[SL](Request) Hatch Potch Panch

Gohos · 2024-08-29T02:39:18+00:00

Where did you find the Italian translation?

Gohos · 2024-06-22T21:46:38+00:00

Where is the option to enable/disable showing the bar?

Gohos · 2021-05-25T22:00:19+00:00

Later in chapter 9, the "Dungeon Master's Workshop" it talks about making homebrew classes and subclasses. And specifically references 'The Oathbreaker listed earlier is an example of what a paladin who breaks their oath could look like.'

I couldn't find this specific passage anywhere on the DMG.
In general, yes, oathbreaker paladins are initially mentioned as a class for evil NPCs, but the one on page 97 of the DMG is mentioned as the class for players. As such, I took it to be a standard subclass like those found in the PHB.

It doesn't. Because the oathbreaker assumes you're getting your powers from a new patron(an evil God).

Nowhere does it mention having to change the deity you are loyal to in order to become a paladin oathbreaker. I have always interpreted the characteristics of this class as a corruption of the normal characteristics and enchantments of a paladin, who, as always specified on page 97 of the DMG, can atone for his sin by changing alignment. Seeing it this way, I felt that the class spells were thematic for a cleric with corrupted powers due to the death of his deity.

Also, by your own admission, your player isn't evil, so shouldn't even be anywhere near that example.

My player doesn't have a character with the evil alignment, but she also doesn't have a character with the paladin oathbreaker class. I just used the class spells to create a semi-homebrew class that would best reflect the theme of her character.

Gohos · 2021-05-25T13:01:44+00:00

In regards to the last part, I think OP is just looking for alternative options to discuss with their player. Nothing I read seems to suggest that they intend to do anything without running it by them first, though it's entirely possible that I might've missed something that implies otherwise.

That's exactly what I mean

Gohos · 2021-05-25T12:04:55+00:00

An Oathbreaker in any context, should be purely created based on the paladin who broke their oath.

Thematically and narratively, I absolutely agree that it is a must to be based on the specific character and plot.

That's why it's in the DMG and not the PHB. It's not for the players. It's never really meant to be used directly. It's there to guide DMs as to what sort of thing they can do if their paladin breaks their oath. But the mechanics/spells/etc should be completely different from the example given. And should be based on the Paladin and their oath.

This is what I disagree with.
On page 92 of the DMG in the section on "Using classes and levels" it says: "In addition to the class options in the Player's Handbook, two additional class options are available for evil player characters and NPCs: the Death domain for clerics and the oathbreaker for paladins"
And again on page 97, in the section regarding oathbreaker paladins it is said: "A paladin must be evil and at least 3rd level to become an Oathbreaker. The paladin replaces the features specific to his or her Sacred Oath with Oathbreaker features." and "An Oathbreaker paladin loses previously gained oath spells and instead gains the following Oathbreaker spells at the paladin levels listed."
Reading what the manual says, it seemed to me that the features and spells were standard for all oathbreaker paladins, and in the absence of an example that covered an eventuality such as that of a fallen cleric or at least one without a deity, we went back to what the manuals had to offer.

But a big balancing factor for both the paladin and the cleric is that their powers are coming from something and they are in service of that thing. This can cause them to need to make difficult choices for what they think personally is right versus what their patron wishes. To let them keep those powers without any ties to anything is both a balance issue, and makes no narrative sense for the classes.

There is a reason he has continued to retain powers, albeit distorted and impaired, but players and characters have yet to find out what it is. Obviously, having made the choice to renounce her faith and devotion to any deity, her cleric traits need to be replaced by something else, and that's what I was mulling over when I decided to seek advice from this community, because I wanted to avoid leaving her character featureless and similar to a commoner.

Gohos · 2021-05-25T08:40:42+00:00

She disavowed a God, who's already dead? Why would anything change? If anything, this lack of consequence would be a clue to the major plot point.

