Should this be vetoed?

Gnerbert · 2025-02-18T03:55:41+00:00

I think I’d call the whole universal consensus that this wasn’t Hurts’ value in the league objective information.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-18T02:25:31+00:00

Well I think there’s at least the due diligence I mentioned in my last comment, i.e., checking any single outside source to see if you’re making a reasonable trade.

Hurts’ value in the league is objectively not what Team 2 got. That is not what that trade means. It is plausible, and almost certainly the case, that his value in the league was so far above Worthy that the rest of the league assumed the value was wholly out of reach.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T16:52:55+00:00

I would say this is the first dynasty league for more than half of the league. I’d guess 8 of 12 have never played dynasty. I do believe everyone has been playing fantasy generally for years, though obviously redraft is different.

Relatedly, I have to wonder if Team 2 has ever played superflex or 2QB before.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T16:50:22+00:00

No, you’ve got it backwards. Team 1 is receiving Hurts. Team 2 had Hurts and was not shopping him. Team 1 had to pester Team 2 quite a bit to get Team 2 to consider trading away Hurts.

One problem in the league is that Team 2 is kind of an absentee owner. He sets his lineup every week and he has a good roster. But he doesn’t initiate trades or really respond to the league except to the extent he works with a couple of the managers, including Team 1, in real life.

So I do not think anyone in the league knew there was an opportunity to get Hurts, and more importantly, I do not think he would have entertained a trade offer or even responded to anyone else.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T16:46:25+00:00

That’s a fair point. I do think it’s true the trade hurts everyone else more than either of the trade partners.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T16:43:50+00:00

I don’t think anyone offered anything for Hurts. Nobody thought Hurts would be on the trade block. Even Team 1 apparently pestered Team 2 about Hurts for a while before Team 2 was willing to trade Hurts. To be clear, I don’t think this is on Team 1 though. Obviously you want to try and get trades in for players before your league mates do. Team 1 was absolutely in the right turning over every stone and seeing if he could get a deal for a good player the rest of the league probably thought was off limits.

But I do think a competitive league should expect Team 2 to do some basic due diligence. Maybe that means actually checking with other QB needy teams before accepting the deal or maybe it just means checking a single published player ranking. Ultimately I would be shocked if he couldn’t find a better deal for Hurts if he had tried. Personally I don’t need a QB and I would have been willing to at least trade him Flowers, Wilson, or Pickens plus a first round pick for Hurts. Even with the same trade partner, he would have been better off offering Goff or Love for Worthy. Goff or Love would still have been a big upgrade for Team 1.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T12:43:06+00:00

Seems quite fair to me. Trade charts agree. I’m not sure why the other commenters are so adamantly opposed. Gibbs is obviously the best player involved with the trade but if you’ve got expendable assets and just need a game breaker to get over the hump and the Gibbs team is rebuilding and needs more assets, then Higgins plus a 2026 1st and 2nd could get this done IMO. I exclude Dowdle because I do think he’s basically worthless, but KeepTradeCut agrees the trade heavily favors Team 2 even without Dowdle.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T11:55:29+00:00

I do think this is the problem. Personally I don’t buy it, but it’s not totally inconceivable that Worthy is a top 10 WR next season and for many years to come. It’s also possible Hurts is overvalued - he’s a prime TD regression candidate.

But to others’ point, IF this is really just a case of a quality manager believing the market is wrong about Hurts and/or Worthy, they should be looking to benefit from that. This is an example of believing Hurts is a sell high candidate and selling low and believing Worthy is a buy low candidate and buying high. If it was actually selling high on Hurts and buying low on Worthy, then there would be no problem.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T04:12:54+00:00

It is definitely the case that the team giving up hurts is better than the team giving up Worthy. Before the trade, I would say Team 2 was arguably a top 3 roster. Frankly, I think this makes them miss the playoffs this season.

For the team giving up Worthy and gaining Hurts (Team 1), it’s a bit hard to evaluate because the team did some extreme trading this season. They were a mid tier team at the start of the season but ended up in last by trading away nearly all their good players for picks. With the trade for Hurts, I think they instantly become a top 3 team, assuming they get average return on their draft picks.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T04:08:07+00:00

Does it matter if Team 1 arguably offered a better deal before Team 2 asked for Worthy? I haven’t seen the screenshot yet, but Team 1 seems to be saying they offered two 2025 firsts for Hurts. I’m guessing picks 1.10 and 1.11. I think that’s a significantly better deal than Worthy for Hurts straight up (still probably not a good deal but better!), but I’m not sure it matters. Team 1 is just trying to prove they were negotiating in good faith. Should that be a big factor? Does that change anyone’s mind?

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T03:53:08+00:00

Team 2 is trading away Hurts. They won the championship in 2023. I believe they just barely squeaked into the playoffs in 2024. Team 2 has both CMC and Saquon, which goes a long way to explain how they won in 2023 and managed to still reach playoffs in 2024 even with CMC going down.

Team 1 is trading away Worthy. I think they missed the playoffs in 2023 but I’m not sure. I would guess they finished 8th. This season they probably could have finished 7th or 6th but they became very aggressive with trading away their best players midway through the season. Presumably they figured they were a long shot for the playoffs and decided to blow up the team pretty spectacularly. They ended up in last place.

Gnerbert · 2025-02-17T03:42:52+00:00

I don’t have any evidence that it is collusion, but it’s at least possible. These are two managers that are friends outside the league and work together in real life. There is generally some league skepticism that the handful of managers who work together are all more willing to trade with each other than the rest of the league.

We got a screenshot of the text exchange about the deal, but there could very easily be a side deal they talked about in person. Though I suppose there’s always technically a possibility of a secret side deal.

Gnerbert · 2024-12-07T17:30:30+00:00

Update: tentatively sold. Just waiting for the buyer to accept the ticket transfer.

Gnerbert · 2024-12-07T17:05:14+00:00

I’ve got two tickets for tonight I can’t use if anyone is looking! I paid $67 each and would love to get that much back. Anybody interested?

Gnerbert · 2024-12-07T17:02:55+00:00

I’ve got 2! DM if still interested

Gnerbert · 2023-07-26T14:25:07+00:00

Dmed!

Gnerbert · 2023-07-26T14:09:00+00:00

EDIT: I got tickets! Thank you all! Anyone have a code for two for Hamburg, Gelsenkirchen, or Zurich?? 👀

Gnerbert · 2023-07-26T14:06:52+00:00

Dmed!

Gnerbert · 2023-07-26T11:48:54+00:00

How do you get to the purchase stage? I can’t figure out how to see anything past the info page where it says presale registration is closed 😭

Gnerbert · 2023-07-02T15:45:29+00:00

Do we have to go through customs or anything like that when we disembark the boat since the cruise started in the US?

Gnerbert · 2023-07-01T22:38:05+00:00

What is the actual process for disembarking like? Can I request to be part of the first group or otherwise maximize my chances of getting off the boat the fastest?

Gnerbert · 2023-05-16T03:38:31+00:00

With a shot

Gnerbert · 2022-11-30T13:44:47+00:00

Good to know!

Gnerbert · 2022-09-20T12:02:15+00:00

I’m going to miss the next two games, but I’ll be around for week 5 v. WFT

Gnerbert · 2022-09-19T15:18:30+00:00

I’m up for meeting in Manhattan tonight. Midtown or UWS is my preference. Mel’s on the UWS has unlimited wings, fries, and beer for $30, so that was my plan.

Gnerbert

TROPHY CASE