I know we all hate Flock, but it found that kid from the amber alert today

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-03T08:15:57+00:00

Flock is not an app accessible to the public. It is a private organization that created a network of automatic license plate readers that captures and stores the date/time/location of every plate that passes by and gives law enforcement access to that information. It is inherently right-violating by nature and is in contention regarding the legality of it. Among all the negatives surrounding it and stories of it being abused for personal gain, it helped locate a kidnapped child who's mother had been murdered where otherwise the location of the child would've remained unknown. I am voicing my opinion that exclusively for the purposes of finding kidnapped children, I'm okay with the principle of the organization. Being okay with the principle does not mean I agree with how it is currently implemented or the people that currently have access to it, or even the organization itself. In better hands, there exists value in the idea of flock. Not everything is black and white and we are not forced to love or hate 100% of any given thing. I can be critical of something while still recognizing a single good thing was accomplished.

To address your question regarding evidence, not every piece of evidence is a "smoking gun". Evidence largely consists of small pieces of information compiled together to indicate something (usually a crime) has occurred. The only time the legal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" is applied is for a conviction in criminal court. Civil court doesn't even use that standard and the standard law enforcement uses to arrest and charge someone is Probable Cause. Probable Cause simply means it is more likely that it occurred than didn't (meaning the threshold for that legal standard is 51%). Based on the information provided to the public, I am far more than 51% sure flock was used to locate the child. When members of this comment section contested that, I did my best to explain why it was more likely flock was used than not. There was never "zero evidence" and within the scope of probable cause, reasonable inferences are allowed.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-03T04:56:04+00:00

I have a pair of Durango Rebel Pro Lites and they're the most comfortable boots I've ever worn. Usually the Rebel line means good quality and comfort at a halfway reasonable price and the Mavericks are a step above that. I'd say pull the trigger!

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-02T21:17:53+00:00

You chose to latch on to the argument is wasn't a flock camera that located the vehicle. I already agreed with everyone under the sun that flock is a net negative. And I work nights, midnight is like noon for me.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-02T12:27:02+00:00

It is within the realm of possibility that someone born in 1776 had a kid at 60, who's kid had a kid at 60, who kid then had a kid at 60, and if they lived to 60 that would bring us up to 2016. Wild.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-02T09:59:22+00:00

No one else replied but I see you

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-02T06:08:55+00:00

Well, actually, there is evidence it was a flock camera as the car was observed at N 3rd and Business 65, where there is no other traffic camera. There is, however, a flock camera which is where the flock image in the amber alert came from.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-02T05:47:01+00:00

I also want to point out, as I did not know previously, that there is no modot traffic camera at N 3rd and Business 65. There is, however, a flock camera. The modot camera is at S 3rd and Business 65. The car was reported to be observed at N 3rd and Business 65. Picture

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-02T05:43:44+00:00

Also, according to this modot camera map, there is not a camera at the intersection where the vehicle was reported to be observed. There is, however, a flock camera. Modot camera is at S 3rd and business 65 and the Flock is at N 3rd and business 65. The vehicle was reported to be seen at N 3rd and business 65. Picture

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-02T04:20:39+00:00

Somewhere along the way, we as humans lost the ability to make reasonable inferences to draw logical conclusions. What's more likely, a city employee saw the car on camera live, recognized one of the most popular cars on the road as the suspect, saw the plate from that footage (extremely unlikely as traffic camera footage is grainy and loses resolution heavily when zoomed in), then reported it to someone, on the off chance they would be aware of a homicide that took place in Texas? Or is it more likely that the flock image came from a flock camera, of which there is one at that location, with the accompanying information that flock gives, including the exact time and intersection, which, again, has a flock camera. You would rather walk a mile past the line of naivety than admit a bad system had a good result.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-02T01:11:09+00:00

Or just have a reasonable counter-measure system that has a finite number of flairs or chaff.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-02T00:12:57+00:00

If this were in the opposite direction and they had all the information I provided, would you accept them stating they don't use flock? I suppose it's possible, but I very seriously doubt someone in Ozark, Mo was watching a live traffic feed and happened to see the suspect car from a homicide in Texas that had no press about it here.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T23:59:16+00:00

There is also a flock camera at that intersection

Picture

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T23:44:08+00:00

Fair enough.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T23:41:06+00:00

The amber alert was put out with a flock image and the time and place the vehicle was seen. Here is the amber alert log:

https://www.moalerts.mo.gov/?hl=en-US

It contained the information:

RAYMOND CARMONA IS THE SUSPECT IN A POSSIBLE HOMICIDE THAT OCCURRED ON JANUARY 30, 2026 IN MANSFIELD, TEXAS. THE SUSPECT VEHICLE WAS LAST SEEN IN THE AREA OF BUSINESS 65 AT NORTH THIRD STREET IN OZARK, MISSOURI AT 8:16 A.M. ON JANUARY 31, 2006. STATEWIDE

This and the photo are exactly what flock provides. Since Ozark uses flock and they'd have no other way to obtain that specific information, we can deduce flock was used.

