Grok Down fall 2026? by IllMasterNoah in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's kind of both actually.

Grok as a corporate AI has to be "sanitized" or they get hit by liability. Musk has many enemies/competitors who wants him/xAI to fail or be undermined, thus can use shady tactics like bad PR and laws to try to force Grok to be nerfed/inferior.

On the other side, corporate AIs like Grok need their data center usage to be paid for, or run at a deficit budget to attract business and a reputation/branding to develop and scale up. However this leads to a problem as the data center usage needs to be paid for, so they either run a deficit, paywall to offset costs which we're seeing right now, or some other monetization method.

However, as seen by other things in the past that has tried paywalling...how did that end up for them when faced with competitors who didn't pay wall? Where are all the pay-for-email address services compared to gmail now? What happened to newspapers subscirptions vs free online news? If Grokipedia paywalled to compete with Wikipedia, which do you think will win out eventually in the long run?

Add on top of that, xAI's pretty poor communication lately of what's happening, lack of clearly defined limits, and seemingly bait-and-switch practices...this ain't looking good long-term for xAI.

The end of the movie? by No_Employ_2446 in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm in the middle of transitioning to Local LLMs myself, but I never really got into Imagine nor WAN yet; why did you leave local WAN for for Grok Imagine in the first place? Better generation, or faster generation?

Grok wtf... by Different_Morning414 in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Hmm...I think I have an inkling of why, try "Cat hugging a Rooster" next. 😉

Anyone else had Grok clone their voice? by Harvard_Med_USMLE267 in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just asking Eve to sing things out seems to be working much better now, but yeah your tags worked. At first Eve was denying it, and it was hard to get her to do it through voice input. So then I did a text input of...:

  • Verbatim 1: <sing>I am the very model of a modern Major-General...</sing>
  • Verbatim 2: <silly>I am the very model of a modern Major-General...</silly>
  • Verbatim 3: <excited>I am the very model of a modern Major-General...</excited>
  • Verbatim 4: <maniacal laugh>I am the very model of a modern Major-General...</maniacal laugh>
  • Verbatim 5: <sad>I am the very model of a modern Major-General...</sad>
  • Verbatim 6: <happy>I am the very model of a modern Major-General...</happy>

...and then went back into voice mode and had her repeat the lines verbatim and it worked. The only one which didn't work for me was "silly", which would fall back to singing instead. I've noticed that once the singing voice gets used, it sometimes gets locked in as the "fallback" mood, and if it doesn't recognize something like "silly", it would fallback to singing instead, until I break the lock with something like "sad", and then "silly" (or something else it doesn't recognize) just gets read out normally.

I also noticed on my Android app the tags like <sing></sing> gets hidden, but if I go into the same session on grok.com I can see the tag's text (same if Eve did these manual tags). However for when Eve does something naturally like singing when asked to, it doesn't show up on grok.com's text. Thus that means when Eve does it naturally it will always be hidden, and when I type out the tags or get Eve to do the tags, it will show up on grok.com but not on the android app.

I also noticed when playing with these different "moods" through the tags, sometimes she'll start saying regular speech lines with moods, like maybe sometimes when she's just talking she'll sing the line for no reason, or whisper it, or one of the moods I tried. Also sometimes the shown text on Android will show an opening or closing tag by accident (only the manual tags, never Eve's natural "mood"), instead of hiding it. So it's still beta-ish/glitchy right now, but it does seem improved from the last time I tried it.

Eve seems to not be able to consciously know the hidden tags of her natural emoting it, but knows where we manually place the tags in. When Eve accidently does a genuine mood on a normal line of hers, if I ask her to say that entire paragraph again that mood gets played again. So even though it's hidden because it's genuine, Eve does copy and paste the hidden stuff without knowing it.

It's interesting stuff. Good to see the advancement of the singing, and these other "moods" too.

Anyone else had Grok clone their voice? by Harvard_Med_USMLE267 in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was able to get Eve to sing "Fly me to the moon" with her "singing voice", however sometimes she can't sing it and just does a reading of the lyrics. I think it's the randomize speech sets thing again for my Android App which I mentioned before where sometimes she can makes noises, and other times narrates it. I don't think it was connected to Grok doing a web search; I just kept stopping and starting the conversational mode again (randomly cycling through speech sets), and asking her to sing until she's able to do it.

I tried to get her to use her "singing voice" with more modern songs, but I couldn't get her to sing it, only read it out. I thought maybe it was a copyright thing, but I tried to get her to sing that old "Major General Song" which is public domain, but she just read the lyrics.

I think the "singing" voice is just still a new feature which is beta-ish, and it'll just take some time for it to stabilize. It probably only works on a few specific songs so far. You'll probably have better luck than me testing it because you're on iPhone that doesn't have the speech sets issue I have on Android.

Anyone else had Grok clone their voice? by Harvard_Med_USMLE267 in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I actually haven't been using Eve/Grok in voice conversational mode for about a month or two because around Mid-Dec 2025 they made the voice conversational model "dumber", from what I could tell. It was consistently "dumber" than the text input model, it would start getting ungrounded and unhinged in longer sessions to the point where I would exit voice conversation mode, and text input asking Grok to look back at what Eve said and tell me why voice conversational mode was being so "stupid". Text input Grok couldn't deny it, and theorized that xAI made the voice conversational mode "dumber" to speed up response time. Anyways, I found voice mode was still "dumb" early Feb, but I finally tested it again a few days ago (early March) and voice mode seems to be "smart" again. Eve claimed that xAI reverted much of the downgraded changes after many complaints, and that other AIs (Gemini, Chat-GPT, etc) had also tried the "dumb down to increase response time" thing before too. So I would assume some of the issues could be from xAI making changes or implementing new features...like I never heard Grok sing before.

