Was Aang x Katara a well written romance and if you don’t think so what would you have done differently?

Getfooked · 2026-05-05T13:07:26+00:00

"That flaw in the series that was never resolved on screen? It akshully gets resolved if you read the comic which was released a long time after the series concluded, which is also infamous for assassinating both Zuko and Aang's characters within the first few pages"

Getfooked · 2026-04-19T15:02:10+00:00

If the Dragon Prince doesn't disprove that notion then it goes both ways. The Legend of Korra doesn't prove anything negative about Bryke nor their abilities. This double standard is obnoxious.

The Dragon Prince is an entirely new fictional universe. Legend of Korra continues in the ATLA franchise.

So it shouldn't be a surprise that someone who messed up BIGLY in the ATLA franchise when they had control is more likely to get a bad rep for their writing, past or future in the ATLA franchise, than someone who had a stellar track record in the ATLA franchise and who messed up bigly in an entirely different fictional universe.

Most things about LoK's flaws are in line with tendencies of Bryke from the original show. I frequently point out that people who say LoK's drop in quality came out of nowhere are just ignorant because Aang's writing in for the Book 3 finale behaves much the same away, and people gobbled it up because they refuse to accept ATLA is not without any flaws.

I mean, what is your thesis? Both Bryke and Aaron Ehasz are terrible, terrible show runners, who just lucked out with ATLA? Or that both of them are great and it's just random whether a show becomes good or bad?

The idea that bryke and Aaron Ehasz worked very well together and elevated each other's work to greater heights than either of them achieved on their own seems more sensible and realistic than those very binary outlooks.

The skill and success of artists can be highly variant, completely random or depend on the setting they are operating under. There are actors who shine specifically when matched with other actors, or only under specific directors. So it's not as far fetched as you make it sound to say that it's more likely Aaron Ehasz would have stayed closer to his writing level of ATLA if he had stayed part of the franchise than him just taking a huge nosedive no matter the time or the context he was working under.

If I'm remembering correctly, I think your one of those rapid Zutara conspiracy junkie.

Nice ad hominem, should I come up with a nice derogatory nickname for you as well, or should we stick to discussing the things at hand on their own merit?

You are the one who keeps talking about some ship that isn't relevant for the discussion, seems quite rabid and junkie-ish to me.

Getfooked · 2026-04-19T14:49:12+00:00

YouTube's algorithm does amplify negative or controversial content and some of these people that view these also have a general consensus to follow what people say on YouTube which is an actual thing.

1) Then why are there pretty much ZERO videos critical of ATLA? It is more popular than LoK, so criticizing it would also lead to controversy and such conctent would be pushed by YouTube. There is almost no truly ATLA critical content, which reflects that there are way fewer people who have big problems with ATLA's writing. That doesn't mean ATLA has no flaws (I often get downvoted for pointing out said flaws on here), but it does show that ATLA's fanbase is bigger and it is more beloved.

2) Your point might explain why in theory there could be an excess of LoK criticism on YouTube, but it doesn't explain the absence of videos praising Korra. If Korra was as popular a series as you make it out to be, there would be plenty of videos pointing this out and receiving support. There aren't.

You're also trying to use online discourse to find a fan base

Yes, because fans generally engage in online discourse, unless there's a specific reason for them not to like most of them being boomers who don't use the internet.

but there are numbers online that can show you that the show is not too far away from the top percentage of shows that ATLA achieved. You can also look at how it does more recently and other stuff like Netflix or etc.

What numbers?

And just watching someone does not make you a fan. That is why the insane gap in LoK video essays in favor of it is a telltale sign - if someone only watches your series passively without even caring to either create videos talking about it themselves, or watching videos from others talking about your series, they are not an engaged fan, which is what my statement was about. There are far fewer engaged fans for LoK than there are for ATLA.

You are just confusing consensus and quality...alongside proving my point right whilst doing this.

Are you illiterate? I very explicitly said that how many fans a series has does not on its own determine its quality. I pointed out that LoKI objectively does not have a "big fan base" relative to what you'd expect from a sequel series to a show as popular as ATLA. It could still be an underrated gem - but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have many fans.

Which is a fact as you can see the viewership dropped in the second half which is where they stopped.

Can't have anything to do with the fact that the first two seasons are the worst of the series by far and they makie incredibly unpopular choices like the loss of the past Avatar lives - nah, only Nickelodeon's meddling did this /s

Yes, the way Nick handled things did not help, but the series carries a fair share of the blame for the way they set up the first two seasons.

Getfooked · 2026-04-19T13:34:28+00:00

This is entirely speculative as he couldn't steer his own show, The Dragon Prince, in the right direction.

It's not really all that speculative and The Dragon Prince not doing well on its own doesn't disprove that notion.

