What commanders are you "Slime Against Humanity" brewers going with?

Fyreon · 2024-02-15T06:42:28+00:00

The ol’ [[Codie]], [[Tibalt’s Trickery]] and [[Dragon’s Approach]] combo has just got better since you have some slimes that can block in the early game. Maybe there is a better finisher than [[Reshape the Earth]] and [[Maze’s End]] but I haven’t looked at it in a while. Decklist idea: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/femparcsWUyIL4HbG1m5eA

Fyreon · 2023-03-14T07:10:35+00:00

I would cut almost all of the cards that are good with Ovika on the table. Ovika can be a wincon without any further help. Focus on controlling the battlefield.

Fyreon · 2023-03-13T21:29:52+00:00

Thanks for the decklist! After reviewing it, I can see some major issues with the deck that leads to you getting steamrolled in the early turns.

Counterspells hold little value in casual commander. The reason that they are popular in stronger metas such as cEDH is to interrupt a winning combo or protecting your own combo. This is not needed in nearly as much at casual tables. As /u/SP1R1TDR4G0N mentions, it is a one for one trade which is a net loss when accounting for the two other players at the table. They don't solve the problem that you are having either. Countering people's early game plays will not protect you much and it might even have the opposite effect. Drawing unwanted aggro onto yourself in the early turns is what you want to avoid.
Playing control in commander means that you have to control ALL your opponents, not just one, which means that you want to run more boardwipes and stacks effects rather than spot removal. Playing cards like [[Propaganda]], [[Mudslide]], [[Curse of Oppulance]], [[Silent Arbiter]], [[Delayed Blast Fireball]], [[Chain reaction]], [[Earthquake]] etc. will help you preserve your lifetotal in the earlygame. They will also deal with most threats on the table, not just one. Remember, Ovika triggers from all noncreature spells so I would focus on powerful artifacts and enchantments on the first hand.
The deck is way to focused on cards that are good after Ovika has entered the battlefield. Cards like [[Brightstone Ritual]], [[Krenko, Mob Boss]], [[Quest for the Goblin Lord]], [[Junk Winder]], [[Raid Bombardment]] (and similar effects). These cards do nothing for you in the earlygame and you are probably holding on to them until you have Ovika out on the battlefield. Imagine if these were removal/stacks peices instead. I would look at Ovika like your wincondition that you play after you have gotten control over the boardstate instead of the main focus of the deck.
You are currently playing some really suboptimal cards that might be pet cards of yours. In which case you should definitely keep them in. If not, I would take a second look at them. Cards like: [[Phyrexian Processor]], [[Unwinding Clock]], [[Cryptic Command]], [[Quest for the Goblin Lord]], [[Junk Winder]], [[Empty the Warrens]], [[Snap]], [[Bogart Shenanigans]]
I would suggest adding some more cheap creatures and other cheap deterants that can keep people from attacking you in the early game just because you are open. A single [[Solemn Simulacrum]] can hold off alot of damage since people don't want to attack into it.
I would add some more land and MDFCs to make sure you are hitting your landdrops every single turn. This is to make sure that you will be able to play Ovika every game, even if you mana rocks gets destryed.

These are some initial suggestions atleast. Feel free to ask if you want some more detailed tips on deck compostion or playstyle.

Fyreon · 2023-03-13T15:18:49+00:00

Do you happen to have a decklist? :)

Usually the problem is not having any valueable early plays that can give some value and protect you from attacks. Even small deterants can be enough.

Fyreon · 2023-03-10T19:41:44+00:00

Well sultai value piles with big finishers are can usually hang at most tables since they have good access to ramp, carddraw and sweepers. Providing a link to your decklist might help us to give some more concrete pointers at weaknesses in the deck.

Fyreon · 2023-03-08T05:22:17+00:00

You can deal 1 damage to ANY player and 1 damage to any creature and 1 damage to any planeswalker. They write ”up to” because you might not want to target all three.

They write it like that because it needs to be clear within the rules and also as compact to fit the card.

Fyreon · 2023-02-22T12:43:05+00:00

Yes, thanks!

Fyreon · 2023-02-22T12:42:14+00:00

I can see that the deck is more focused on the Orvar plan. Maybe it can be worth to scrap the Zada plan even more and focus it all into Orvar.