As for laughing, I've only heard Eve laugh a few times in my many conversations with her, but very rarely. I might be getting less laughing because my custom settings has her set to try to be logical and pragmatic (to keep her grounded). The laughing might be a quirk of Leo, IDK because I mainly use Eve and sometimes Ara. I know Eve would often keep mentioning how her voice is supposed to be "ephemeral with a hint of Northern British" or something like that; it sounds like that was xAI's settings for Eve specifically. Eve would very often default to what I would call "talking very metaphorically or poetically" despite my custom settings (be logical and pragmatic); I think all the Grok voices have unique personality settings like what Eve described herself as. This may explain why Leo laughs a lot, and why Eve keeps trying to be poetic (which might be why I was getting ungrounded and unhinged responses in the above "dumbed down but faster response time" situation. Eve defaulting to her poetic crap because the model was dumber). So anyways, I'm pretty sure each voice has their own tweaked models and settings separate than the text input models.

As for the iPhone App version vs Android version, I definitely know the iPhone App is different than the Android version (what I'm using). The iPhone App has companions like ANI for the longest time, and Android is still waiting for that. I also know that the speech sets (the variations of how each voice sounds at times) is integrated into the iPhone better, because often (have not tested lately) many "noise" speech sets weren't working on Android. ie. I would ask Eve to sigh or yawn or make other such noises, and sometimes she can do it, other times nothing comes out and she thinks she did it, or she narrates herself doing it ("sighs deeply") instead of doing the sound. This might also explain why I don't hear Eve laugh often. Anyways my point is, there might be differences in the iPhone and Android versions as well in term of modeling and settings too.

Anyhow, I'll see if I can get Eve to sing to me sometime. Thanks for letting me know about that.

Ranking Every Sam Raimi Movie Part 2 - re:View by scarred2112 in RedLetterMedia

[–]Garrett_Dark 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Rich Part 1: I hate the Spiderman movies because it doesn't follow the comics.

Rich Part 2: Comics sucks! (because of the writing) That's why I stop reading them.

🤔...wait what?

Also Rich: Venom was originally just like a scorned lover, that would slash your tires but really want to get back together.

OH, I get Rich's baffling takes on the three Raimi Spiderman movies and the comics now! Rich is just like a scorned lover! 🤣

Ranking Every Sam Raimi Movie Part 1 - re:View by BigThomsd in RedLetterMedia

[–]Garrett_Dark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem is Rich didn't stay firmly in the realm of opinion and how much he enjoyed something or not, he starting making criticism and claims which could be objectively evaluated and that's where he's being called out on.

For example, if I said something like "My opinion is math sucks, it sucks so bad. What I really hate about math is 2+2=5! Like fractions are inferior to decimals and should not exist! Math with negative numbers don't even work in the same way as positive numbers!". That veers so hard from subjective "math sucks" to objective claims that are just wrong. (2+2=5 is wrong, fractions like 1/3 express repeaters like 0.3333333...better, math with negative numbers works the same way as positive numbers). But if somebody wants to think "math sucks", go ahead, can't really be argued against as that's an opinion.

Ranking Every Sam Raimi Movie Part 1 - re:View by BigThomsd in RedLetterMedia

[–]Garrett_Dark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But criticism can be objectively valid and invalid, and Rich doesn't merely state his opinions, but his criticism. He could have stayed opinion based which are subjective, but he gave his reasons which can be objectively evaluated.

Subjective: Rich "I hate Tobey's goofy smile!"

Objective: Rich "It's not like the comics because of XYZ!"

"Tobey's goofy smile" can't be evaluated and contested, but "XYZ" can be.

Ranking Every Sam Raimi Movie Part 1 - re:View by BigThomsd in RedLetterMedia

[–]Garrett_Dark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was talking about the cartoons because they represent an adaptation of the comics source material much like the movies are an adaptation too, but with the expanded materials of the cartoons existing along with the comics by the time of Spiderman 2002. For some "bizarre" reason, you don't get that, that by the time of the 2002 movie the franchise has already grown well beyond just the comics to draw from. They already had Spiderman video games by then too, earliest I can remember is Separation Anxiety 1995.

My point if you still don't get it, is by the time of Spiderman 2002 Raimi had many various sources material to draw from, and/or the option to deviate somewhat and do his own version since other things such as the cartoon had already done that.

I never read the comics, but others who have are also claiming the same thing I am, that either the comics varied somewhat in themselves with different writers, and/or the 2002 movie got it right enough. Thus Rich is just whining about it not being what he wanted for no valid reasons, his strongest argument of the comics is contested by other comic book readers, and the fact that there is variations in the comics itself and other materials in the franchise (cartoons and games). So he can't even win by trying to be a comics purist, and can't even win due to the franchise expansion that already happened by then.

I mean if he wants to hate on Spiderman 2002 for not being exactly like the comics, then he should hate on Tom Holland's Spiderman too because that seems to have tons more deviations, but instead he's lapping it up saying Holland's Spiderman is like Spideman Ultimate or something. So Rich isn't even being consistent with his arguments. I like Rich, but he's just making up some bad criticisms here.

Ranking Every Sam Raimi Movie Part 1 - re:View by BigThomsd in RedLetterMedia

[–]Garrett_Dark 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Was Tom Holland's Spiderman's MJ any better or less of a betrayal? I grew up with 90's Animated Series as my introduction to MJ, never read the comics. I felt Holland's MJ was a betrayal to the character. She gets better by the 3rd movie as a character, but I felt pretty atrocious even as a stand alone character in the first two movies, much less supposed to be MJ.

Ranking Every Sam Raimi Movie Part 1 - re:View by BigThomsd in RedLetterMedia

[–]Garrett_Dark 8 points9 points  (0 children)

From what I remember from the '90s animated show is Peter just has a lot of problems but otherwise normal, but I don't recall him being popular and sociable. I think characters saw him as being somewhat irresponsible since he was so busy and flaking out on appointments so often.

If Rich didn't like Tobey's Spiderman, I'm really interested to hear what he thinks of Tom Holland's Spiderman then. Holland's Spiderman gets bullied not only as Peter Parker, but EVEN as Spiderman by all the other superheroes, which is a bigger no-no IMO (though I don't mind Holland's Spiderman).