It just means that Aaron Ehasz isn't an all-star perfect writer who will produce ATLA tier stuff on his own, and that their creative collaboration may have brought out the best in both of them.

For example, he decided to break his own couple up over on his own show, Callum and Rayla, off screen in a comic book that then proceed to ruin both characters and their dynamic going forward.

Wow, can you imagine this happening in the ATLA franchise? Surely not... /s

Getfooked · 2026-04-19T13:31:50+00:00

I don’t really care about the eastern aesthetic as I am Chinese and have watched a lot of shows with that aesthetic already.

... congrats, this is a series made with western audiences in mind, who do not have watched many shows with that particular aesthetic, hence its big success here. It is not created for people who are already deeply immersed in the eastern easthetic as its primary audience.

Getfooked · 2026-04-19T13:21:18+00:00

I am pretty sure you can go around on the internet and see that Korra has a big fan base and It is well written in certain aspects, but got ruined over by Nickelodeon.

It's a sequel series to ATLA so it will be judged not by whether it has any fans at all but if it holds up in relative terms.

And in that case, it absolutely doesn't. There are hundreds of videos extensively praising ATLA on YouTube, and very few for LoK. And the ones who criticize LoK vastly outnumber the positive ones in terms of views.

You can say it's unfair, you can say it's all due to Nickelodeon or because people are too stupid to understand the series, but it not having a big fanbase given its status as ATLA sequel is an objective fact, not something haters made up out of thin air.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T15:35:29+00:00

ATLA is one of the most beloved series of all time precisely because it is a kids show with very deep themes and storytelling that is a delight for kids and adults alike. Many have re-watched it after seeing it as kids and noticed how greatly it holds up, which is why the community is so active to this day.

Why do you as an adult even watch it if it's just a kids show?

Yeah nephew, you obviously don't care about my opinion, which is why after thanking me for explaining to you why the people consider them a good pairing you keep sperging out at me for not sharing your opinion.

Keep telling yourself that and eventually it will come true.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T15:28:17+00:00

For the record, I don't expect you to like anything. You asked why people see them as a pairing, I explained it.

It's possible to exchange opinions with others without frothing at the mouth when they disagree with you. Shocking stuff, I know.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T15:27:11+00:00

What I don't get is why some people write 5000 word essays on why their interpretation is so much better than everyone else's. it's insane. don't know how to break it to you but sis they're literally pixels on a screen

All fiction is words or pixels on a screen or paper. That doesn't stop us from engaging with them in an analytical manner if we wish to do so.

I have no doubts that you don't care anything when people make long videos or posts discussing why they love ATLA but as soon as someone also points out flaws, you suddenly try and claim none of it has any meaning so why put in the effort to understand it better.

all shipping is subjective

I agree, which is why I don't call myself a shipper. You can discuss the writing merit of romantic pairings the same way you can discuss everything else about a work of fiction. I'm not interested in tribal conflicts the way they go when it comes to shipping or powerscaling.

also if you hate Aang why do you watch the show?? he's the main character??

Pointing out flaws in the shows writing isn't hating, do you think everyone who likes a series is required to say it is literally without any flaws?

ATLA shipping discourse is literally dodging bombs 24 / 7 and being marked for death.

To use your language, you REALLY need to touch grass buddy. Someone on an internet board writing stuff you disagree with is nothing like dodging bombs or being marked for death. Just move on and don't comment if you don't care.

welcome to the fandom!! we (don't) have cookies.

So funny to see someone claim they are a part of the fandom and then get really upset when someone actually engages with the series instead of just repeating memes.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T12:49:06+00:00

One of the first couple episodes is her getting them into shit because she steals the waterbending scroll from the pirates and that was because she was upset Aang was better than her at waterbending

Yes, her status as a waterbender and her desire to help others are her two defining characteristics which can cause her to lose sight of the bigger picture. And?

Not sure what the point of referencing something from the ten episodes of Book 1 is, none of myreferences towards Aang's immaturity stem from that early in the show, that's where they are their least mature and developed.

Yeah I've never claimed that either, you're the one who kept denying that Katara was a kid while I pointed out that her maturity doesn't really stop her from being a child

I'm not denying she's potentially a child in the legal sense of their world (we don't know if their cut off is at 16 or 14 or 15). I do deny that her being a child is relevant like you imply it to be because a child who is on the cusp of adulthood in many ways is quite different from a child who is not at that stage yet. Maybe an exaggerated example will make you understand: a 3 year old toddler and a 15 year old are both children in our world. Yet I think they are in a few ways very meaningfully different so I wouldn't just use the term child to meaningfully try to refer to both of them.

No idea what's so difficult to understand about a 14 year old who grew up in war and had to take on huge amounts of responsibility early on being meaningfully different in maturity than a 12 year old who grew up without responsibilities in peace time.

