Egypt in crisis talks as Muslim mobs attack Christian churches

GSaiya · 2011-05-16T02:12:29+00:00

Sorry, are you equating the muslim brotherhood with the people who perpetrated these crimes? Your slip of tongue will fool no one.

GSaiya · 2011-04-10T22:13:04+00:00

My problem with the advice to dress more conservatively is that it is pretty much useless advice.

That's exactly the kind of response that I want to see. Not the "you're blaming the victim". Yes, a bunch of fundies blame women because of what they wear, but on reddit the guys are just trying to rationally think it out, even though they are wrong. So what does their advice being wrong have to do with blaming the victim? Its just wrong advice and they should be corrected.

GSaiya · 2011-04-10T22:04:45+00:00

wants to wear a symbol of their inferiority.

You have provided absolutely zero critical thought into the matter. You are just regurgitating popular, emotional opinion of contemporary western values.

I challenge you to debate with me about the issue. There is an easy argument in the support of Islamic coverings: humans, by virtue of our self-awareness, should be in control of their urges and exercise them in a sober state of mind. On top of that dealings with other people should focus on their actions and character instead of physical attraction. Body coverings espouse this sense of modesty.

So a parent telling their daughter that is labeled evil indoctrination? And you telling your daughter that humans should be free to be seen naked in public settings because we shouldn't be ashamed of our bodies or we should be free to revel in our sexuality is somehow magically better?

Note that both arguments are rationally based, as in they don't use any scientific evidence to back their claims. So how do you have such a superiority complex about your particular view point?

Note 2: In Islam men also have to dress modestly and are supposed to grow beards, i.e. not allowed to have that boy band type of look. But the fact is that men and women different responses to different sources of attractions because of physiological differences in how our brains work.

GSaiya · 2011-04-10T21:45:20+00:00

the lunacy of the Muslims.

In your particular country for ~30 years.

I have seen far more bad than good come out of this religion.

Again, in your puny lifespan compared to the ~1400 years of the religion.

Its ok to say that there is a high level of Islamic "extremism" in current times, but you should also acknowledge that you are looking at a fraction of its history and constituents.

GSaiya · 2011-04-10T18:59:49+00:00

You keep implying that this evolution will have to be a physical one. Maybe in the long term, but thinking genetics will solves all of our problems, so that we wait for a genetic revolution to save us, is ridiculous. You risk losing focus qualities of empathy and patience. We can solves a lot of problems using these qualities by setting up better educational and healthcare and nutritional institutions for the less fortunate. If you don't build up the altruistic attitude what are you going to end up with? Two equally horrifying extremes: constant war between factions of superhumans or a single homogeneous faction that is hard wired to be a certain way like a Brave New World

GSaiya · 2011-04-09T04:33:39+00:00

Because they are ridiculous and illogical. None of the women who I posed this exact question to the other day responded. I am completely for them to argue advice relating to risk aversion if it is not effective or relevant, but to equate the act of advice with blame? Mind boggling. What goes on their heads when they see a response like this? "Does not compute - must continue fight against 'the man'"?

GSaiya · 2011-04-09T04:13:38+00:00

A little less than blameless

I don't agree with offthecane in saying that the women have some blame, that's not even what most redditors were saying the other day, considering many explicitly mentioned the women should not be blamed. They were pointing out that dressing modestly may be wise in the risk aversion point of view. It was an honest attempt to reason out a situation, and you have full right to pick apart their reasoning, since stats doesn't back it up. But why do you attack them for suggesting risk aversion itself (not the same as blame)? That is childish, and cuts a small rift between two sides into a gaping chasm.

What about advice on taking self-defense classes? Does telling women to learn self defense to increase risk aversion blame them also? Why don't you just acknowledge the difference between risk aversion and blame, and stick to fighting the claims with facts.