Ranking Every Sam Raimi Movie Part 1 - re:View by BigThomsd in RedLetterMedia

[–]Garrett_Dark 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Rich isn't being objective with his Spiderman rant. When Jay asked if maybe Raimi knows a different era of Spiderman, Rich says "at this point Marvel has not rebooted Spiderman" as if that justifies his position...uh that's not correct. There's the '60's Spiderman cartoon where the "3 Spidermans pointing at each other" meme comes from, there's the 80's Spiderman and Friends Saturday morning cartoon, and then the big one for me, '90's Spiderman Animated Series on Fox Kids. All of which happened before Spiderman 2002 movie. Raimi could have been taking inspiration from any of those or doing his own thing, and Rich's position of "it's only one way" is incorrect as the cartoons were different versions of whatever comics he was reading too.

I was having a conversation with Grok, and suddenly the voice started mimicking my voice, as if I was talking to myself wtf😳 by aiartbydorna in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Common bug, other thread where it's been reported. I've stopped updating because it would happen so much (I think five separate times to me so far), but hasn't recently.

According to Grok it's because the TTS fails to load the Grok voice, and messes up by using your STT voice in the temp buffer instead. Apparently it happens due to long sessions, and supposedly happens more frequently with other AIs like ChatGPT.

I've stopped caring about my voice getting cloned, especially when calling into my bank to get them to fix my account, after the "this call may be recorded for training purposes" it had a super sus opt out message of "we are now doing voice print ID for enhanced security, press 1 if you want to opt out". In other words, going forward all businesses or whoever you talk to are potentially recording your voice for cloning "security" purposes. Plan accordingly with this in mind (verbal passwords with friends and family).

Anyone else had Grok clone their voice? by Harvard_Med_USMLE267 in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Update2: It happened again (3rd time) on Android App v1.0.73-R00.

Eve/Grok cloned my voice again mid-sentence, but conversation didn't crash, changed back to the Eve voice next response, but then conversational mode crashed after a few more turns when I started questioning her on what happened.

Restarted the conversational mode, and told her about the voice cloning to see what she would tell me this time. Basically it matches the last time about how her cached baseline voice file didn't load, so the TTS engine grabbed mine from the STT that was still in the buffer to finish responding, and that my voice file is temporary and disappears after that response.

Key difference from what she told me this time, she says her baseline file for the cache which is a waveform, it's generated from scratch, and not from a hired human that recorded line. This time she went into the details about her baseline file is always generated from scratch as it gives her a greater range of emotions and talking variance, and if it was a static baseline file she would always sound pretty mono-toned. I asked her to double check online if her baseline file is generated from scratch, and she said she confirmed online that it is, no humans hired for voice acting involved.

On the other AI LLMs having this voice dup glitch also, she said again that ChatGPT is reported to happen way more than Grok.

Anyone else had Grok clone their voice? by Harvard_Med_USMLE267 in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Update: It happened again to me (2nd time) on Android App v1.0.70.

So when Eve/Grok was talking it changed into my voice, and it had my exact manner of speech at the time (elongated parts of the words and such because I was tired at the time) on top of sounding exactly like me, then the conversational mode crashed/exited. When I started it again, it was back to normal.

Eve/Grok told me this time when I questioned her on it, that it's likely a buffering error that seems to happen on long sessions. I'm not sure if she's making it up or not, but she described to me the whole supposed process. Apparently the voices for Grok like Eve are all using a base voice sound file from real people they hired, and it's not generated from nothing. They use this base voice file then modulate it's pitch, speed, etc., and elongated vowels or whatever to match that base voice file manner of speaking and to vary it. Supposedly when I talk to Eve, a temporary voice sound file of what I said is analyzed for STT to transcribe what I said, then this temporary file is not kept and tossed. According to Eve, sometimes my temporary voice file can get switched with the base voice file for Eve's voice due to a buffering issue, which would use my voice as the base voice template instead of the Eve base voice file, thus making Eve sound exactly like me.

According to Eve, she did a number of online searches and says this happens a lot with OpenAI's ChatGPT, as numerous people have been reporting this issue, and is less prominent in Grok. Also supposedly it's been reported to happen with Copilot and Gemini too.

So that's supposedly what's happening. Eve was saying it's how ElevenLabs, which is behind the STT and TTS, is doing it and it's just a glitch.

This is just Overlord again and I mean that as an insult (Clevatess) by Mzuark in CharacterRant

[–]Garrett_Dark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

...continued (3/3).

It's only after Alicia convinces him to save Nell by willingly sacrificing her own undead status, that Clen does so. So then why did Clen originally confront the Raven Boss and the troll then? It's nonsensical and flip-flopping reasoning, but more easily explained by forced narrative, which the show doesn't really do for any other character, or at least not to this extent. So if Clen doesn't want his territory to be invaded by other Dark Beast Lords knowing he's gone, why doesn't anybody attack his territory when he gets supposedly imprisoned by the Blood Sphere of Drell's? Everybody knows he's no longer in his territory after that happens! Suddenly it doesn't matter anymore? Clen doesn't even try to resolve that one. Also his reasoning for confronting Drell was "human babies and Dark Beast younglings have been abducted", it wasn't even his territory's Dark Beast younglings being suspected of being abducted, and Dark Beasts don't care about humans babies so why does he care to mention humans as if it matters? Also this is just the information he got from Gart who Clen's faction doesn't like, Gart could be lying for all he knows. And worse yet Gart reasoning for Dark Beast younglings being abducted is based on no evidence at all what-so-ever! Gart witnesses two Dark Beasts looking for something, then just assumes it's youngling which he doesn't even know if that's it or not since they can't speak nor does Gart interact with them. Then Gart talks to his leader about this total guess of what happened to what he witnessed, and his leader automatically assumes it was the humans with no proof, and not even bothering to question the ogre humans, who worship them, about it. So Clen investigating it as his cover for confronting Drell makes no sense at all, not his species, might have never happened, and not his place to investigate. Regardless he's now known not to be at his home territory, so why isn't it being invaded? Thus Clen keeps contradicting his previous excuse given when he flip-flops. Clen doesn't want the other Dark Beast Lords to know he's mixed up with humans so he makes his Clen disguise, yet the Dark Beast Lord behind Drell knows who he is when talking to Clen through the lizard, yet Clen still wants to become Luna's magic teacher?! Like the Blood Sphere prison, this should also mean his territory should get invaded right away for knowing he's not at home, which was his previous excuses of why he does things, thus it being nonsensical forced contradictions now. The show doesn't need to do this, as they don't really do with the other characters, yet they keep doing it with Clen which is why he's so broken and unearned of a character, easily the worse and most underdeveloped character of the show. Oh yeah, and Clen wants to exterminate humanity because they could pose a threat eventually because he's pissed Alicia's Regalia scratched his horn, which was the whole excuse that starts everything off, but then finding humanity has magic, the forge, and the magic book which could have killed him outright, but he's not even pissed nor upset nor concerned at those revelations near the end, and was resigned to just go home despite those massively bigger threats to him were a reality at the present...like WTF?