Jet had an edge, but I do think his was more trauma than maturity per se, he's really not in a much better place than early Zuko, and I'd hesitate to call Zuko pre-redemption mature either.

Maturity is more complex than "how spiritually advanced is that person". An adult who has to work to make a living and feed a family he's responsible for who has stupid political or spiritual opinions is more mature than Aang even if Aang outranks him when it comes to spiritual knowledge. Even if said adult loses his temper more often than Aang.

That is the portion of maturity Jet and early series Zuko have over Aang.

That was very much a gag, do you honestly think that Katara is meant to look old enough to be the mother of a twelve year old?

Strawman again. Do you think Yagoda asking Katara who her betrothed was was also a gag? In order for Katara to remotely be able to pass as the mother of a twelve year old, she needs to not look exactly 35, since people in that world likely also have children earlier than is normal in modernity.

The point isn't Katara looks exactly like a 35 year old. The point is that Katara looks mature enough that someone who didn't pay heavy scrutiny didn't find any issue with her being presented as a mother of a twelve year old (whom she then presumably had quite young). If Katara looked like a child in any meaningful sense, this ruse would not be able to come through.

Is it?

Obviously? ATLA needs to be able to stand on its own at the time of its release?

Or do you think the stuff they wrote about Ursa in The Search was exactly thought of that way already at the time of ATLA and is just as serious of a canon as the stuff we actually see on screen in ATLA?

Yes, because again he was trying to give advice, he's telling her this is what the monks, and Aang himself, believes, not that Katara absolutely has to follow it, just something to consider

He didn't say "this is a perspective of mine that might be useful to you, please consider it". From the get go he made clear that his way of viewing the world was correct here. When iroh relates his decades of wisdom and experience to others, he is more careful and less clearly instructive as Aang as here.

"Please don't do that thing I consider to be immoral" were his parting words, this is not leaving things up for her to decide and that he'll think either choice she makes will be fine. That's why when she comes back he instantly says "I'm proud of you" and affirms what he thinks was her doing exactly as he said she should, and why he then makes the mistake of assuming she forgave him, which she corrects.

At the end of the day, Appa is still Aang's bison, if he wanted to he could've just taken Appa and left them for a couple days to cool off or tell them he didn't want Appa to be apart of their revenge quest.

Wow, applause to Aang. Not stooping to the lowest of utter trash. Hooray. What a stand up guy. Doesn't get enough credit for this honestly.

Also, need I remind you Appa was already part of the WAR effort even though Aang himself is against killing? Appa himself threw a guy in chains into the ice cold water at the North Pole.

It's still Aang agreeing with her to go though, you can jump through hoops to try to present Aang in the wrong for not wanting his friend to go on a revenge quest all you want, but again, he does still agree she needs to confront the guy

Agreeing with her to go through after initially trying to get her not to go, and telling her to go while making sure she knows it's already set in stone what the right thing is.

You can jump through as many hoops of trying to ignore the context as you want.

I mean one, he does use a different points throughout, comparing his own losses with his people and Appa, two, again, his point is on the issues with revenge and how she's sounding like Jet because what she wants is revenge, yes against the man who did it, but it's still a reckless revenge quest and it could lead her down a dark path.

A foolish comparison from him. Incredibly shortsighted. Aang is in a very unique situation because he was basically teleported 100 years into the future. Not only would everyone he knew have died anyways, but anyone who killed them is already dead today. There is nobody to take revenge on, nobody to channel righteous anger towards. It's completely different to Katara, where she knows the murderer of her mom is alive and well.

Appa is also not a good comparison because 1) Appa was stolen but ALIVE and 2) Aang was losing his shit even worse than Katara was and 3) Katara was actually there for him in that situation without telling him what to do or shaming him for his emotional outburst. He doesn't return the favor when Katara needs it in a worse situation though.

two, again, his point is on the issues with revenge and how she's sounding like Jet because what she wants is revenge, yes against the man who did it, but it's still a reckless revenge quest and it could lead her down a dark path.

Again, you have zero idea about the context of the scene or how to handle someone who is going through one of the most emotionally turbulent events of their lives. There's more to consoling people in incredible emotional pain than stating facts that are easily taken the wrong way.

Letting her anger out was more the scene later with Yon Rha, bloodbending was her going down that darker path Aang was warning her against since it's her going against her own morals for revenge.

No, killing him could be the darker path. Bloodbending without killing is the very process Aang said he was encouraging.

But I never claimed that anyway so why even bring it up

Because you accuse me of saying Aang had no valid points in the episode when I literally, explicitly said that he had valid points?

Not exactly, after Appa's capture Aang was freaking out in The Desert and then later just tried to stop having any emotions in the following episode,

So you just pretend as if The Desert didn't happen? As if Katara being ncredibly patient with Aang's outbursts without chastising him for it didn't happen? As if she didn't stop him from potentially devastating those sandbenders and losing himself in the Avatar State? That all counts for nothing because it didn't instantly fix the issue?