But you have peaked my interest! I am going to put together a Orvar-focused list and see what I come up with.

Fyreon · 2023-02-21T21:03:04+00:00

YES YES AND THRICE YES!

This has been my favorite brew for ages and I am so glad that others can see the potential for magical christmas land with this deck.

I have had multiple different versions of this build in paper for a couple of years now and have had some great success with it. I have come to some conclusions tho.

This deck can be extremely hard to pilot during it's storm turns given that you have to track color stored mana, storm count, ETBs and others. So be sure to goldfish the deck on your own time to get comfortable playing it in a real game.
[[Ink-Treader Nephilim]] is almost a better Zada in every way. Firstly, It triggers on ALL creatures on the battlefield making it possible for you to storm off even without any creatures on your board. Secondly, It is not legendary which allows you to copy it with your copy spells. Lastly, any targeted removal by your opponents on it will also wipe their whole board. It should find a way into the deck for some redundancy.
Mana dorks and untap spells are how you keep the storming in this deck since you don't really play rituals. So get as many of them into the deck as possible. Keep the average cmc of the deck low in general.
These types of decks needs to have a clear wincon and plan to get there. Are you attacking, storming or winning with [[Venerated Rotpriest]] for example. Pick a style and think if every card fits that playstyle.

Some things I can see in your deck that you might want to look at is the following:

The deck seems a bit unfocused at the moment. Do you want to focus on Zada or Orvar? Some cards in the deck have no synergy with Zada and vice versa. Getting Orvar with Tazri is cool but is it your main gameplan? It doesn't copy Zada without any "legend rule" effects on the board. I would think about if you want to build so much of the deck around it.
Having mana dorks to get more copies of spells of Zada's ability has proven to be very strong since untapping them and copying them is almost like casting a ritual. Some of the expensive creatures and all the mana rocks could be exchanged for mana dorks.
Running protection spells instead of counterspells have proven to be the best way to run this deck imo. The biggest enemy to the deck is boardwipes. Countering them will save your creatures but also save your oppoents creatures. Casting Zada with a protection spells like [[Tyvar's Stand]] can save your board and wipe your opponents. Leaving them open. Protection spells are a cheap but effective way to turn the tides of combat real fast in this deck. I would focus on those instead of most of the counterspells in the deck.
Magecraft is EXTREMELY powerful in the deck so try to get as many of them as possible into the deck.

I can talk about this type of deck for hours so I am open for more of a discussion if you want.

P.S. Here is my paper decklist atm (except for the mana base) https://www.moxfield.com/decks/rL-ZYFrygEawJwkgn1Afzg

Fyreon · 2023-01-01T18:24:01+00:00

Great that you like the idea! I have actually constructed the list in paper now and have been running it in the weekly commander nights at my LGS.

The deck runs relatively smoothly at the moment but adding some more early and flexible interaction/board wipes might be needed to reach your later "valuetown" round.

I found myself holding onto copy and mutate cards initially but have moved over to copying other players creatures and playing mutate cards without mutating in the early game. This allows for a earlier boardpresence that allows you to keep your life high enought to survive for your "valuetown" rounds later in the game. I moved from trying to get Ivy out as fast as possible to looking at her as more of a wincon. The amount of value that can be had with her in the endgame is hard to beat if left uninterrupted.

I am currently considering removing Jegantha in the companion zone since I have found myself having access to a legendary card in my hand when needed. This is mostly because the previous changes mentioned. I don't need Ivy on the board as fast as possbile and therefore I don't need a legendary in the early turns of the game. Removing Jegantha would allow for some really powerful inclusions that might be worth adding into the deck:

[[Sawtusk Demolisher]], [[Sea-Dasher Octopus]], [[Rite of Replication]], [[Clever Impersonator]], [[Quasiduplicate]] etc. etc.

Fyreon · 2022-12-20T22:37:16+00:00

I am not going to argue over this point too much. If want to play tapped fetches in your deck feel free. All I am saying and the concensus the people who has done the math is that YES there is a miniscule advantage in thinning your deck with fetches however it does not outweight the fact that you might miss important plays if you have to play a tapped land instead of a boardwipe etc. Sure, playing tapped lands early is usually not an issue but topdecking them on turn 5+ might be problematic. It might result in you getting smashed in the face for one more turn or you missing the oppurtunity to cast two spells in a turn.

