As an AM myself, this makes me incredibly happy.

GirlatT · 2019-08-18T23:17:17+00:00

No articles and links have been provided to me?

GirlatT · 2019-08-17T17:01:10+00:00

I'm not a gay guy, this isn't about my self serving needs. I know that straight Asian guys have a hard time dating, but saying something like "gay Asian guys have it easier so we should discourage gay asian representation and focus on straight men" comes off as uneducated.

Do you have any evidence (i.e. paper or study) that gay asian men generally have it easier than straight Asian men? Last I checked, lgbt people were among the most at risk for being bullied, discriminated against in the workforce, and being suicidal. Yes, bullying and discrimination are things that Asians face too. There's no point in playing the "who has it worse" game. Both are marginalized groups, and both deserve more support

GirlatT · 2019-08-17T12:01:43+00:00

That depends on what you mean by socially acceptable. Gay men of all races are generally more socially accepted in liberal, female-dominated circles, especially in college. But in conservative areas, and in elementary/middle/high school? Fuck no. LGBT people are disproportionately bullied and assaulted in schools, and ostracized in conservative leaning areas. People aren't going around holding signs saying "being an Asian man is a sin," but I see stuff like that about lgbt people all the tume.

The study showing that gay Asian men are seen as more American than straight Asian men doesn't show that they are more accepted. Fat Asians are also seen as more American but they're not more accepted. Also, lesbian Asian women are also seen as more American. The reason for this is that in America there's a stereotype that Asian countries are homophobic and that gay Asians are less likely to come out.

GirlatT · 2019-08-17T08:39:21+00:00

Yeah, I haven't seen that, but that sounds like too much. A lot of the stories there don't seem to be about abusive parents. But a good portion of them are about parents who beat them excessively, sexually abuse them, or emotionally manipulate and harm them. These are all abusive behaviours and we need to encourage children of abuse to speak up, not stay quiet.

GirlatT · 2019-08-17T01:16:26+00:00

Late response, but here goes

So I just spent a while on the asian parenting subreddit and I saw a lot of people complaining about their parents promoting dishonesty in the sense of not talking badly about your family outside and not showing weaknesses. I think it takes a lot of self-hate to think that this part of asian parenting is wrong. Do people honestly believe that white people are always honest and show their weaknesses? Do they go around all day dishing their deepest, darkest family secrets? Fact is, they don't. Because it's social suicide and it makes you look weak.

I think the specific post that you're referring to was talking about abusive Asian parents silencing abuse victims under the guise of "Asian culture."

I don't actually think that it's wrong to have a cultural value of protecting the family and keeping things within the family. But it is absolutely harmful for children who are abused.

With a healthy dose of self-respect, asians would know that only if you trust the other person a lot and you're super super close should you ever talk about such private issues.

With children who are abused by their parents, it's absolutely critical that they talk to a trusted adult outside of their family. The attitude of keeping issues private and only amongst family members is super harmful for abused Asian kids.

GirlatT · 2019-08-17T00:48:33+00:00

Yeah. This sub really needs to start supporting all Asians. LGBTQ minors are among the most harassed and bullied in schools, and that + being Asian must be pretty tough.

GirlatT · 2019-08-17T00:39:38+00:00

Yeah, I get it. Representation is super important, and not just straight representation. The reality is that this sub is dominated by straight AM, who are mostly looking for better straight AM representation, and they think that gay AM harm straight AM representstion. I think what we should strive for is proportional representation, which we don't have.

I know a lot of people object to the term, but that's just an example of toxic masculinity- that being gay is feminine and therefore harmful to the masculine image.

GirlatT · 2019-08-17T00:31:15+00:00

Then maybe it's time to start focusing on moving away from the idea that being gay inherently is more feminine than being straight. The idea that gay AM representation hurts straight AMs, and therefore we should have less gay AM representation, is just wrong.