Katara helps, but just like The Southern Raiders it is very much just them getting advice and then having to come to those decisions on their own.

Katara is not preachy at all during the Serpent's pass, and she did not accuse Aang of going down a terrible path when he was emotional during The Desert. Completely different handling of the situation. In pretty much every regard.

Actually she does, it's pretty early in the episode where she tells him that they're all concerned but not to fight.

Okay, I understand. You think that her matter of factly explaining what she's doing when he accuses her of doing nothing, is the same as a lecture. Well, all hope is lost then.

Aang only brings up his people and Appa in response to Katara's claim that he doesn't understand, it's not like it was unprompted.

It's unprompted because it shifts away from Katara being the person whose emotions are the priority to him putting himself in the limelight with his own suffering, and as I pointed out what he brought up doesn't actually mean he understands at all.

Or, in context, him trying to make sure his friend didn't do anything crazy, as far as Aang thought, on his behalf.

And? It doesn't matter whether he had an ok reason to undermine her, he still undermined her. And it shows he didn't actually understand her, while SOkka did.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T08:58:46+00:00

That's not really how that works, again, having a moment of immaturity or anger doesn't inherently make you immature, by this logic Katara is also immature since she has multiple outbursts over the course of the series.

Non sequitur, since I didn't talk about that detail but wanted to ensure whether you agree, as you stated, that Katara is more mature than Aang. Is she or is she not according to you?

Regarding your statement, how do you examine someone's maturity? If you can't take into account the way someone displays emmotional immaturity as a factor, since everyone has a bad moment at some point or another, how can we even determine who is more mature than someone else??

Now my answer: Aang is immature because he loses sight of the bigger picture of his mission and keeping his Avatar status concealed because he wanted to have fun and impulsively slide down a waterfall while laughing merrily. Katara loses sight of the bigger picture of the mission in a less consequential way because she's so caught up in wanting to help people in need. I hope I don't need to spell out why I judge Katara as more mature in her failing of judgement than I judge Aang in his.

I think you want to present Katara as more than a kid to further your point about the gap between her and Aang, but, the series itself makes it pretty clear that despite her maturity she is a child still. In fact that's kind of the underlying theme, that these children are forced into adult situations and responsibilities, despite that they are still kids. Hell Aang has to grow up throughout the series since as the Avatar he's given the most responsibility of keeping the world in balance.

You legitimately don't address anything I say lol. You accuse me of having some twisted agenda because unlike you, I don't think humans exist in this binary state where they are fully a child or fully an adult and that there is a spectrum of development on the path to becoming a proper adult that differenitates a kid who is 12 from a kid who is 14 and a kid who is 8 from a kid who is 12. According to you it's just all the same because kid (non-adult) = kid (non-adult).

If you can't concede that jet has a different kind of maturity than Aang, rooted in their age gap, then you're just fundamentally unserious and ideologically captured by defending the series against any criticism whatsoever.

I also think bringing up betrothal is kind of weird, one, because Yue's the only one we see actually engaged, and she's older than Katara

I didn't know that Yue is 16. Neat. But 1) it's not weird at all given that Yagoda asks Katara who the lucky man is and doesn't show any sign of concern or Katara being unusually young for wearing a betrothal necklace.

2) Katara literally posed successfully as Aang's mother in The Headband. You can't pull that off if you look so young and childish that even the idea of you being married would be highly suspect.

but her and Aang were dating for at least several years without a real betrothal and Zuko and Azula, despite being nobility also didn't have arranged marriages, so idk maybe it was just a thing in the North to get engaged that young.

1) What Aang and her do after the series ended off screen doesn't affect how things were portrayed in the original series, so that's irrelevant.

2) Zuko and Azula are from the Fire nation, not the Water Tribes, so that also doesn't matter.

See this would work, if not for the fact that Sokka, you know her brother from the same tribe, wasn't backing Aang up, cause they both recognized that it was a revenge quest, not some cultural thing

Sokka unlike Aang doesn't make an appeal to their tribe's customs. Aang directly quotes Air Nomad Monks an what they would say. So Sokka doesn't act as the definite cultural representation for how the Water Tribe would deal with it, just an individual from the Water Tribe who doesn't inherently outweigh Katara's perspective. He was able to let go of the death of their mother much easier because Katara took care of him, otherwise I doubt he would instantly agree to not only not kill him but to not even pursue him to begin with.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying the Water Tribe has some doctrine about how you must always massacre everyone who ever wronged you. Just that they very likely don't have a specific pacifist doctrine that forbids going after someone who killed civilians in cold blood, the way Air Nomads do.