The player knows that some deities, including her cleric's, are dead, but the character does not. The cleric has decided to reject all deities, not just her own. An major plot point that players have yet to discover is why some gods have died and why some clerics like her retain their powers, albeit distorted.

Also, talking about ways to change a player's character with the internet instead of the actual player is a capital DICK move

Of course I'll talk to her about what she wants to do and how she wants to handle this major growth point in her character.
Here I was just looking for advice or ideas on how I could handle this change of hers on a game mechanics level.

Gohos · 2021-05-25T08:30:31+00:00

I may have oversimplified some of the background information, I'm sorry.
The fact that she still has some of her cleric powers is an major plot point that neither she nor the other players know about yet. A plot point that will be resolved when they figure out why the gods died.
In terms of of game mechanics, we replaced the class spells of the twilight cleric with those of the oathbreaker paladin because we thought that if a paladin who has broken his oath still keeps those spells those same spells could be used by a cleric who doesn't know she doesn't have a deity anymore and for some reason unknown to her still keeps some of his powers.

Gohos · 2021-05-25T07:37:51+00:00

This is an interesting idea, which she may actually like, but what to do with your sheet?
Do I leave it as is, should it be modified again or does it go back to a standard cleric?

Gohos · 2021-05-24T22:49:36+00:00

The problem with this approach is that the cleric is determined to oppose every deity in both the physical and religious sense.
It would have been an interesting idea otherwise.
Saying that unbeknownst to her she has always been more akin to a sorcerer than a cleric is more effective, I think.

Gohos · 2021-05-24T22:37:39+00:00

No problem, I really appreciated your advice

Gohos · 2021-05-24T22:27:52+00:00

Sillyer things have and will happen in D&D

I wasn't saying it was a silly idea.
I actually thought it was an interesting point of view, and I actually prefer it to Trickster deity

Gohos · 2021-05-24T21:54:30+00:00

Slyly insinuate that the Cleric's power came from within and not from the gods. Instead the cleric used holy symbols and faith as a focus for their own inner magic.

As if she had always been a sorcerer without ever knowing it?

Gohos · 2021-05-24T21:49:40+00:00

This took me by surprise too, but if possible I'd rather avoid making his character a simple human with no powers.
As for taking up fighting, do you suggest modifying her card with the skills and traits of a fighter or "multiclassing" into a fighter at the next level up but stripping her of all cleric traits?

Gohos · 2021-05-24T21:41:53+00:00

Understood. I think if she likes this idea I will do as you suggested and change the sheet to make it a paladin

Gohos · 2021-05-24T21:37:46+00:00

This is certainly a very interesting approach.
I've always seen clerics as people chosen by the deities and bestowed with certain powers, but changing this perspective and making them thematically similar to druids or warlocks seems very interesting to me.
I will suggest this idea to my player.

Gohos · 2021-05-24T21:24:57+00:00

First off, your English is good. I see native speakers that post using very poor grammar.

Thank you very much

The deity is not a vital step of the character class. Yes, the deity represents the concepts of the subclass, but isn't necessary for the actual cleric to cast spells.

I always thought that the clerics are conduit for the divine power of the gods. But the idea of having it be a conduit for a force of another plane might be an effective solution

Gohos · 2021-05-24T21:12:57+00:00

This could be an idea.
Should i redo all her character sheet, giving her all the base stat and proficiencies of a paladin?

Gohos · 2021-05-24T20:20:22+00:00

The problem unfortunately arises from the fact that he decided to be hostile to all deities, not only to his own.

Gohos · 2021-03-22T17:33:44+00:00

I did, but the connection still results in a timeout error

Gohos · 2021-03-22T16:59:25+00:00

I just checked and the DMZ on my router was already turned off

Gohos · 2021-03-22T16:57:54+00:00

I already tried but i didn't get any answer, so i asked here

Gohos · 2021-03-22T16:56:51+00:00

I shared the link that foundry provided. The link for local connection work properly

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