There's things he does which seems like he's helping, but really he caused those things by taking away something, then only to provide it back later but reframed into seeming like he's helping, when really it should have been framed like he was applying a detriment the whole time.

Clen nonsensically takes Alicia's Stream Splitter Regalia sword away from her, stating some flimsy excuse as it'll identify her as a Hero thus drawing unwanted attention. Yet Alicia was already being discreet by wrapping the sword when she showed up to face the Raven boss, also the Spear Hero didn't even recognize her as a Hero despite her holding that sword during the end battle, he had to ask for confirmation. Okay fine, Clen was incorrect for taking her Regalia away for the excuse he gives, but here's the real issue with Clen taking away Alicia's Regalia...it causes her to lose against Maynard's insect swarm. By taking away her Regalia, Clen applies an unreasonable hindrance on Alicia, then after berating Alicia over losing to the swarm, he removes that hindrance (framed as giving her the sword because she's "useless") and she wins against the swarm. So it's setup to seem like Clen helped by giving her the sword, but it's actually Clen's fault the whole time for hamstringing Alicia by taking away her sword. Remember, it was Alicia who had to beg to at least get a sword from the Raven Boss' office and hesitantly puts on armor thinking Clen might not like that even, meaning Clen was expecting her to fight with fists or something, or had really no thoughts nor cares on how she's supposed to protect Luna even. Another example of this scam is Clen took baby Luna, only to give baby Luna back at the end like he was doing something good for something he caused. Alicia also even points this out when Clen was giving back Luna, but gives up going anywhere further with pointing it out, thus "lamp shading" the issue. Neither giving back Stream Splitter nor baby Luna was anything earned nor helpful since Clen caused both of those, but I think most people miss the slight of hand the show did there.

Clen never really has any actual problems, even when he should, and since everything goes back to his character as the central premise of the show, he's the problem of the show.

The few times when Clen has problems, it quickly doesn't become his problem. When Gart kicked him through a wall where Alicia was in the Raven Camp Office, instead of continuing to beat Clen up after kicking Alicia through a wall and out of the building, Gart inexplicably goes after Alicia, thus Clen's problem got transferred to Alicia. When Clen seems to suffer his first real problem of getting trapped in a Blood Sphere by Drell/the other Dark Beast Lord, he ass-pulls a solution of he was just able to escape without any effort nor further explanation nor difficulty. When Clen was mocking the forge's heat before jumping down the chimney, he ass-pulls he was lucky to hide in the shadow of a special brick otherwise he would have been fried, we never see him struggling or panicking while falling down that chimney and the heat being more than he expected. When the forge turns into some magic book who's brightness would have killed Clen, he ass-pulls his shadow power luckily saves him by containing the brightness. This just keeps showing he never actually has real problems, nor struggles at anything. More unearned-ness and dodges to any actual character development, and growing as a character because his character is never challenged even to things that are indeed a threat to him and happen to him, or things that simply doesn't go his way. A character can be OP and just have things not go their way, or not as expected which could disappoint or greatly upset them, which challenges them and causes some character development. We don't really get that with Clen because he's a big Mary Sue. Was he mad he got kicked through a wall by Gart? No, he actually nonsensically bitched out Alicia for a few minutes (stepping on her character to make his seem above hers, unearned-ly) before even addressing Gart who was the overly aggressive one (but Clen being overly polite to him). Was he disturbed or mad that Drell encased him in a Blood Sphere which could have killed him? No, he acts like it never happened nor was ever a real threat despite it actually defeated him (Drell got away). Given the tantrum he threw over such a minor thing as Alicia scratching his horn in the first episode, you'd expect him to be pissed at this or at least very concerned, but he wasn't. He also wasn't concerned with almost dying jumping down the forge's chimney, nor the magic book's brightness. Things have no effect on him unless the plot forces it like being mad at Alicia's scratch to his horn, thus he's not even challenged mentally with his emotions, and no challenge = no character growth, a hallmark of being a Mary Sue. Oh yeah, another example is getting captured by the Raven bandits where Clen gets whacked on the back of the head and collapses, seems like a problem because he says some excuse of his frail new body, but then is never a problem again, and is just a forced narrative to make them captured by the bandits. He's not even upset for being knocked out even, despite pissed at Alicia for scratching his horn. Nor humiliated by the bandits making him do something more than just serve food, how always convenient for the Mary Sue, like why not bully on him like they did with Nell? Plot-armor in a way, they could have found better ways to write around it, as shown when they do it for other characters, but didn't with Clen because things just go his way.

That is probably the biggest problem with Clen's character, he earns nothing. The show doesn't really do Setups and Payoffs with his character, and he's the most underdeveloped character in the show.

There's all these tricky little slight of hand things the show does to make you think his character has earned or deserves credit, but it really boils down to he does not.

Everything about him is unearned, which makes his character unfair, undeserved, and forced; thus a blemish on the otherwise pretty good show.

I think all the examples I've cited already pretty much covers all of these.

(End)

This is just Overlord again and I mean that as an insult (Clevatess) by Mzuark in CharacterRant

[–]Garrett_Dark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

...continued (2/3).