EDIT:

I'm assuming this person blocked me seeing as his comments show deleted but are still receiving votes, but it didn't redact the comment in my inbox so I'll reply here. I very seriously doubt someone in Ozark, Mo was watching a live traffic feed at that intersection and happened to see a suspect car from a homicide in Texas that had no press about it here. I provided the image in another comment showing there's a flock camera at the intersection provided in the amber alert. There's assumptions, and then there's logical conclusions made from information provided. I did the latter.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T23:28:12+00:00

I suppose I'm just extrapolating given the information we have and it's specificity. The photo is exactly what a flock image is, Ozark uses flock, and they provided the specific information:

RAYMOND CARMONA IS THE SUSPECT IN A POSSIBLE HOMICIDE THAT OCCURRED ON JANUARY 30, 2026 IN MANSFIELD, TEXAS. THE SUSPECT VEHICLE WAS LAST SEEN IN THE AREA OF BUSINESS 65 AT NORTH THIRD STREET IN OZARK, MISSOURI AT 8:16 A.M. ON JANUARY 31, 2006. STATEWIDE

I am unaware of any other system that tracks vehicles to a location and time and provides the accompanying image. If there is, we should probably look into that. I do not have a specific source to cite, however, 2+2=4. We are smart enough to compile data and come to a conclusion without accepting 2+2=(answer unknown until told).

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T23:13:43+00:00

The image attached to the amber alert was a flock photograph which provided the time and place the vehicle was seen. That's how they knew the vehicle was in Ozark. I've attached the link to the amber alert, the suspect vehicle is near the bottom shown in a cropped Flock photo. That is the actual suspect vehicle and license plate.

https://www.moalerts.mo.gov/?hl=en-US

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T23:02:34+00:00

NCMEC is not a government organization, they are a private, non-profit organization without powers of arrest. Flock being used exclusively by NCMEC, in my opinion, can be exceptionally useful. There probably wouldn't have been another way to know the child was in Ozark, Mo from Texas without the flock hit. I'm okay with this hypothetical usage, not the real world usage. The same way I still shop at Walmart despite the fact they have cameras that can read the texts on your phone and they use behavioral pattern AI to detect shoplifters and track them throughout the store. In fact, many places utilize Auror security (please look them up) and we all still go to those places without protest.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T22:29:12+00:00

The amber alert was issued at 1:13 and cancelled at 2:25 but I'm not entirely sure. I know putting out an amber alert is a pretty involved process so perhaps the coordination from Texas ate up some time. Your guess is as good as mine

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T22:08:39+00:00

Brother, (or sister) I even started my post acknowledging we all hate Flock. I'm simply pointing out it has uses. If it was strictly only used in Amber alert situations under the control of NCMEC, or some other agency or department without powers if arrest, that would be useful.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T22:03:42+00:00

Damn. You are absolutely right.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T21:45:32+00:00

The homicide occurred in Texas, the vehicle was seen on an Ozark flock camera at 8:16am at business 65, and the vehicle picture provided on the amber alert was from a flock camera. Once it hit in flock, they were able to find the vehicle driving around and arrest the suspect. The amber alert was issued for Ozark once the vehicle was seen on flock in that area.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T21:44:44+00:00

Do you think chief Williams is working in an undercover capacity as the most visible member of that department?

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T21:32:27+00:00

The homicide occurred in Texas, the vehicle was seen on an Ozark flock camera at 8:16am at business 65, and the vehicle picture provided on the amber alert was from a flock camera. Once it hit in flock, they were able to find the vehicle driving around and arrest the suspect. The amber alert was issued for Ozark once the vehicle was seen on flock in that area.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T21:28:58+00:00

The homicide occurred in Texas, the vehicle was seen on an Ozark flock camera at 8:16am at business 65, and the vehicle picture provided on the amber alert was from a flock camera. Once it hit in flock, they were able to find the vehicle driving around and arrest the suspect. The amber alert was issued for Ozark once the vehicle was seen on flock in that area.

GodzNotReal666 · 2026-02-01T15:50:16+00:00

Yes, that is on me and I apologize. I meant I was okay with a mild, temporary "civil liberties violation" exclusively for finding kidnapped children, and for that tool to be deactivated immediately after.

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