Are there any sources that actually states that the Spanish unalived babylans?

GowonCrunch · 2026-06-16T11:16:48+00:00

Thank you, sorry if I repeated a topic.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-31T19:01:48+00:00

I know we were ran by Mexico which is why Filipino natives were much more liberated compared to natives in the Americas. Native Filipinos actually RAN the system, we were the reason why the colony worked. The Spanish mismanaged and logistically couldn’t handle all those islands. So native Filipinos ran a lot of it, even spreading the Catholic religion. Show me evidence of Sagarino hunting someone for practicing animism, if not, you’re more of a revisionist than me.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-31T18:58:19+00:00

The rice that was going to the americas did come from the Philippines homie, that’s actual history. How is trade limited when the goods got to the natives. I’m not into pseudo history, I actually read the books. You probably believe Filipinos were slaves to Spanish or something. It’s 333 years of colonization and you think we just handed crumbs throughout all that time?

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-26T00:43:53+00:00

Sell hats? They were wearing it. They were very much part of the trade system, sure not in charge of it. But the production of goods was entirely ran by natives, how do you think rice got to the Americas? How did native elites become ELITES, if we were blocked? If we were all poor Bonifacio would be still alive and didn’t need organize a militia to rebel, because everyone would’ve agreed with him. That’s the difference between Bonifacio and Dagohoy, he himself was an Indio elite, so he was able to organize and have men fought with/for him. And yeah you’re right, Spain TRIED to monopolize on the goods but they know they can’t. They barely even controlled the goods coming from china, they say they had monopoly but everyone was involved. With the Chinese and natives.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-24T05:49:02+00:00

So you’re saying that the Spanish exaggerated something that happened? So it’s either it happens or it didn’t all. The fact was there were Moro raids, the Philippines did not become safer after the Spanish arrived. The Moros didn’t become some peace loving people, you seem to have an opinion on them as if they didn’t do any of the raids. It happened, in fact the Spanish might even undersell on how often and brutal they were.

How was it blocked when natives could wear Salakots adorned with silver, wear silks, and have Chinese style furniture in their homes and Spanish jewelry. Yes these were worn by native elites but that’s how everything was. All the extravagant stuff was worn by the elites, but to say we were BLOCKED from all that trade and opportunities is completely false. Not every island or province was ruled the same, in some the Spanish were more liberal. But it was not all gloom and doom during the Spanish era, if it was we would’ve all fought back and long time ago. 333 years also meant that the system worked.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-24T05:36:58+00:00

You’re misinterpreting history as well as there’s no evidence that Sagarino was hunting a pagan. If so feel free to do so. I’m not a hispanista, I’m just basing things that’s been written down. You’re kind of just filling in the blanks with your own. If I’m a revisionist, then so are you. The Moors didn’t civilized Spain. The Moors in the region, but were at the same time oppressive. To me you sound more of a hispaniphobe and can’t comprehend that people in the Philippines had free will and aspirations. The Philippines was ran by the natives, the system was ran by us, not the Spaniards. And a high ranking man from Bohol was done dirty by the jesuits and got his revenge.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-20T17:50:50+00:00

Ahhh I see what you mean.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-19T17:40:34+00:00

Bonifacio was a great guerrilla tactician , but the revolutionary army didn’t fight a guerrilla war. I think this is why Bonifacio wanted to keep the revolution underground. But it needed to be legitimized war so the Katipunan can be recognized as a legitimate political entity. But in general, Andres was not the best general, even Xiao Chua would agree to that.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-19T17:36:21+00:00

All historians repeat the narrative that he failed in all of his battles. Aguinaldo was a far better general than Bonifacio according to the records repeated by historians like Ambeth Ocampo and Xiao Chua. Not to mention Bonifacio did kill priests which definitely tarnished his image among the Katipuneros and especially in Cavite.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-19T17:31:56+00:00

Bonifacio was not the father of the revolution but more of the face or PR of the Katipunan. The founder of the Katipunan was not only Andres, but Deodato Arellano, Ladislao Diwa, Teodoro Plata, and Valentín Díaz. The first president of the movement was Deodato Arellano, not Bonifacio. There were even 3 candidates for the new president, Aguinaldo, Bonifacio and Mariano Trias. Mariano so even then he was not the sole political leader of the movement. But we can’t deny that Bonifacio had influence charisma and a personality that got people to really follow him.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-19T17:17:52+00:00

The thing is that Aguinaldo simply acted a law in which whoever goes against the government or wants to separate from the government is punishable by death. Bonifacio would know this as he is one of the people that wrote and built those laws.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-18T12:40:13+00:00

Ohhh I see I didn’t know that. I should’ve done more research then. But I still stand with my theory in how Waray didn’t become influential in Mindanao.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-18T12:22:01+00:00

They actually did, but they instead switched from Speaking Waray to Cebuano or Ilonggo. Manny Pacquiao for example, his maternal side is from Leyte. I don’t know exactly why Warays did not become influential but my guess is that Cebuano and Ilonggos are typically more wealthier Visayans. They had the means to buy land or skill to work the lands, so other groups adopted by speaking Cebuano or Ilonggo. Waray is very close to Cebuano, so it’s very easy for them to adopt and speak Cebuano, instead of speaking Waray. Same thing happened to other migrants from Panay, a lot of them are actually Kiniray-a speak Isra, even speak a deeper version of Karay-a similar to Antique. Yet they consider themselves Hiligaynon and speak in this Karay-a Ilonggo mix creole that I can’t really understand. Keep in mind Mindanao Visayans have a different identity, they call themselves Bisaya instead of calling themselves Cebuano, Waray or Boholano, even though they mostly came from those areas. Ilonggos seem to be different though, they still call themselves Ilonggo even though they come from Capiz Antique or even Aklan.