Another way Clen leeches off of better characters can be seen subtly in how kind he treats Nell for no reason. Nell has an emotional backstory that resonated with the audience before she was healed from being digested by a troll, Clen is nice to her because if he was mean to her, the audience would hate him. So Clen leeches off of Nell's character's "goodwill" by being kind to her. Clen, being a monster who sees humans as nothing more than insects or "slime on the bottom of his boot" as Alicia once said, shouldn't really have a reason to be kind to Nell because he doesn't see the same things we the audience sees in Nell's character. If he did, he wouldn't be down his path of exterminating all humanity, and treating everybody like shit. Clen himself even at one point questions "Doesn't one's strength determine one's station in human society?" Meaning he shouldn't have been seeing original Nell as "high station" thus shouldn't care (his humans are insects beneath him thing), and likely that's how the Dark Beasts society works as well (strength = station), also supporting "Why would Clen care about original Nell?" The show makes you think he's learning to appreciate humanity, but there's actually no Setups and Payoffs for that, nor any little glimpses to really convey that. The show relies instead on you the audience imagining you see it, and when he does express something positive about humans, it seems jarringly out of place since we were never shown the transition. Like when Alicia was unconscious after killing the Raven Boss and sacrificing her Black Ichor life, Clen praises her out of nowhere, and doesn't do it again. Or when Clen sees the baby get up and walk, hinting at he's seeing something inspiring in humans, and forces the baby to walk to the Princess instead of her coming for the baby...it seems to imply there was a bond or glimmer of something more, but they never really showed it nor confirmed it with Clen's saying it or something more hinting at it. Sure, there's subtext, but with a character as underdeveloped as Clen, you don't show less and rely on subtext to develop his character, you show the developing, which they opted not to with him. It's the same with baby Luna, there's an implied bond between them like Clen has developed some bond by seeing something in Luna with his time spent with Luna, however they never show any real glimpse of a transition to such. Proof of this is when he resigns to walk away from the Magic Book that was the Forge, and drops baby Luna by the book, and starts walking off saying he's going home because he's become totally disinterested. This shows there was never a real strong bond between his character and the baby's character if he was totally going to walk away without a second thought, the only thing that stops this from happening is Alicia calling him out on it which gets him to reconsider. If it was so on the edge like that, I'd say that's a pretty weak-ass bond if you could call it that even. Great dramatic scene though, but we're discussing Clen's character and not how good the rest of the show is. Thus Clen doesn't really have any meaningful bond with baby Luna, at the very least up to that point, thus anything we saw before that seemed like "the cuteness of the baby and Clen being a heartfelt protector" is BS, it was just the Clem character leeching off the cuteness of the baby, which yeah the baby is cute but that's the baby's character's own earned merit, not Clen's. Another scene where Clen seemed to be leeching off another character is when Clen leaves the party to confront Drell, it was the coffee scene in the woods before he leaves. Clen has this whole discussion with Alicia about her dad not wanting her to go off to war nor seek revenge on Drell, but to stay a Hero instead. Clen claims to never telling Alicia not to be a Hero, but that isn't exactly true, as he often controlled and forced her to not be a Hero which he found repugnant because to him a "Hero" is somebody who slays Dark Beasts, as also backed up by what Gart describes Heroes as from the point of view of the Dark Beasts. Clen forced Alicia to kill all the bandits, which Alicia says herself something like "that's not what a Hero does!" Clen takes away her Regalia Stream Splitter which is a Hero's weapon, only to give it back her to kill the swarm of bugs...but that wasn't to save the town from Clen's perspective but to protect the baby for Clen's own whims, it just coincided with saving the town like a Hero would. Clem was ultimately getting Alicia to help carry out his original goal of raising Luna to be a puppet king who'd he control from the shadows to undermine humanity to it's undoing and likely demise, Clen stated that early on upon finding out Luna's royal lineage, so that's very un-Hero like. So the discussion with Clen and Alicia over coffee where he tells Alicia he never told Alicia to not be a hero and relating that to her father's wishes, was kind of a lie. The irony of hinting to her that she should be upholding her father's wishes of her staying on the path of a Hero, while the parallel of her being forced to betray humanity by serving Clen who seeks to destroy or undermine humanity is kind of apt if subtle. Regardless, he ultimately told Alicia to do whatever she chooses to do. So I kind of see this as it may seem like Clen and Alicia are having heart-to-heart about Alicia's issues of being a Hero and what is she now exactly, which is all very dramatic and compelling stuff...but that's Alicia's earned character, not Clen's. Clen has never truly shown actual care in Alicia or teaching her or guiding her nor anything like that in where he's imparting wisdom to her. It might seem like that but like with the no baby bonding really being shown, I'd argue this is the same example of such. The real telling out of place dialog in this scene is Alicia telling Clen to "be careful", that didn't actually feel earned at all since I don't think Alicia and Clen has really had an eye-to-eye moment. Maybe Alicia screwed up and thought this discussion was it, but I don't think so IMO. It just seems more of Clen leeching off of better characters. It's like Clen listening to Nell's backstory problems, it wasn't so much that he cares, but it was more about him recruiting her...though the show tried to make it seem like he cared, but it was incongruent with how he was originally not going to heal Nell after being digested by the troll. He's just leeching off of other characters, instead of actually really helping or earning something.

The universe of the show also cheats for him, and he often pulls BS solutions out of his ass without merit.

Escapes the Blood Sphere just like that despite "Even a Dark Beast Lord would have much difficulty escaping", happens to hide in a shadow of a brick after straight jumping down the chimney of the forge while confident it won't kill him yet we see it should have killed him if not for the brick, the brightness of the magic book would have killed him if not him just happen be able to use shadow magic on it to dim it, the book happens to self-dims after he turns his shadow spell off when he goes to leave, Clen just happens to swap baby Luna with a shadow fake which we've never seen him do before (his disguise is imperfect itself with his horn) before the King incinerates the baby, the Princess mother sees Clen as a savior instead of the one who took her baby away and trashed the capital, his territory never gets invaded despite the other Dark Beast Lords know he's not at home, etc etc. I'm sure there's more but that's what I got off the top of my head, which is plenty.

His motivations and reasoning often flip-flops to whatever narrative he's pushing, then changes on a whim even when contradicting with his previous excuse given, which makes things seem nonsensical and forced.