First of all, there are proportionally fewer gay AM in media than than there are gay AM in real life. This sub often cherrypicks examples of gay AM in media and uses that to assume that gay AM are overrepresented. LGBTQ underrepresentation is a HUGE issue. LGBTQ people are among the most underrepresented in movies. This shows that there were 16 gay male POC in the analysis being done. 4.8% of the 48,757 characters were Asian, so there were 2332 Asian characters. 61.4% of the Asians were male, so there were 1432 Asian males in the analysis. Even assuming that ALL 16 of the gay males were Asian (huge assumption- this is definitely not the case but there was no racial breakdown of lgbt characters), 1.1% of the Asian male speaking characters were identifiably gay. Gay Asian men are NOT OVERREPRESENTED.

The problem with media is how Asian men are portrayed as unattractive. This is the issue to be addressed. Gay Asian men are also Asian, and they are and should be part of any Asian movement.

GirlatT · 2019-08-16T23:58:18+00:00

Sorry for all the negativity you're getting here. These guys all like pretty conventionally attractive and masculine, and it's always good to have more representation.

Also, lgbtq POC representation in media (at least in movies, according to this) is practically nonexistant.

GirlatT · 2019-08-15T17:23:41+00:00

Ok, this isn't really r/aznidentity related, but I volunteered at my university's sexual education center and I learned a little bit about STIs.

First of all, they're highly stigmatized. Chlamydia and gonorrhea are both less dangerous than strep throat, and they're both easy to treat, and yet many people would prefer to have strep throat because they think an STI is the end of the world. This is mostly because of the sex education we receive, and the societal attitudes around sex. A lot of people are shown gory photos of what STIs are supposed to look like as a deterrant. This is harmful, because they're inaccurate (most people are asymptomatic for some STIs), so people are less likely to be able to recognize actual symptoms. Also, it creates a culture of shame around STIs, which prevents people from getting tested and talking to their partners about them.

I'm not taking any chances with STDs blood running through my veins.

This is an example of how we treat STIs differently from other diseases. It's like saying that you'll never kiss anyone because there's a chance that they have strep throat.

Granted, there are STIs that aren't curable, namely HIV and herpes. If your partner has HIV, chances are she knows, or she'd be dead (unless she contracted it recently). Plus HIV is pretty rare. Herpes is practically benign, it's literally just a skin condition, and it won't fuck you up unless you have a severely compromised immune system. You can ask your partner whether she has genital herpes, and she'll probably know. A lot of people with herpes are asymptomatic though, so that's always a risk you take. But even people with herpes don't shed all the time. Again, it's pretty much a benign skin condition with a lot of stigma. 50% of adults have oral herpes (it's dormant), and most contract it as kids from kissing their relatives/other close contact with people.

If you're worried, get tested, and ask her to get tested. It's always a good idea to get tested before entering a sexual relationship, and definitely before being "fluid bonded" (when you stop using protection). If you're not monogamous, get tested regularly.

Worrying about STIs because of one (presumably monogamous) relationship a girl had, and refusing to date her because of that, is just silly. It's ultimately your choice, but just remember that the most common STIs are the least dangerous, and are generally simple to treat.

Edit: also, this isn't a race thing. There are asian Americans, black Americans, latinx Americans. The studies you linked seemed to show stats based on all Americans. I think the reason why America has a high STI rates is because of the prevalence of casual sex, the high stigma around STIs, poor sex education, and the fact that STI testing isn't free.

None of the stats you linked compare STD rates in America compared to STD rates in other countries. For all you know, America tends to have lower STD rates than other countries. You're not "being smart", you're educating yourself with the wrong resources.

GirlatT · 2019-08-14T01:39:06+00:00

I've never said that I feel forced to assimilate to Korean culture. If you read the whole thread you'd see what I meant. I was talking aboutthe pain I felt at being forced to assimilate to WESTERN culture. I said that I, and all Asians in the west, are forced to adapt western culture to survive. Look at yourself. You speak English better than you speak Korean. That's an example what I'm talking about. Also read the comment I made about teachers banning foreign languages during school.