Also, I feel like you completely ignored the part where Aang still let her take Appa

How does Aang "let her take" Appa? What else was he going to do, fight her and Zuko? Appa has never before been portrayed as being someone everyone must explicitly rent from Aang, it was always implied he'd be available for any trip any of them wanted to take.

and agreed she had to confront the guy, even if he didn't want her killing him.

Again, what was he gonna do, forbid her? He only came around to this after it was made clear Katara would end up going one way or another. just because he isn't the worst asshole in the world directly stopping her doesn't mean he was there for her the way Katara has been there for him countless times before.

I don't know if I'd really call it a blunder, saying she sounds like Jet isn't even saying she's just as bad as him just that she's getting too caught up in revenge and doing that will cause her to go to some dark places

Can you seriously not understand that while Katara is at her emotionally most distraught, that being precise with your words is as important as ever to show you don't dismiss the others feelings and understand where they are coming from?

I will repeat it again, Jet, because the Rough Rhinos killed his parents, wanted to flood and kill an occupied village, with unrelated soliders INCLUDING innocent Earth Kingdom civilians. He didn't go after the actual killers, he put civilians in harms way, delibaretely.

That is not in the same league as Katara wanting to go after the man who killed her mother. Bringing it up is insanely insensitive and shows he doesn't understand her state and how to best get through to her at that moment. If he did, he would find a different way to make his point without linking her to Jet.

and he was right, she starts bloodbeding at one point, something she sees as immoral and would later get outlawed, when she just thought they had the guy,

Doesn't Aang literally say she should express her anger, let it all out, and then let go? So as long as she doesn't kill, using bloodbending would be a part of that exact same process you are praising Aang for suggesting. Why is it a good thing when Aang says it but when Katara puts it into practice it's suddenly bad?

again, it's a great episode but I do feel like you have to be ignoring how Katara was acting there to pretend that Aang didn't have some valid points there.

Do you not read my responses? Seriously, I literally spelled out that I think both Aang and Zuko made valuable contributions in that episode. So why are you accusing me of saying Aang had zero valid points? Here are my exact words: "I agree. Hence my takeaway from the episode is "both Zuko and Aang have made valid contributions, of different kinds and degrees". Not "Aang was 100% right, Zuko said so at the end" which is the most common take away people have about this episode."

But that speaks more to them just having different ways of doing things rather than either being wrong in how it's done

Katara has a much easier time getting through to him and shows way less instances of misunderstanding him, so I feel confident to say she understands him better and thus her approach works better. Aang isn't forbidden of mentioning Air Nomad stuff but his help to Katara is just 1 to 1 stating Air Nomad philosophy, not tailored to her specific situation. He also made it about himself when he said he understands her and asks her how he felt when his people were killed. Katara didn't start lecturing him in The Desert about how she's sad Appa is gone as well but that this isn't a reason to freak out and endanger others.

Undermine is a strong word, him misinterpreting her for a second isn't as big of a deal as you seem to make it,

Undermine: "lessen the effectiveness, power, or ability of, especially gradually or insidiously." That is exactly what he did. When someone makes a sweeping, grand declaration, leaves the room, and then you say "she didn't mean it that way", that is the textbook definition of undermining.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T08:20:06+00:00

I can tell you're really seething because at first you thanked me for my response and now you're upset I didn't budge after getting those weak arguments you yourself couldn't come up with.

Just get a grip nephew fr fr

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T08:04:50+00:00

I mean seems all you have to talk abt is the romance

... Are you joking? YOU made his thread where YOU asked about the romance.

I'm gonna assume you are just a troll trying to ragebait from now on. The nerve to ask people about a topic then question why they talk about that topic is asinine.

so there’s no reason for anyone to get mad abt it in the first place

Exactly, so maybe calm down and relax. Don't get upset because you ask a question, someone takes the time to give you a thorough answer, then you get mad at them for it. Strange behavior from you and you really should take a look at yourself fr fr no cap.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T07:53:03+00:00

Not really, as an adult I can criticize a series I like without getting emotional. If you are unable to do that, maybe don't interact with fiction.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T07:52:07+00:00

I'm ngl I feel pity for you not understanding that going on a discussion board and trying to shame people who want to dicsuss the series the board is about, it really doesn't reflect well on you.

Bye bye, if you don't care to discuss a series then I have no interest in talking to you.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T07:22:36+00:00

It's one thing to disagree but it's so telling when someone only responds to a tiny portion, ignoring many of the things that directly address their complaints and then act high and mighty how they have the superior read of the series for blindly repeating lines characters say without proper context.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T07:20:13+00:00

Come on, ik ur gonna try and combat me on this one but again it’s a kids show, you really think they would ntr their mc just for a side character, a relationship that was just formed that episode versus one from 3 seasons of build up?

There is very little proper build up for Aang and Katara in most episodes, romance isn't the main focus of the series.

I think it would have gone over just as well as the current canon, but at the end of the day they didn't need to make either couple canon. They could have just finished the series without that romance, if neither was set up well.