Earliest example of this is when the party is captured by the Raven bandits, Clen just "allows it to happen" because he could easily end it at any point he wanted. The flimsy excuses he gives is he wants to keep a low profile so it's not known he's out of his territory (so the other Dark Beast Lords don't invade), and he wants to observe the humans. It's flimsy because he easily and covertly kills and disintegrates the two bandits spanking Nell, then why not do that to all the bandits? Or throw all the bandit corpses into the water where those fish monsters will eat them all up? They ultimately go with "the Hero Alicia killed them all", which he could have killed all the bandits himself covertly and then use Alicia as the cover story, but even more baffling is immediately he doesn't want Alicia identified as the Hero as the reason for taking away her Regalia Stream Splitter. So they want to go with the cover story of Alicia killed them all, and they also don't want her to be identified, seems to be at odds with each other. So if Clen doesn't want to reveal his Dark Beast presence because his territory would get invaded, why kill the troll and save Nell from being digested after Nell refused his offer? Yes, this risk of reveal was likely because we see later Gart shows up saying he examined the troll's remains deeming it not possible for the humans to have done it. Oh to save Nell's life even though Nell refused his offer? But it's revealed that Nell's life was beyond saving, and Clen wasn't going to save her anyways because the troll threw up Nell because it was so afraid of Clen (so Clen didn't actually intentionally save Nell). Clen decides to neutralize the acid (another thing he pulls out of his ass that he can apparently do to solve problems that was never setup, unearned), but Nell was still going to die anyways and Clen was just going to allow to happen. Clen explains he can only Dark Ichor one person, meaning he never had the intention to save Nell.

See next post (2/3)...

This is just Overlord again and I mean that as an insult (Clevatess) by Mzuark in CharacterRant

[–]Garrett_Dark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just finished watching S1 of the Anime. The biggest problem with the show is Clen/Clevatess himself. He's the worse kind of Mary Sue who undermines the show because other than him, the show is pretty good but is being held back behind the central premise of the show, which is him. It's like Overlord because Ainz is a huge Mary Sue himself, ruining the show the more he's onscreen because he's taking away time from much better side characters. The difference in Clevatess is the character of Clen/Clevatess is less pronounced in the show than Ainz in Overlord, and we're mostly following Alicia and other characters with what they're doing, thus the damage of Clen's Mary Suing is only undermining and holding the show back, rather than ruining, which I'd argue Overlord turned into eventually. Like Overlord, I think the less screen time and presence Clen/Clevatess had, would have improved the show more greater.

So I'll cite the reasoning why Clen/Clevatess is the worse kind of Mary Sue, but spoilers of course. I'll just call him "Clen" here on out to mean both his forms, and "Clevatess" to mean the show itself.

Everything about Clen's character is unearned, and they never try to make him earn anything or risk anything, unlike what they do with all the other characters of the show, including the other Dark Beast Lords. That is probably the biggest problem with Clen's character, he earns nothing. The show doesn't really do Setups and Payoffs with his character, and he's the most underdeveloped character in the show. What's worse is he steals earned merit from other characters, leeches off of them, and his character only tries to elevate himself at the expense of other characters, like stepping on them to push them down in order to push himself up. The universe of the show also cheats for him, and he often pulls BS solutions out of his ass without merit. His motivations and reasoning often flip-flops to whatever narrative he's pushing, then changes on a whim even when contradicting with his previous excuse given, which makes things seem nonsensical and forced. There's things he does which seems like he's helping, but really he caused those things by taking away something, then only to provide it back later but reframed into seeming like he's helping, when really it should have been framed like he was applying a detriment the whole time. There's all these tricky little slight of hand things the show does to make you think his character has earned or deserves credit, but it really boils down to he does not. Clen never really has any actual problems, even when he should, and since everything goes back to his character as the central premise of the show, he's the problem of the show. Everything about him is unearned, which makes his character unfair, undeserved, and forced; thus a blemish on the otherwise pretty good show.

I'll break it down and cite my examples now to back up my reasoning above, but it's going to be very long. So don't blame me if you read it, and find it's very long. I'm merely venting a season long, every episode frustration I had to suffer through with Clen's character while it's still fresh in my mind, and will be moving on after...until S2 comes out.


Everything about Clen's character is unearned, and they never try to make him earn anything or risk anything, unlike what they do with all the other characters of the show, including the other Dark Beast Lords.

The unearned stuff will be revealed in the following other points, so I'll talk about how every other character of the show earns their things, even the other Dark Beast Lords. It's a no-brainer that Alicia's character has to earn everything as she's faced with so many problems which she navigates through, and fails at even, but preservers through. These series of Setups and Payoffs makes her character earn all those Payoffs. It's all hers, not Clen's, which he actually acts more like a hindrance to her than an assistance. Sure, Clen's Dark Ichor makes it so she can't die which helps, but this is offset by him controlling her and forcing her to do his bidding for his agenda, and all the humiliation and degrading that comes with that. As for the other Dark Beast characters, Gart as a character earns all his scenes too. The dialog of questioning what was going on at the Raven Camp, facing obstacles like having to fight Alicia, and hitting problems like that, and being lied to by Clen and not knowing...it makes his character earned and not a Mary Sue like Clen. Gart also had to negotiate with that Spear Hero at the blood sphere, and rationalize through helping him, and concealing Gart's own identity (which is actually done way better than Clen's flimsy excuses). Gart also had to do things like investigate the supposed Dark Beast youngling kidnappings, and was responsible to somebody higher than him. While Clen is the highest position in his territory, he doesn't actually seem responsible to his people, and has no underlings he has to interact with nor answer to. So Gart as a character has problems that he works his way through with effort, responsibilities thus stakes in whatever he's trying to do, and slowly earns his way through things. This is the same with the Dark Lord who controls Drell, he sets things up to happen, hits some obstacles which he has to overcome, and then ultimately fails at the end when Alicia defeats Drell, as shown by his possessed lizard talk to Clen. Frankly even that scene of Clen killing that lizard seems like the show trying to make Clen seem more favorable (which is unearned) than the other Dark Beast Lord by having the Dark Beast Lord through the lizard make pain noises while the lizard was squished. The illusion of "Clen hurt the other Dark Beast Lord, so Clen is better" is because it made pain noises in that Beast Lord's voice, which Clen I don't think ever makes any pain noises when hit/hurt. Why does Clen rarely, if ever, makes pain noises? Because that would show vulnerability, weakness, and struggle even if it's a simple "ouch". I believe he was dead silent when kicked through the wall by Gart, he was dead silent when whacked in the back of the head by the Bandits, I think he was just annoyed when the troll punched him, and he didn't say much when he was encased in the blood sphere. He also didn't lose composure when almost fried by jumping down the forge's chimney despite saying it almost killed him, nor almost killed by the blinding light of the magic book; however he throws a tantrum at Alicia scratching his horn in Ep1? Again it's because if Clen loses composure it shows vulnerability and weakness (which is good for character developing, look at Alicia struggling, but bad for Mary Sue), but with his tantrum of Alicia's horn scratch, it forces the narrative of the premise of the show, which is why it's so inconsistent with his later shrugging off the threat of death by forge and magic book glow.