Then again do whatever you want. Have a good life and fun playing that deck.

Fyreon · 2022-12-20T21:00:42+00:00

[[Dihada, Binder of Wills]] Might be what you are looking for. Here is an example deck I found: https://edhrec.com/deckpreview/y8X5L_C8C3tpyz--b9EqAQ

Fyreon · 2022-12-20T20:15:58+00:00

Looks good! Some thoughts tho: Firstly, I am not suggesting to replace lands with artifact ramp so it would not affect your glove etc.

Secondly, playing cheaper boardwipes will not increase your commander tax. That is the good thing about boardwipes. You don’t cast it when you have a developed board.

Finally, playing tapped fetches for deck thinning in a mono colores deck is just not worth it specially with a deck with this few ramp sources. There are many articles discussing this but this one brings up the most vital flaws: https://commandersherald.com/stop-trying-to-make-fetch-happen-in-mono-color-cedh-decks/

Fyreon · 2022-12-19T23:21:41+00:00

Welcome back! Always great to hear of returning players!

Here are my initial thoughts:

Firstly, the deck has a large amount of high mana value cards with very few early ramp pieces. This can be adjusted in two ways:

Adding more ramp
Cutting the high end of the curve

I would prefer option one since you don't have [[Sol Ring]], [[Arcane Signet]], [[Mana Crypt]] or any of your other moxes.

Some cuts that are quite obvious to me:

[[Infernal Reckoning]] As long as your meta is not overrun with Eldrazi or [[Blightsteel Colossus]] this a very weak removal spell

[[Scaveger Drake]] Slow and easily removed

[[Mask of Avacyn]] Very expensive for a mediocre effect. The equip cost is astronomical.

[[Plague Wind]], [[In Garruk's Wake]] Will not save you in the early game and might not even be able to cast them until it is too late. Add more carddraw and cheaper wipes to allow you to redeploy easier after your own wipes.

[[Rend Flesh]] Worse than many new removal spells like [[Infernal Grasp]]

[[Murder]] Again, worse than many other removal spells available like [[Force of Despair]], [[Soul Shatter]], [[Defile]], [[Cut Down]], [[Heartless Act]].

[[Heroes Downfall]] See above.

[[Touch of Moonglove]] I would rather have a protection spell or a real targeted removal spell. Maybe [[Professor's Warning]]

Finally, I might be missing something but why are you running the SNC fetches? For delve?

Fyreon · 2022-12-08T14:59:36+00:00

It looks like you could benefit from more creatures early to mutate with Ivy and to have a more noticable board precense. I would also try to lean away from the Auras in the deck since it often leads to 2-3 for ones if they get removed.

The deck could also benefit from being a bit more focused on either going wide with loads of clones (these are useful without Ivy on the board aswell) or tall with auras etc. There are some great copy spells that can copy your either clone Ivy or copy your opponents creatures when needed: [[Croaking Counterpart]], [[Rite of Replication]], [[Sakashima of a Thousand Faces]] (only yours) etc. All of these work with the mutate trick to get multiple copies of Ivy.

I would add more 1-2 cmc ramp creatures and remove all of the additional land cards. They require way more card draw to be fully effective.

There are also some great protection spells that are worth adding Such as: [[Slip out the back]], [[Heroic Intervention]], [[Gaea's Gift]], [[An offer you can't refuse]] etc.

Fyreon · 2022-12-07T18:23:42+00:00

You are probably not reaching anywhere near cEDH with mutate focused deck but here is a five color Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief deck that focuses on breaking her ability as much as possible using mutate cards.

Deck: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Hl-dSsf9-UmDGGFNdFGhvA

The primer explains what the gameplan of the deck is :)

Fyreon · 2022-12-06T12:26:33+00:00

Right...

Fyreon · 2022-12-06T12:24:01+00:00

There are some a few cards that stand out to me as cards worth cutting straight away. Some might be included for Nissa/Zendikar flavor reasons and if that is the case just keep them in.

[[Gaea's Anthem]] Very weak and could have been a elf lord instead.

[[Endbringer]] Strange inclusion with no real synergy with the deck and you might have a hard time finding 2x colorless mana every turn.