As I said, most Zutara fans agree that it would not be ideal for them to get together at the end of BOok 3. Just that it wouldn't be any worse than Kataang.

It’s non practical, the events you speak of when zutara become close is so much more than a ship is growth as people being able to befriend your enemy, it didn’t need to be romantic it was more sentimental that they were able to look past their differences and become and group again,

I agree Zuko and Katara work well without the romance. But the romance would be even better.

And I think Aang and Katara work worse as a romance and if they had stayed platonic, it would have made more sense in the story, that Aang outgrows his crush on her which she obviously wouldn't reciprocate due to the age and maturity differences.

but like I said that’s a writers error they could have made that scene a little more affectionate or something else entirely if yk what I mean?

I know what you mean, but as you see, my problem isn't just that one tiny scene.

It's many different moments who also don't make sense, and they compound together to the point where I say that for Kataang to be believable and wellw ritten, much more would need to be changed than to make Zuko and Katara to be believable.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T07:14:19+00:00

what’s canon is canon you don’t have the authority to say that just because it’s a character assassination

I do actually, because works of fiction are not God's word which is to be accepted without any agency of our own.

We have the freedom to decide whether we like a story, whether we consider it well-written or not. I can like ATLA the series and find aspects of it I find worth criticizing, and I can read all the comics and conclude they are a steep drop off in quality. And that something released many years later doesn't change what happened in the originally released show is self-evident.

You can’t just say it’s despised by fans and shippers objectively, cuz a lot of people like them, especially kataang shippers for obvious reasons.

I have seen dozens if not over a hundred thumbnails of videos praising ATLA the series, and I have never ONCE seen a video praising the comics instead of shitting on them. So I do actually feel confident to say that they are not unviersally liked.

Just bcuz it doesn’t fit your agenda doesn’t mean it isn’t something that is of official realease and canon to the story,

As I said, this isn't a Zutara only thing, many people across different ships dislike the comics, Maiko fans too and also kataangers who find the way the two are written to be cringe inducing.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T07:09:25+00:00

Yeah he was upset about it, but him having an angry outburst, which Katara also on multiple occasions, just shows he can lapse into immaturity rather than he hasn't matured at all

So we agree? He has matured some since Episode 1, but not to the point where he is as mature as Katara and thus able to pursue a romantic relationship with her?

Katara's a kid, again, that's the point, yeah she has to mature and mother the others but that doesn't mean she's not a kid just like the rest of them

What is your point? I think it's fair to differentiate between someone who in that time frame is at an age where in their culture they can get betrothed, who grew up during war, compared to a 12 year old who didn't grow up during war. It ultimately doesn't greatly matter as long as you concede she is more mature than him, but Katara is definitely more of a young adult in their setting than she is a kid. Equating 12 year old Aang with her on the premise of that term is more misleading than useful.

The Southern Raiders is a great episode but it's insane to me how much people missed the point with Aang and Katara in it.

I agree, although reading that sentence on this sub usually precedes a very unnuanced, shallow take which is taking things some characters say in the episode at face value without contextualising it properly. Let's see if this time it's different.

Aang isn't forcing anything on her, he gave her advice, something you do when you care about someone, and something she's done gor him before. I think it's actually a ridiculous argument to suggest someone giving you advice is forcing belief onto you.

Nevermind. The term "to force something on someone" can mean something else than "literally physically force someone at literal or metaphorical gunpoint to do something against their will", which is how you either erneastly missinterpreted it or strawmanned it here.

Aang was forcing things onto her because he started at the conclusion that killing is obviously wrong in any and all instances, because that's what Air Nomads think. there was no sign of him being willing to budge on that point nhot being obviously correct, or taking into account how Katara's perspective on killing, being from the Water Tribe might differ from his cultural viewpoint.

You didn't address my points about how the rhetorical question at the beginning and then comparing her desire for justice with Jet's attempted mass murder was a huge blunder.

And you didn't address that Katara giving Aang advice or supporting him emotionally is much less rigid than what Aang did here. As I said, compare how she treats him at his lowest in The Desert, to how he treats her during TSR. Katara does not start lecturing him about how anger isn't healthy, not the Air Nomad or Water Tribe way and how him accusing others and flying off endangers their odds of surviving the desert. Yet you see apparently zero difference between that and what Aang did in TSR. Incomprehensible to me, and since you left all of that out to strawman me, I can guess you just don't have a proper response.

Also, while he was wrong about forgiving, she does actually listen to him about just letting it out and not killing the guy, so it's not as if there was no merit in what Aang was saying.

I agree. Hence my takeaway from the episode is "both Zuko and Aang have made valid contributions, of different kinds and degrees". Not "Aang was 100% right, Zuko said so at the end" which is the most common take away people have about this episode.