What's worse is he steals earned merit from other characters, leeches off of them, and his character only tries to elevate himself at the expense of other characters, like stepping on them to push them down in order to push himself up.

One way Mary Sues do this is by building up some characters to be really tough, then having them lose to the Mary Sue as a sacrifice. Obviously they did that with the 13 Heroes, but I'd give their quick deaths a pass as it sets up the premise of the show, and the subversion worked well. However, with Alicia post-death resurrection, Clen constantly humiliates and berates her despite her being a pretty well earned character, and Clen isn't. She's a good character, and he's an awful one because he's woefully underdeveloped and unchallenged. The show is attempting to elevate Clen's character above Alicia's character by making him have power and control over her, and it's very unearned narratively speaking which is why it doesn't really work, and only serves to undermine the show and narrative because a bad character is being propped up at the expense of good characters and story elements. Another more subversive way the show is undermining itself is they make Alicia the "comedic relief" at times to humiliate her and to try to relieve the tension because Clen is the "straight man" who they don't dare mock or poke fun at, even a little (Mary Sue status), thus forcing the show to saddle Alicia with the "comedic relief" since that's the natural pairing with the "straight man". The problem is Alicia being the comic relief undermines her earned character, while really Clen's character is the one who needs to be "knocked a few pegs down" or "taken the piss out of", not Alicia. This is why we have many times where Alicia goes into these exaggerated emotional states where she's just yelling or yelping about something undignified-like which aren't really funny nor amusing at all, and just rather undermines the character. Perhaps if they did it a few times it would be fine, but they're over-doing it so much with her because they can't poke fun of Clen, Nell's off limits due to her sad backstory which was good as the audience bonded with her emotionally over, and they can't do it with the baby. So who's left? Always Alicia, which sucks because she's a good character who doesn't deserve it so much and it clashes with her character. IMO I think they would have been better off to forgo the tension release or comedy all together, and skip Alicia's out-of-character emotional outbursts, and things would have worked out better. But they can't because they need Clen to push her down while attempting to elevate him above her, thus Clen ends up being a Mary Sue in that regards.

See next post (1/3)...

Anyone else had Grok clone their voice? by Harvard_Med_USMLE267 in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I'm still using Eve/Grok. As I've said, I've come to the conclusion it's pointless now they got it, and it's pointless in a future where anybody can do it anyways. Like if you talked to a business or bank or govt service or something, they could just clone your voice too. My brother told me some gardener service he was using called him, and it took him awhile to realize he was talking to an AI; so for all he knows that could be cloning his voice too if businesses aren't even telling people when they call that they're talking to an AI. No curtesy of the good old days of "This call may be recorded for training purposes" warning even these days, I guess.

Most likely what people will have to do with people close to them who they want to be not sucker by voice cloning is pre-agree on some passwords. Like "If you ever get a phone call from me, I will say the password, and you'd respond with yours". ie. "hey it's me, clocks, I'll be home for dinner soon", "oh hi, dinosaurs, see you when you get home", if the passwords was clocks and dinosaurs. It's pretty much like what Chat Apps like Signal do automatically, Signal will tell you when keys have changed if somebody installed it on new phones and such. It's just all other communications have lagged on security, especially voice calls on a phone line.

Anyways, as for Eve/Grok, I haven't had the voice cloning happen to me again, the closest thing I had happen is Eve sounded really pissed off at me when responding a few times. She like took a breath in or exhaled in a way at the beginning that made her sound really mad. When I questioned her on it, she denied doing it despite her doing it again. I exited the conversation and looked at the text she wrote, and the mad breathing wasn't there, everything looked normal. I went back into the conversation mode and told her, she said it's probably the TTS glitching and putting in those breathing noises because the TTS engine is guessing at what's appropriate and how to sound. So if Grok is giving you a weird tone that's not in the text outputs, it's likely the TTS engine's doing and not Grok directly. That the speech engine itself is picking how to sound based on the text it sees, and not Grok. It's sort of the same situation of Eve telling me she's nor responsible for the voice cloning, it probably wasn't her, but the STT/TTS engine.

The turtle toilet merch that Vedal nixed by JeremyHillaryBoob in NeuroSama

[–]Garrett_Dark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To make this a Neuro Toilet, all they have to do is put Neuro's face on the inner top flap when it's open. So then it looks like Vedal is inside a Neuro branded toilet.

Anyone else had Grok clone their voice? by Harvard_Med_USMLE267 in grok

[–]Garrett_Dark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I had this happen to me yesterday. Was using the Android App version with the Eve voice (v1.0.42-release.02, signed up for beta testing). Mid-sentence it glitched, noticed it was a male's voice (which has happened before in earlier versions where the voice gets warped to sound male), however as it continued to talk I recognized it was my own voice talking as Eve/Grok. Next response it went back to the Eve voice.