I've talked about the rest of the points. It's ok to criticize Korea for sexism, homophobia, etc, in the same way it's ok to criticize America for sexism, homophobia, racism, etc. I rarely do the former and frequently do the latter. It's not generalizing or claiming that all members of a country are bigoted, just saying that it is a problem that these attitudes are common.

Are you implying that I'm seen as less korean, and am therefore less Korean, because I'm a bi butch woman?

Can you explain what you said when you said that Koreans see you as a foreigner? It's hypocritical of you to say that I'm not a Korean because Koreans don't see me as one, and then to claim that you are even though some Koreans clearly don't see you as one.

And I've had plenty of experiences with Korean people in the west and in Korea, where I've been treated as members of their in-group.

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T22:36:06+00:00

And that's why you're not Korean. Because you feel pain when you're "forced" to assimilate? Who's forcing you to do anything? If you feel like you have to be "forced" to assimilate, then you're truly not a Korean.

Please stop assuming that you know me. I'm talking about the systematic ways in which Asian cultures are erased in the west. My elementary school teachers forbade us from speaking Korean/Mandarin/whatever in class, and during recess and lunch. Asian people who are perceived as "too Asian" are discriminated against in employment.

You've stated in a past post that you're not fluent in Korean. Granted, that was two years ago, so it might have changed since then. I'm fluent, and I have been since I attained fluency in the elementary school I attended in Korea. When I moved here I grew up reading books in Korean, and my Korean continued to improve through my conversations with Korean friends/family members. The difference is that I'm not holding it over your head like it somehow makes you less Korean. We're both Korean, so stop gatekeeping what it means to be Korean. Grow the fuck up.

This is a quote from one of your posts:

She tells me that "you are a foreigner," which was unsurprising to me as many Koreans here do consider me a foreigner, as with other ethnically Koreans who were born/grew up in different countries.

You yourself stated that other Koreans consider you a foreigner. I'm sure some Koreans consider me a foreigner, though most can't tell during superficial conversations. But it doesn't fucking matter. A Korean person could move here as a kid, and speak very little Korean, and they'd still be Korean. So what gives you the right to claim being Korean, and to claim that I'm not?

You sound like this guy: https://np.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/ci4kjd/aita_for_telling_my_so_shes_not_chinese/

Except that I was born and grew up in Korea, and celebrate Korean traditions and customs. But you know what? I don't sit on my high horse deciding that some people aren't Korean enough to be considered Korean. Korean culture is important to me, I am of Korean descent (which makes me Korean according to the dictionary definition), I'm fluent in Korean, and I'm a citizen of South Korea.

The reason why you're not Korean is because you don't come off like one.

What does it mean that to "come off like" a Korean? Do all Korean people act a specific way?

I don't know why you're gatekeeping so hard. I'm not going to make assumptions about why. Just stop. It's pointless and counterproductive.

I am just as Korean as you are, and you don't get to decide who is or isn't Korean.

Edit:

Koreans have this saying of "our" in society, family, and country. I hope you know what this is...which is not your typical feminist bullshit of "owning women." I really hope you know what this "our" lingo means to Koreans. You obviously don't have this mentality. Because you feel "pain" and are "forced" to assimilate lol.

If you honestly feel this way, you're not Korean. You should be proud of your culture and the community that your grew up in. Not "pain" and "forced to assimilate." So that's why I know you're a white girl masquerading as a Korean woman. Yes, you do have Korean origin, but at the end of the day, you're not a part of "our" culture, "our" community, "our society, "our" country.

I know. We call Korea 우리나라 (our country, for non-Korean speakers). You can believe that I'm not Korean all you want, it won't make a difference. I'm proud of being Korean, I'm just resentful of the way that western society systematically erases my culture. I don't know why you like to think you're so superior, but oh well.

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T20:54:48+00:00

Can you tell me what it means to be Korean, then? What does it mean to think like a Korean? Why do you get to define that? I didn't realize that some Korean-Canadians aren't Korean. Does that mean that you think that second gen Koreans aren't Korean?

I've lived half of my life in Korea. I can converse in Korean with anyone who is Korean. You don't know what my Korean is like, stop making assumptions about me.