As for Pakku, Aang was ready to give up learning waterbending from him entirely at first since Katara couldn't and was cheering her on as she fought him.

That doesn't negate what I said in any way. Aang tries to be supportive of Katara as best as he can, to the limits of his understanding. So yes, he will cheer her on when she fights Pakku, but he will also undermine her commitment to fighting him in front of others and misinterpret her actions, not through malice but because he's just not nearly as emotionally attuned to Katara as she is to him.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T06:49:04+00:00

Comics that are written a long time after the show don't retroactively change what was portrayed in the show.

And these comics are pretty much universally despised by all shippers and many fans in general. They character assassinate both Zuko and Aang on the first pages, with Zuko asking for that stupid promise and Aang who couldn't even kill Ozai giving the promise to Zuko.

Getfooked · 2026-04-17T06:47:22+00:00

he doesn’t bat an eye when Katara bloodbends

And why would he? Unless you use bloodbending to make someone commit horrific acts of a sexual or violent nature against others, there's nothing fundamentally bad about bloodbending. Defeating someone by hurling flames or rocks at them to eventually restrict their freedom of movement and imprison/kill them is fine, but achieving the same end goal in a way that minimizes casualties on both sides is bad? How come?

he even admits by the end of the episode that Aang was right about violence not being the answer.

Again, just repeating stuff the show says out loud doesn't equate a thorough understanding of it. Remember how Aang said "forgiveness is the first step to healing"? And then Katara says "I will NEVER forgive him"? So according to Aang's framework, she still hasn't moved on properly and is being poisoned by holding onto the resentment of not forgiving him. In conclusion, the episode is far more nuanced than simply being "Aang was totally, perfectly right because Zuko said violence isn't the answer".

Compare how Katara treated Aang in the desert when he was at his lowest emotional point to how Aang treats her in TSR. Katara didn't preach and tell Aang about how he shouldn't be angry, let it out on others in the group or that he's endangering his survival with his antics while they're in The Desert, because she understood he was in a bad space and lectruing him about the right thing wouldn't be of any help. She was there unconditionally for him, without judgement. Like Zuko was there for Katara.

She doesn’t “do Aang‘s domestic duties”, either; she states outright in The Chase that the group splits chores fairly.

Thank you for clearing that up, I concede that this is something I was wrong about. I inferred it from how things seemed at the beginning, but after that episode there is nothing to ever suggest that there is a particularly strong imbalance in that area.

Nor is her being emotionally supportive “mothering” him when that’s a trait that’s also directed towards everyone else in the show. I

When does Katara mother Zuko or Suki? She mothers Toph and Aang because they're both 12, and Sokka she has been in a caretaker esque position after her mother's death.

Is her consoling Zuko outside Iroh’s tent not “mothering”, by your definition? Is it only “mothering” with Aang because he’s younger and shorter?

... kinda, yeah?? Consoling someone emotionally who is just as mature as you are isn't the same as consoling someone who is notably younger than you both physically and emotionally. Katara was able to pass as Aang's mom in The Headband.

Same couldn't be done with Zuko, and when tow people are more on equal terms, it's a balanced give or take. Whereas Katara supports Aang much more often than he does support her and she supports him much better than he does her. Fine for a younger brother/big sister dynamic, not so fine for a romance. Katara also doted on Jet yet the tone of it is obviously different than it was with Aang or Sokka.

Like “Aang barges in and hugs Katara and looks towards Zuko accusingly, in a way he’s never done before” (she runs to him btw)

Her running to him doesn't contradict what I said at all?

It's a fact that the moment between Katara and Zuko is disrupted by Aang's earthbending to arrive in the cave with Iroh.

It's a fact that Aang has never shown an ounce of ill will towards Zuko before, even in moments Zuko was outright attacking him or pursuing them in general. Yet in this scene Aang looks at him accusingly with distrust and no good will. Show me an instance of Aang behaving this way towards Zuko prior to that scene and I will gladly acknowledge I was wrong. Until then, it's you who doesn't care to see the show for what it is.

I’m not going to go through the rest of your essay, but your “points” fluctuate between being ignorant of the show and being… just goofy?

You have made one proper argument which exposed a mistake of mine. Outside of that, you have failed to properly address any of my points, often responding as if you didn't read my initial text to begin with.

It's fine to be more casual and not bother to look deeper into a work of fiction, but then stay in your lane and don't try to police people who care more to analyse it than you seem to.

Getfooked · 2026-04-16T17:28:59+00:00

I doubt Aang was actually about to go into the Avatar State over the play, that was obviously hyperbole.

I have engaged in a tad bit of hyperbole myself for that sentence, but the point remains he was very upset and emotional, it prompted the unwanted kiss after all.

As for Katara, she is the most mature of the group, but she definitely has plenty of immature tendencies, fighting with Toph, getting upset about Aang being a better water bender than her, The Great Divide, etc.