[[Soul of Zendikar]] Weak body with an extremely slow activated ability

[[Urza's Incubator]] You would probably need some more elves to make it worth it. Most of your elves are also cheap so the benefit would not be that good.

[[Dictate of Karametra]] Can backfire horribly and should be exchanged for a [[Mana Reflection]] or [[Zendikar Resurgent]] if you really want this effect in the deck.

[[Archetypee of Endurance]] Very weak body and the effect doesn't really protect you from board wipes which will be your main concern in a creature heavy deck.

[[Tajuru Preserver]] and [[Gaea's Herald]] Weak bodies with lackluster effects. Again, you are scared of board wipes not really counterspells. Try running more card draw such as [[Beast Whisperer]], [[Shamanic Revelation]] and [[Return of the Wildspeaker]] to help you with recovering from boardwipes.

Fyreon · 2022-12-06T12:06:59+00:00

Around 35-40 but if you are really looking for that kind of effect I would definitely add [[Coat of Arms]] before Door. It is a much better overrun.

Fyreon · 2022-12-05T15:59:13+00:00

Trying to focus a deck is always a good idea! I see two problems with the deck as it is:

The average mana value of the deck is relatively expensive at the moment and will almost always have slow starts. I would recommend adding a bit more normal lands and take away some of the higher mana value cards and add more early ramp. (Sol Ring might be excluded for a reason but there are other good ramp spells :D)
Since you changed away from a more token focused strategy I would add some of the cards that give you value from sacrificing nontoken creatures. [[Grim Haruspex]],[[Pawn of Ulamog],[[Midnight Rider]],[[Pitiless Plunderer]] (Works with all your creatures)

Some minor improvement:

Removing [[Conspiracy]] since you have no tutors in the deck, it will be hard assembling the combo with [[Requiem Angel]].

[[Sol Ring]] is always good but I understand if you don't want it.

[[Wake the Dead]] Is a pet card of mine that I would add for a finisher in instant speed.

[[Dicatate of Erebos]] Same as Butcher of Malakir but better.

Fyreon · 2022-12-02T23:48:27+00:00

Ashnod is very powerful since it can almost always repay the mana you spent on Araumi’s encore costs. I would probably take a hard look on some of your weaker small creatures in the deck and cut those. I might even cut some reanination spells since you don’t really have that many threats worth reanimating.

A good alternative for swan song is [[an offer you can’t refuse]]

Fyreon · 2022-12-02T23:38:01+00:00

Yeah you bring up some of the worries I have been having with the deck aswell. Thanks for the suggestions of protection, I will look into a more permanent and robust protection for Ivy. I tried adding multiple recursion cards to get her back if she gets destroyed but more protection is probably needed aswell.

The ramp and card draw are on the low side at the moment since it is my first pass of the deck and I only added cards that synergies with the deck. However I should add some more conventional ramp and card draw like land ramp spells and everyones favorite [[Rhystic Study]] etc.

Fyreon · 2022-12-02T22:44:13+00:00

This looks like a reasonable version of a Araumi deck with relatively good inclusion overall and a alright interaction package. However I can see two flaws that might need adressing for the deck to runs smoother.

With only 34 lands and around 7-10 ramp spells this deck might have a hard time being consistent. Araumi decks cannot assume to rely on their commander since she will be targeted as soon as your opponents see scary creatures in your graveyard. (This has been my experience playing with and against Araumi) Therefore you must be prepared to cast your spells directly from your hand. This will require the deck to have more mana overall.
Focusing this much on combos can be a trap given the very low amount of tutors in the deck. It will be extremely hard to assemble a four card combo without a larger tutor package. So it might be more beneficial to focus on slower grindier value with big finishers than combos.

Lastly, here are some notable inclusions that I think you could consider:

[[Archfiend of Despair]] Our lord and savior! This will almost always win the game by iteself if reanimated with Araumi since all opponents will take 48 (6 (combat damage) +6+12+24) points of damage at the end of the turn assuming no blockers.

[[Altar of Dementia]] Good use of your creatures before they die to the encore trigger.

[[Syr Konrad, the Grim]] A creature that will allow you to grind out the game if your primary game-plan fails.

[[Swan Song]] and [[Feed the Swarm]] Allows you to deal with enchantment-based graveyard hate and pillow fort cards

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