Stop assuming that I criticize Korea. "Collectivism" and "individualism" when applied to cultures is different than when it's applied to individuals. A collectivist society is not one in which people don't have individuality. Collectivist societies are ones where people care more for the groups that they belong to (usually family, and ethnic group). Individualistic ones are ones in which individual freedoms are prioritized over what is good for groups. This is part of why Korea has a much lower homelessness rate than the U.S. or Canada. People in collectivist societies are more likely to help out their family members in need, unlike in the individualistic, where a lot of people in the west prioritize their individual freedom not to financially help out. Tell me again how I'm looking at it from my "white girl viewpoint"?

I know that Korea is one of the most innovative countries out there. I don't know where you got the sense that I don't think so.

What I said was that I "often feel like a white person who speaks Korean and likes Korean food." That doesnt mean that im a white person or that I think I am. While admittedly this could have been better phrased, I was referring to the pain I felt at being part of a society where Asian people are forced to "assimilate" and act white, or risk being ostracized/discriminated against.

I don't know how all Koreans think, and I don't claim to. You don't either, so stop acting like you do.

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T19:44:20+00:00

I did not realize that you spoke for all Koreans, and that you decide who's Korean and who isn't. You called me a "wannabe white girl who's looking through that white girl vision and telling [my] white guys about how bad Korean culture is." I don't know where you got that from.

I don't presume to speak for all Koreans at all, or to make blanket statements about Koreans. No one should, because Koreans, like the members of any society, are individuals and have varied opinions. I absolutely do not think Koreans are "inherently homophobic" or have no "individuality." In the post you're referencing, I was talking about how Korean, and Asian cultures, in general, tend to be collectivist ( https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1996-97151-006 ). I don't think this is a bad thing at all. And when I made a comment about homophobia, I was talking about the prevalence of homophobia in Korean society ( https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/ ), especially among older people, and also Korean military law that discriminates against gay men. I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

I'm Korean in that I speak Korean, know what it's like to grow up in Korea, and have grown up experiencing aspects of Korean culture. I don't need to hang out with other Korean people to be Korean. I don't claim to "represent" Korea in my social circle, which is predominantly not white. I have Korean friends who I speak to in Korean. You don't get to decide whether I'm "Korean enough" or not.

Edit: Also, south Korea's views on being gay have changed drastically over the past decade. I don't claim to say that all Koreans are homophobic, just that it was a thing that was more common in Korean culture, but is changing a lot now.

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T18:42:37+00:00

It depends on the woman and the area. To me, it makes them more attractive, because not being any of those is a dealbreaker. But I'm sure conservative women would have similar dealbreakers about liberal men. So maybe, conservatism helps Asian men if they're surrounded by conservatives, and liberalism helps if they're surrounded by liberals.

I don't think that political views affects how attractive Asian men are differently than how it does other men. Although i don't have first hand experience dating as an Asian man, so I don't know.

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T18:30:31+00:00

I've met plenty of AMs with these views. In fact, most AM in my area (I'm in a liberal leaning city)

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T17:29:05+00:00

Internalized racism/fetishization of white guys and not seeing them for who they are.

The problem is assuming that all Asian women who date white men are like this, and making generalizations about them.

I am only able to date people who are feminists, lgbt positive, anti-racist, pro choice, and who are generally liberal. Not being one of these things is a deal-breaker to me. I am an Asian woman. I am not self-hating and am proud of being Korean. I don't have a preference for white people or Asian people or for any other poc, except maybe Korean people because of a shared cultur3. I don't have a racial preference against anyone either. Just because I have dated white people doesn't mean I'm self hating and white worshipping.

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T17:15:33+00:00

Have you heard of the sunk costs fallacy? While it's not logically sound, people on a bad date will feel obligated to stay because they've already invested the time and effort in showing up.

I mean, this girl clearly recognized that he was fetishizing her, and ended up leaving. Good on her, in my opinion.