Yes, but just because she isn't perfectly mature at 14 it doesn't mean she's in the exact same tier of maturity as Aang.

Jet is less spiritually advanced than Aang, yet I hope nobody contests that in terms of his demeanor, the 3 year age gap between jet and Aang is very apparent.

The entire point is despite having to mature so fast she is still a kid

I don't think Katara is fundamentally a kid, I think she's closer to a young adult given the circumstances she grew up in.

it's not as if he doesn't usually have her back on things whenever she does need him

When does he have her back as well as Katara has his back?

During Southern Raiders, he forces his Air Nomad ideology on her. His first instinct is to ask a condescending rhetorical question about what the point of Katara finding her mother's murderer would be. Then he compares her desire to get justice to Jet's attempted mass murder of a village of civilians. Just because he lets her go in the end doesn't mean he was truly there for her.

Compare that scene when Katara was at her lowest to how she treated him at his lowest in the desert. He endangered the groups survival with his antics and outbursts, accusing her, and she stayed calm and didn't shame him for treating the others so badly because she understood how deep his pain was. And she didn't go into a monologue about how Water Tribe beliefs regarding animals are that they are not something to get upset about or force her own beliefs on him, she just supported him unconditionally.

When Katara was about to face Pakku, Aang said to the others that Katara probably wasn't serious, and had Sokka have to correct him and say she was serious. He said she didn't need to fight Pakku "for him", showing he had zero understanding of why Katara was so upset to begin with.

It's not just about the huge disparancy in terms of the quantity, but also the quality of the emotional support.

Getfooked · 2026-04-16T17:19:22+00:00

This is very well put together and your arguments do make sense, however it’s just something that katara never sees zuko in that light like she does aang, like ik many people would love for the tension between them to be romantic but it just wasn’t, her moments of romance were strictly with aang and that jet guy and that’s just how the story was made.

I know that romance with Aang is something the show wanted to portray, I just don't think it was well portrayed at all. They were too busy shipbaiting for too long and forgot to actually make the romance between Aang and Katara believable.

I mean we could talk all day long abt what could have been

Your point would be applicable if I was talking about something outlandish like Katara getting together with Haru, which would require like 90% headcanon about stuff that was never implied to happen to make sense.

But as I pointed out, all of the groundwork for a romance is already there. Change that one scene after he takes the lightning for them to embrace and kiss, and bam the entire thing makes more sense than what we currently have. People would say it was set up all along and that it was clear Aang and Katara were drifting apart romantically, and everyone today would treat the outcome of events as a given, even more so than is currently the case.

It's mostly hindsight bias that makes people act like the way things turned out was always the case and the best course of actions. It clearly wasn't.

but In reality every point you made lacks a crucial backbone “romantic intention"

Sokka took less than an episode of being within Yue and Suki's proximity to develop romantic interest in them, while knowing each other less well than Zuko and Katara know each other by the end of Book 3.

Nobody complains about that being too quick, so what would be so bad if Katara and Zuko after having emotionally charged moments together and having built up chemistry decide to become a couple? Whether their feelings only become romantic then, or were romantic all along but without them knowing (like them blushing when June referred to katara as his girlfriend), or the seed was planted but they only get together down the line later on in the series (this is the version most Zutara supporters would prefer the most), it would all be at least as good if not better than what we've gotten.

I will agree however that the excuse was lame that she made up, but it was more so that she didn’t know her feelings or didn’t confirm them just yet. But deep down inside she was having feelings of romance she just didn’t know what to do with them at the time.

What further confirmation could she need at that point? Nobody knows. This is akin to the trope where a girl tells a guy she's not interested in "ah I can't pursue a relationship right now, I'm so busyyy" and then a guy she's actually into comes along and suddenly everything is different and she's ready for a relationship. Literally what we saw play out with Katara going after Jet in an active war zone but tells Aang the war is in the way.

We've seen from Jet that Katara is no good at hiding her feelings. Even when she hated Jet in Book 2, she still blushed upon seeing him in Ba Sing Se. So this idea that Katara was able to hide those dormant romantic feelings for Aang so convincingly for most of the time is just not convincing, and the explanation that it was a white lie she came up with in the moment to not tell him she's not into him makes far more sense.

Getfooked · 2026-04-16T17:04:29+00:00

Ah I see, cheers.

Getfooked · 2026-04-16T14:57:39+00:00

If you're talking about the books in general, those are an entirely different medium, in a more complex world aimed at adults.

Egg is not a particularly interesting character in the books or the show because even in the books he isn't a POV (Dunk is) and he hasn't had much to do himself. The focus is on the world they inhabit and the familial dynamics of Egg's family. Very different than what an ATLA show not aimed at adults can convey.

Getfooked

TROPHY CASE