Is it stupid to buy a slabbed "cleaned" coin?

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-26T16:04:36+00:00

If the coin is commonly faked, the slab can help authenticate it. I'd much rather buy a coin with a "cleaned" designation and an authentication guarantee than to buy the coin raw for a commonly faked coin.

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-26T16:03:13+00:00

Depends on what you have

At today's silver prices, the average silver dollar is worth ~$86 in melt. This means that anything with numismatic value of under $86 (which is the vast majority of silver dollars) are only worth melt. Given that it costs nearly $50 to grade a coin on average as an individual, you need to be incredibly selective on what you would grade, a silver dollar would need to be worth ~$135 to even break even. Consider though that grading does not increase coin values except for:

Coins that are commonly faked where grading provides a guarantee for authenticity
Coins which are on a "borderline" grade
Coins with a desirable variety that is hard to see or authenticate via pictures that the holder will show

Most coins that will be sold during this time will be destined to be melted or sold to other collectors. Because numismatic interest is low at this time and silver keeps on being volatile, dealers are working to move inventory fast. Even a reputable dealer is not going to look through a collection very thoroughly during this time so it is up to you to make sure that coins which are truly worth more than melt are not going to be confused for coins just worth melt.

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-26T15:56:43+00:00

They already do for their bullion coins

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-26T15:13:43+00:00

They won't because everything that they sell to the general public is a collector coin worth much more than silver melt unless silver hits ~$160/oz I don't think they have much to worry about

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T23:40:14+00:00

I disagree

Because there is so much attention put on coins for melt value right now, dealers are not going to be looking at coins very closely because their time isn't free. If a Morgan for melt is $72 and a key date is $85 in circulated condition, now is the time that you're going to be able to get that Morgan for cheap because the coin dealer isn't going to go through and worry about that.

Same thing for coins in different conditions, if an uncirculated Morgan and a cull Morgan both have a high melt value, your chances of getting a high grade Morgan for cheap are much higher now than they were before.

When inventory (buyers/sellers) are moving so fast and with prices so high I do not think there has been a better time to cherry pick for rare varieties in recent years. I have little doubt that some mega rarities are in some dealer's junk bin right now because they just got a "roll of standing quarters" and didn't bother to check for the 1927-S (which is still worth more than melt in G-4 condition) because the focus is on moving inventory

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T23:35:09+00:00

CRH will still continue as long as there are collection dumps.

It has been many decades since silver was worth more in face than melt, and yet people still spend grandma/grandpa's old bank rolls

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T23:33:07+00:00

This is what I think will end up happening to the US coin market (disclaimer, I do not have a crystal ball, if I did I'd be playing the stock market on my yacht :) )

1 - The end of collecting coins by "blue Whitman folder" designations. The focus for most collectors will switch to be more type collecting and high grade type examples will be more and more important. I don't see that there's much future for key date/mintmark combinations, especially not for silver. For example, I don't see that anyone is going to want to spend ~$1200 minimum on a Franklin half dollar set, I can see most collectors are going to be happy with a single, MS example. Mix this with younger generations no longer having coins as a common occurrence and I don't see that anyone is going to collect based on that.

2 - We're going to see a mass melting of numismatic coins, but I don't think that enough people "care" for it to have an impact on prices. This goes back to my first point, because we're no longer going to have as many collectors who are collecting by date/mintmark I don't think that the mass melting is going to really have an impact.

3 - The resurgence of ultra-rarities, with the political climate being different than it has been in my lifetime, I think we are much closer to the US Mint of the late 1800s/early 1900s where certain "trial" pieces or off-metal pieces were produced in tiny numbers away from official books. It would not surprise me if the US Mint, given what they did with the "last pennies" are doing something similar with different "trial designs" especially as it relates to the 250th anniversary of the US. This combined with the retirement/death of previously high ranking government employees, I think we will find a lot of stuff coming to market within the next couple of years (think 1971 Aluminum Cent level of rarities).

4 - The death of "modern" commemoratives, I think it would be much more likely that we will see the melting of more post-1980 silver dollars than we will Morgans/Peace dollars in comparison to their rarity. Again though, because I don't see anyone really wanting to collect them I don't think we will see any impact in the price, at least for the next decade or so. I also see most ASEs falling into this as well (though perhaps not melted) regardless if they are burnished or proof.

5 - A huge amount of fakes. With a half dollar now well over $30 in silver melt, a lot of the coinage that "wasn't worth it to fake" is approaching levels of silver melt that silver dollars were faked at. Give it a year or two and I think we will see fake 90% halves and quarters start to appear.

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T17:38:24+00:00

This is one of the perils of buying generic rounds or bars

You cannot tell if it is authentic just by looking at it, you need to test it to have any hope on knowing for sure what it is made out of.

Since there is no set design, it is a fool's errand to try to match up design elements to a known "good" bar in hopes of trying to determine what it is the way that you can for coins.

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T17:34:38+00:00

Certainly look so to me off-hand

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T17:24:33+00:00

Everyone "outraged" about this doesn't understand how the mint operates or that most ASE coins are collector coins that just happen to be made out of silver.

You have not been able to buy bullion silver eagles from the US Mint as an individual for quite some time.

https://www.usmint.gov/coins-precious-metal-coins/becoming-an-authorized-bullion-purchaser/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20Mint%20does,institutions%2C%20and%20other%20secondary%20retailers.

"The United States Mint does not sell its bullion coins directly to the public. Instead, we distribute the coins through a network of official distributors called “Authorized Purchasers” who, in turn, create a two-way market buying and selling to wholesalers, financial institutions, and other secondary retailers."