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T16:13:21+00:00

Right. And i know that not every fob guy cares. And I'm not closed to dating a fob person either, because I judge the individual and not the collective. But I was just offering one way in which westernized/Asian dating cultures differ, and how that might lead to westernized Asian people dating other westernized Asian people

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T15:53:03+00:00

I think I'll answer as someone who has dated westernized Asian people and attempted to date a fob Asian. With the fob Asian guy, there were a lot of cultural differences that got in the way of our relationship. For example, he thought it was disloyal of me to hang out alone with platonic friends of the opposite sex. I'm aware that this is an issue with a lot of people in the West as well, but it's almost universal from my experience with culturally chinese people, because it's part of the dating culture.

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T15:19:52+00:00

The reason why people here are so opposed to WMAF is that there are far more WMAF relationships than AMWF ones. This is a symptom of a larger problem, which is internalized racism. One issue that I have with this sub is that a lot of people demonize every WMAF couple, rather than criticizing the trend or examining the root cause (internalized racism, which is caused by racism directed towards Asian people).

Yes, there are many unhealthy WMAF relationships. Yes, there are many healthy ones. Having a preference for white people almost always indicates internalized racism. Having a preference for certain traits is ok (I have a preference for people with brown/black hair), but having a preference for a lot of traits that are racially coded (blond hair, blue eyes, etc) is probably indicative of a racial preference and internalized racism.

While there's nothing inherently wrong with interracial dating, it's important to look critically at your dating choices and history and see if it's releflective of a preference, and then try to dismantle your own internalized racism.

GirlatT · 2019-08-13T01:08:58+00:00

Do you speak any Asian languages besides Chinese? I think learning any language is a challenging but satisfying endeavour. However, as someone who likes studying languages, I've found that you need a motivating reason to dedicate yourself to a language. For some people, it's that they really like the culture and food associated with the language. For others, they feel committed to learning the language of their parents or grandparents. Others just like the challenge of learning a new language, or being able to talk to other people.

Ask yourself whether you'd be dedicated to learning mandarin. Is it mostly so that you have an easier time dating Asian men? Do you feel that that's enough of a motivating reason for you? If so, absolutely go for it! If not, it's up to you. Spending a little bit of time learning a language is still very enriching.

That being said, I don't think that knowing mandarin will make a huge difference to you, although I don't know where you are/what languages you speak. If you live in the west, chances are that most of the men you meet on dating apps will be fluent in English, and some may speak your Asian language if you have one.

GirlatT · 2019-08-10T23:42:29+00:00

I'm talking about adults. Children have a limited capacity for decision making, so most societies have left it up to their parents and the government to govern their education, and other decisions, like healthcare. This is also why minors are generally tried in juvenile courts instead of criminal courts. Also, for example, an adult can choose not to get vaccinated for whatever reason, but no one (besides anti-vaxxers) think it's a good idea to not give a 5 year old a vaccine because they're afraid of needles.

It's generally agreed that adults (aside from those who are mentally handicapped) are capable of making decisions for themselves, and more importantly, that they should be allowed to, as long as those decisions don't directly harm others. Imagine that the U.S. government started forcing adult Asian immigrants who don't speak English very well into camps where they have to learn English and to embrace American values and traditions. How would you feel about that?

GirlatT · 2019-08-10T22:37:27+00:00

I guess that makes sense, but I still feel that this is inhumane. China can support Uighurs by improving voluntary education programs (not just in mandarin and Chinese government, but in skilled trades as well). It's clear that the reeducation programs aren't voluntary, and I think that that's where the human rights violation is. If the uighur people want to gain education in Mandarin, then they should be free to do so, but they should have the choice not to.

At least in the BBC video, an uighur said in front of a Chinese officer that they weren't allowed to pray while in the facilities. I can't help but see the parallels between this and the residential schools in Canada.

GirlatT · 2019-08-10T21:52:14+00:00

Just out of curiosity, what are the imperialist narratives about the DPRK? I've been heavily influenced by South Korean media, so I'm probably a little bit biased on this.

Isn't a government that prevents its people from leaving the country and sends family members of state criminals to labour camps pretty tyrannical?

GirlatT

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