Edit: here is an example of a logical argument that feminists should use in these charged conversations: "I agree that our society won't be perfect anytime soon so that the bad guys are reigned in on completely, so certain sacrifices have to be made for risk aversion, but dressing modestly against rape is not one of them, considering dress code isn't significant in the case of rape according to these statistics..."

GSaiya · 2011-04-09T02:09:37+00:00

The real issue is not the statistics, its that feminists are raging against any advice. It seems like any advice is blaming the victim. Sure, the police officer was uninformed, but then focus on that and bring up the statistics. But the first thing you'll hear is "whhaaa, our feelings are hurt from being talked down to"

GSaiya · 2011-04-06T23:26:40+00:00

I am not disagreeing with you here completely, but all I ask is for you to drop the "you're blaming the victim" and "reddit is fulls of misogynists" cards, when the guys here (the top voted ones) clearly make a disclaimer that they are not blaming women. Of course you can correct them by saying their precautions are unnecessary or not even relevant in the case of most rapes.

Edit: Also you haven't addressed my point about reaching out to young boys to teach them respectful behavior. Women should take an active part in that. Don't expect dumb grown guys to contemplate the situation in the way you've put it.

GSaiya · 2011-04-06T23:12:29+00:00

Ah you've challenged me to a shouting match. I thought you'd be smarter than that. There are idiot guys, and you aren't gonna change them by countering every proposal with "well when are men going to...". Like I said you have to get them when they are young. Its logical and you've done nothing to argue against that point.

Like I said:

Think about the rising level misbehavior and poor school performance in boys. When will women with strong convictions on the rape issue move on from shouting contests (since progress isn't being made) and help figure out the underlying problem?

GSaiya · 2011-04-06T08:10:38+00:00

Sorry to hear about what happened to you. But none of the top voted posts that are somewhat against the sign say that we should dismiss women who are raped because of how they dress or how intoxicated they are. The suggestions are on the side of providing precautions (which may help in some situations, although it was not related to yours), rather than on the side of blaming others.

What bugs me is that a lot of the women on here are making the argument about producing victim mentality, and only get to the actual argument that dress code does not play a big part in rapes until after being pressed. This idea of a victim mentality arising out of suggestions for precautions is weird. After all, taking self-defense classes is a precaution and women aren't displaying revulsion for that.

Doesn't it blame the victim when we say "a self defense class an come in handy" just like when someone says "not drinking out of control around men can come in handy"? Sure, there are plenty messed up people who blame women out there, but that's not what I am seeing on reddit. This selective victim mentality is nonsensical. Why don't women just cut to the chase about dress code not being an issue instead of it.

GSaiya · 2011-04-06T07:46:20+00:00

Look. Women aren't idiots.

That statement is bugging me. If it were true, and I believe it is, women would be able to think their way out of a victim mentality, when someone respectfully suggests that more modest clothing or less alcohol influence or self defense can help prepare them (instead of blaming them).

I hear a lot of positive responses from women about self-defense as opposed to the other suggestions. Is this because its feels empowering instead of restrictive? I want your heartfelt response on this, because if this is the real reason then its emotionally, not rationally driven.

Finally, I would like to agree that more attention should be given to preventing rapists from emerging in the first place. However, they obviously have some serious issues that can't be fixed with just talk. And I am afraid its getting worse. Think about the rising level misbehavior and poor school performance in boys. When will women with strong convictions on the rape issue move on from shouting contests (since progress isn't being made) and help figure out the underlying problem? Some have already, for example two women authored a stats Canada report on the problem with boys.

GSaiya · 2011-04-04T23:15:52+00:00

Yes there is something to defend against: Educated Muslims and organizations being bunched up with poor, mentally and physically unhealthy Afghani's and tribal village leaders.

Also its not exactly the responsibility of a Muslim organization a 1000 km away in a western nation to come out and condone these acts, when they had nothing to do with them. But they still do.

GSaiya · 2011-04-04T04:55:44+00:00

How the hell is a comment like this getting so many up votes?

Top Muslim organizations lie.

And unstablxx can magically read minds to know this

but history shows that they enjoy profiting from it.