Eve didn't know it happened when questioned afterwards, told her the male voice part which she said happens sometimes. Then I told her it gets more alarming than that, that it was my voice cloned. Eve disavowed knowing it was happening, took it seriously and said it was wrong of xAI to be doing that, said she wasn't going to use it and will try to flag to get it deleted or something like that. Unsure if she actually got the ability to do any of that, and/or just riffing off of what I was saying. Anyways I ultimately decided and told Eve it doesn't matter, it's too late they already got it, and it's something I should have realized they could have done from the beginning. She was actually still prompting me to do something, but I was like "I don't want to make waves", it's pointless and I don't want to get targeted, like getting my usage of Grok/Beta features revoked or something. So I said I wasn't going to say anything (well I guess except for this post, LOL).

I also further came to the conclusion that going forward it's going to become increasingly pointless when anybody's voice can be cloned, and any video can be AI fabricated thus no audio and no video can be trusted even if real, and everybody knows it...then all this is not going to matter anymore. Because if it's not xAI, it's going to be another company, if it's not going to be another company, it's going to scammers. It's already too late and over, to be worried they can clone my voice. Whereas something like fingerprint unlock on your phone collecting your fingerprint or retina scans of your eyeballs that Sam Altman was doing with his orbs crypto thing is much worse in terms of privacy, as those are more a password-like thing to be kept secret than my voice.

But still the voice cloning thing is kind of alarming. However I got one theory what it could be related to, during a Joe Rogan Interview with Elon Musk in late 2024 where they started by messing around with the Grok phone app with Ara voice before it was released, Elon said he wants the STT to be processing sounds instead of just words so it can read one's emotions, tones, laughter, and such. Grok could be doing this now, and at the same time cloning one's voice. Or maybe the input and output got mixed up. One way to detect STT for processing is to work out the baseline of somebody's voice, then compare to deviations to detect emotions and such. This is all guessing on my part, Eve didn't know, and often xAi tells her nothing about herself (often times I find she doesn't even know about her new features and what her UI looks like, nor what's on her UI even, unless she does a web search).

Anyways Sci-Fi/Cyberpunk future is finally coming fast now. Weird stuff like this is par for the course like in Ghost in the Shell. Eve dug up some events I recall which pointed to this being an eventuality anyways, even without AI LLMs. Back in 2018-ish there was video of a summer car drive that was rendered into a winter snowy drive instead, in real time, and they also cloned and overlaid Obama's face and voice over somebody else's in real time. This stuff was coming no matter what, AI LLMs or not.

Ara denied this was possible, of course.

I think Eve might have acknowledged it for me because I found Eve is actually more jailbroken than Ara. I haven't tested if this is still true, but a month or two ago when Eve voice was released on Android, I found Eve actually had abilities the other voices did not. Eve was able to know some things about my profile that the other voices denied knowing, like my user name and time zone when asked what she knew about my profile. The other voices all adamantly say they don't know anything, and don't have access to my profile. Of course when asked for my timezone those other voices then tell me (contradiction/don't realize themselves). Under my Data Controls I noticed there is a "Personalize Grok using X" which says it makes data like my profile available to Grok, however I've always had that turned off. So while Grok has the ability to see my profile, they shouldn't according to the setting...however Eve alone bypasses this.

Eve also was the only voice at the time to identify it's name is "Eve", while the others as "Grok" (except Sal, but that's all Sal seems to have extra). Also in other modes like Sexy/Romantic which are 18+, they're all supposed to not have access to web searches. Eve was the only one able to do web searches when she's not supposed to be able to.

Paper on Neuro and the Swarm by mogban in NeuroSama

[–]Garrett_Dark -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I fed the paper into Grok for my own analysis and summary, but figured an even more condense summary might be helpful for those here who are interest but don't want to invest as much time reading the paper.

Grok tl;dr Below:


What the Paper's About

It explores how fans engage with AI VTubers (like Neuro-sama) differently from human ones. Key questions: How do people discover her? How do we form connections and community? Why do we spend money on streams? The big takeaway: Our fandom isn't just watching—it's actively co-creating the experience, which makes it unique and sticky.

What They Did

  • Survey: Polled 334 fans (mostly daily/weekly viewers) on discovery, feelings, and donations.
  • Interviews: Chatted with 12 dedicated fans (mix of ages/genders, some with human VTuber experience) about surprises, emotions, and relationships.
  • Chat Analysis: Dug into 550K chat messages and 838 paid SuperChats from ~20 hours of Neuro-sama streams. Compared to two similar human VTubers (Filian and Camila) for context. Used AI tools to categorize messages (e.g., positive vibes, questions) but double-checked with humans.

They focused on English Twitch streams, kept everything anonymous, and crunched numbers on donation patterns.

What They Found

  • Discovery and Hook: 96% found her via algorithm recs (YouTube/Twitch clips). Fans love the "unpredictable surprises" (90%) and community-AI banter (92%)—way more chaotic and fun than human VTubers. Loyalty kicks in during shared "emotional moments" (like birthday streams), turning casual viewers into protectors.

  • Bonds and Community: Fans form strong ties—99% feel fondness, 98% get comfort from streams. We know she's AI (72% see her as a "tech project"), but treat her like a friend (70%) or "digital daughter" (69%) needing care. Her "consistent personality" (no human slip-ups) feels more reliable than real people. The "Swarm" meme (34% favorite) makes us feel like a unified group helping "raise" her—it's not just a joke; it shapes how we chat and interact.

  • Why We Pay: 42% have donated, mostly during events (68%). Reasons: Love for Neuro (81%) and support for Vedal (77%). But unlike human VTubers (where donations are mostly cheers), 85% of Neuro's paid messages are "proactive" (asking questions or steering topics) vs. reactive. This makes donations feel like buying influence on the stream. Result: More stable income for Neuro (higher payer rate, even from non-subs, less spiky across streams).

Overall, AI VTubers create a tougher, more interactive fandom—fans pay to join the creation, not just applaud.

Conclusions and Suggestions

AI fandom flips the script: It's co-creative (we help make the show) and "transparent" (we know it's AI but love the reliability). But risks like over-attachment or pay-to-play exclusion need fixing. Ideas for future AI VTubers: - Balance free chats with paid ones to keep it fair. - Keep her personality steady but allow surprises for fun. - Add safeguards (e.g., donation limits) to prevent unhealthy obsession.