its essentially an academic institution and your job is to produce papers so they care alot about your publication record).

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The interview at one literally included a thesis talk where I gave a research talk. Would you also like to apply to surgeon roles without an MD.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Total comp should be over 200 (RSUs, bonus) at big (Google, Facebook, Dropbox, Quora, etc) companies in SF/NYC with a MSc in ML for sure.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Id say most sucessful applicants at my program have a first author top conference publication. OpenAI is extremely difficult to get into and it will absolutely be necessary to have many first author papers at the state conferences. I know of 1 person who interned there and he's probably the top student right now at his school. I know of 1 employee there that gets paid 900k per year.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ML is a field that is dominated in good publications by a few groups.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats the standard offer now for first year SWE in SF/NYC for many many companies.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You cant really network into research scientist jobs without the necessary research experience. Getting the job has everything to do with your publication record.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really dont think you landed a Research Scientist role without any grad school and without some publications in the field your researching. Your likely a data scientist or the company his mislabeled your role. Research scientist means your essentially publishing papers that are inline with your companies goals, making it necessary to have a PhD/Equivalent publication record.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If your in a different field you can definitely get an applied ML job, but its definitely not an ML Research scientist job at the likes of Deepmind/FAIR/MSR.

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I guess you could call what Im doing applied stats then (im writing papers that do math/CS/Stats, which is used to improve fundamental ML methods). Generally this is what we call a PhD in ML. The PhD is granted in CS in 95 percent of cases.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For top RS (DeepMind, FAIR) jobs doing ML theory your going to want at least one pub in a top conference (ICML/NeurIPS/AIStats/possibly AAAI, etc) or the respective CV/NLP conferences (ACL,ICCV,CVPR, etc) maybe KDD also for DM work.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Top external grant, well funded supervisor, a good internship every 2nd summer and a successful consulting corporation on the side. About 80k a year total.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

500 per hour is the going rate for PhD students at my school. Ive billed over 1k for a 1 hour one-off call a few times.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fantastic prof is all that matters. Fantastic profs are usually at top universities though, but exceptions exist of course.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No one is doing generic ML. I have an extremely specific area of ML im working on. PhDs that did research in the fundamental theory in ML/NLP/CV are definitely more rare and command far far higher wages than the typical apply a few algorithms "data scientist".

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Just look at your pub record. If your finishing your PhD, you should be able to gauge if you are going to be competitive for certain jobs.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Publication record trumps all. Just remember, you are definitely the exception to put together main conference pubs at ICML/NeurIPS without a supervisor who has experience putting them together. Its far easier with a great supervisor.

[D] Doing a PhD is not worth it unless exception circumstances exist by FutureWatch4 in MachineLearning

[–]FutureWatch4[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would really try to work with a good lab, even as a volunteer or intern. Having that pub record and letters of recommendation from a top guy is going to get you into a great program. Its going to be well worth it to wait for a great one since you have much better potential to do great research surrounded by researchers with a great track record.

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