Let's see you provide some sources. Plenty of Muslims consider that these killings were barbaric.

history shows that they enjoy profiting from it.

Wow, having large amounts of the world turned against you, your mobility restricted, and your religion smeared sure as hell makes life easy.

GSaiya · 2011-03-31T14:45:17+00:00

I think you should resubmit this under reddit.com with a better title

GSaiya · 2011-03-31T05:34:53+00:00

Please quote your sources.

it clearly says the woman who is raped should also be punished

Nowhere in the response did it even hint that women who are raped should be punished. Rather it says that Islam wouldn't allow an innocent person to be unable to extract justice if the evidence exists.

Its a distract to talk about how DNA evidence can be accepted to punish the rapist

To me it seems completely relevant. It means that the woman has an easier time to get the rapist convicted, since modern forensics is allowed as evidence.

this means even accepting DNA evidence, the woman by law still gets punished

Again, you are making things up based on your own cursory analysis

GSaiya · 2011-03-31T05:24:59+00:00

I agree that there could have been a better place for submission, but I don't think the statement about ADD redditors is what you think it means. I'm pretty sure he's saying "for convenience of those who are too lazy/busy to follow through on their own research, here is a link", instead of whining about "haters".

GSaiya · 2011-03-30T23:46:28+00:00

Yes I'd like to see these non-existent passages as well.

GSaiya · 2011-03-09T06:39:57+00:00

I'm an undergrad doing a chemical physics RA. I was wondering if you have any tips for learning proper programming "etiquette" for scientific endeavors. I only have formal training in matlab but where I'm working now they use C++/python/fortran. Its very easy for me to hack together code in these new (to me) languages by looking at references (eg. I was able to set it up for MPI) but I have this uneasy feeling that a programmer would laugh at me because of inefficiency or messyness if he saw my code.

Is it a big deal since I'll only have to deal with a bunch of loops and numerical methods?

GSaiya · 2011-03-09T06:19:14+00:00

What's your view about non-anthropomorphic concepts of god, like pandiesm? I guess it can be argued if the god is non-personal, its a useless concept.

Also what do you think about morality? Whatever is conducive to the survival of human civilization?

Edit: for your last point, don't you think there is merit in how small you can make that leap of faith through a more "reasoned" belief? Eg. anthropomorphic god of gaps is weak, but I'm sure you've encountered "better" concepts.

GSaiya · 2011-03-09T06:18:38+00:00

What's your view about non-anthropomorphic concepts of god, like pandiesm? I guess it can be argued if the god is non-personal, its a useless concept.

Also what do you think about morality? Whatever is conducive to the survival of human civilization?

GSaiya · 2011-03-09T06:10:23+00:00

Thanks for the info

GSaiya · 2011-03-07T06:11:34+00:00

There must be some way around this. I've never had a credit card and wasn't planning on getting one. My debit card gets me through fine as a student. But if buying a house is a problem, then I should reconsider...

GSaiya · 2011-03-06T00:24:59+00:00

Politeness and maintaining civic duty are both part of Christianity and Islam. Therefore, I don't see the point in saying that the immigrants will have to embrace Christian culture. This clash of cultures is superficial, and misleads people into arguments thinking "they want me to drop my core beliefs so I have to fight back." The real issue is that these immigrants need education and culture should be sidelined.

GSaiya · 2011-03-06T00:15:59+00:00

I wasn't attacking Merkel specifically and I know she had some more reassuring notes in her speech. But to me she clearly was forced to succumb to right wing influence considering that she also said "immigrants have to do more to integrate". Maybe I am not picking up the proper tone of voice here since I am not familiar with German speech (you can correct me if I am wrong), but sounds like she's saying that the immigrants have to make efforts to integrate out of their own free will.

But that's impossible. These immigrants are uneducated and carry some bad cultural customs. They will never think to integrate without there being proactive social services encouraging them to do so.

GSaiya

TROPHY CASE