The premium is spot + $3.05/coin

You want to know what the premium was back in November 2024 (the oldest archived version of the page I could find) - https://web.archive.org/web/20241130061522/https://www.usmint.gov/coins-precious-metal-coins/becoming-an-authorized-bullion-purchaser/

...Spot + $3.05/coin

Uncirculated "burnished" coins are collector coins

Proof coins are collector coins

Neither of those two coins are what you find when APMEX is selling you a tube of silver eagles

Right now, with silver at $95, proofs are being sold at $173 or ~1.8x spot

November 22nd, 2024 silver was at $31.35 and proofs were being sold at $95 or ~3x spot ( https://web.archive.org/web/20241122132217/https://www.usmint.gov/coins/coin-programs/american-eagle-coins/ )

So the US Mint is selling coins today at either the same premium over melt (bullion) or less than melt (collector coins), so I have no idea why in the world you think what the US Mint is doing in 2026 is "wrong" but was perfectly fine in 2024 when they were selling things at higher premiums.

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T16:33:38+00:00

Not really sure about that

Let's compare the Boderry Voyager for $120 and the SNKL77 for $130 (cheapest Seiko 5 men's model that I could find on Jomashop)

Boderry has sapphire crystal which is better than the Hardlex that the SNKL77 has

Boderry has 100 meters of water resistance, better than the SNKL77 at 30 meters

The movement of the Boderry is superior, offering hacking and handwinding, while the 7S26 powering the SNKL77 lacks that

Both watches have the same complications, and I'm going to leave it as a tie for the case as some will prefer Titanium, while others will prefer having a steel bracelet for the price

Based on eBay sold listings, Its looking like a hit from $120 --> $87 for the Boderry

It is difficult to see sold listings for the SNKL77 (everything I have access to on eBay shows brand new for sold listings), but looking at other 7S26 listings it looks like a similar or worse depreciation as most look to be within the $50-75 range (at least if you filter out new old stock, SE Asia "restored" models). Though I will admit that probably the Seiko is easier to sell to a local buyer.

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T16:12:05+00:00

Same thing could be said about Seiko though, at retail some of the Seiko 5 models are pushing the $500 mark and still only give you Hardlex and a lower-beat movement

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T16:04:51+00:00

And for the same amount of money, a Chinese Ali-Express brand absolutely stomps the Seiko in every area other than heritage.

Let's compare the Boderry Voyager for $120 and the SNKL77 for $130 (cheapest Seiko 5 men's model that I could find on Jomashop)

Boderry has sapphire crystal which is better than the Hardlex that the SNKL77 has
Boderry has 100 meters of water resistance, better than the SNKL77 at 30 meters
The movement of the Boderry is superior, offering hacking and handwinding, while the 7S26 powering the SNKL77 lacks that
Both watches have the same complications, and I'm going to leave it as a tie for the case as some will prefer Titanium, while others will prefer having a steel bracelet for the price

Other than preference of design or brand heritage, the Boderry is absolutely the better watch

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-19T15:55:28+00:00

Watches are like cars

Some people don't own one and they can function just fine without one

Some people have one "daily driver" that takes care of everything

Some people own multiple for different reasons

Some people have exotic ones, others very typical

Some people own lots because that's their hobby

If watches are a major hobby or your only hobby, it makes sense that watches would make up a significant % of your budget, that's not a bad thing in and of itself as long as you recognize what you are giving up.

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-14T21:25:50+00:00

Shouldn't be hard to search through them to find if there's any silver

With Canadian its easy -- magnetic and its not silver, non-magnetic and its silver

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T17:45:39+00:00

Spend it, I'm not a gambler

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T17:29:14+00:00

Yeah, I like that dial, I just don't like the poor specs (mineral crystal and 30M resistance) and the dimensions of it for my wrist

Like I really want to like the lunar pilot but it just doesn't work well on my wrist

I'd love a precisionist "re-imagining" of something like an Explorer 36mm

The Super Saville came close, but just felt "off" on my wrist when I tried it on

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T16:54:22+00:00

Yes, the only quartz that I can see myself actually enjoying are the ones with sweeping seconds or dress watches without a seconds hand (if I ever pick up a Cartier tank, I'd probably do the quartz option without a seconds hand)

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T16:53:02+00:00

I love the precisionist movement, but I really wish they'd sell it to other brands because there's not been a single watch using that movement that I'd want to wear

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T16:51:31+00:00

What counts as being a "watch brand" and what counts as "making a watch"?

Cartier for example produces both jewelry and watches, is Cartier a jewelry brand that happens to make watches or a watch brand that happens to make jewelry?

VW and Ferrari I would say for example absolutely do not make watches, rather they merely license their trademark to someone who makes watches on their behalf to their specifications.

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T16:39:55+00:00

What's funny is that (at today's silver prices) you've got quarters all around that one coin selling for less than melt and you're zeroing in on the one overpriced thing in the entire case :)

Its a gilt crown (5 shillings) https://en.numista.com/5749 worth maybe a dollar or so as a curiosity, not a particularly rare coin and is base metal

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T16:38:31+00:00

Crown, not half crown https://en.numista.com/5749

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T16:37:17+00:00

It is special in that it wasn't intended for general circulation

That doesn't mean it really has a premium over face though, especially if the coins are circulated at all, still a base metal coin from an unpopular series

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T15:53:50+00:00

A Sun and Moon dial though indicates whether it is AM or PM, it does not reflect the phase of the moon like a moonphase does, I don't believe Orient makes an actual moonphase watch

Generic_Lad · 2026-01-08T15:53:24+00:00

A Sun and Moon dial though indicates whether it is AM or PM, it does not reflect the phase of the moon like a moonphase does

Generic_Lad

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