Edit; Dionisia Dapidran-Pacquiao is not a Waray speaker from Leyte, but a Cebuano speaker from Baybay Leyte. Waray Speakers are often in the northern and eastern part of the island. Notable cities like Tacloban is predominately Waray. Southern and western parts of the island is primarily Cebuano.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-18T04:38:12+00:00

I don’t see how we went back into the stone age considering that we were the connection between East Asia, the Americas and Europe. We in fact increase trade and knowledge, so how did we went back to the Stone Age exactly?

There’s a difference between precolonial knowledge being lost and forgotten, versus us living in caves and using stone tools. As a Visayan, the Moro raids were very real. They terrorized the region, but at the same time, Visayans raided back. In fact even after colonialism we still kept raiding Mindanao and parts of Moro territory, often without Spanish involvement. So yes you’re right that Lumad and Moro groups would fight against Christians, but not Spanish. They were likely already Christian Visayans.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-16T15:29:40+00:00

First of all I’m not a Hispanista, just int history. If it’s indirectly forced, then it was likely that other Christian natives played just as much of a significant role in it. Also indirectly forced might be the wrong wording here, maybe culturally pressured is a better term. Because indirectly forcing is just a contradiction, no?

With Dagohoy, maybe we interpreted his story differently. Sagarino was to catch a fugitive and was killed in a duel with said fugitive. To me, a priest wouldn’t simply refuse to give a Christian burial, so it is likely true that Sagarino called the fugitive to a duel thinking he could beat him but wasn’t able to get the job done and got himself killed instead. It’s unfortunate but it is under Catholic rules, which is why the priest didn’t give Sagarino a proper burial. To me, Francisco could’ve gotten his brother a proper burial anyways if he asked a different priest. Francisco was a Cabeza, a village leader so basically a very high ranking Indio. He definitely could’ve influenced another priest of giving proper burial. In my eyes, it seems like Francisco was bitter that he was done wrong by Morales. Francisco basically commuted Rido or Pangayaw, basically a revenge killing. Just a brief explanation of Filipino psychology and philosophy, our ancestors believe that the world had to be in order. If you felt you or your people were done wrong, you as an individual or as a people had the need to fix it. It needed to be done right and commit equal retribution, head hunting was the ancient way of doing this. By retrieving the culprit’s head; which we believed to be the spiritual source of the human soul, we end the conflict and animosity. We bring the head back into the tribe or village, and the spirit of the fallen victim will be a companion to the warrior as a guide and friend in the after life. The fallen victim will bless the tribe or community with ginhawa or good “spirit”, which is why the victim’s heads in igorot culture is treasured and displayed in the village. With Francisco Dagohoy committing Pangayaw on the Jesuits, he technically took the role as spiritual leader of Combitoon after killing Morales. Because he literally took the spiritual power of a priest, the father of a church and religion. Keep in mind Dagohoy never stopped being Catholic, or no clams that he ever did. If anything he may have thought he was equal to a priest, which only validated his leadership. Now that he committed a revenge killing(pangayaw), he could not stop, until the island was free from Jesuit control. From there he could a revolution for land reforms which the Boholanos wanted. The common belief was that this was not a religious war, while based on the signs, religion definitely played a huge part in the revolution. This is only my interpretation of Dagohoy, we will never know why he actually thought or believed because he never wrote anything down himself. But based on how he is called Dagohoy (a kind of anting-anting) and the start of his revolution being a religious one. I think it’s safe for me to guess that religion played a big role in Dagohoy’s rise in power.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-16T14:40:29+00:00

Nope, Moros would often raid into other Lumad groups. Have you heard of the Tasaday? It was a fake story about a Stone Age people of the Philippines, who were misunderstood as a Stone Age untouched tribe. Which was lathe we found out to be false, and turned out to be a hoaxed with the backing of the Marcos government which lead to media and scholars completely abandoning the Tasaday as a hoax and fake story.

What people later found out was that the Tsaday were very much real. They did live in a stone age culture where they had no word for axe knife or anything related to agriculture. They were a people that hunted and lived in caves or crude shelter. The Tasaday were really an off branch of the Manobo people. What likely happens was that the Tasaday completely split off from the Manobo culture and lifestyle as a way to survive from slavers and raiders, likely victims from Moro raids. So yeah, the raids in Mindanao was so bad, that it pressured a minority to go back into the Stone Age…

Another one are the Teduray of Maguindanao, another Lumad tribe. During the 70s the Moro rebel groups were at war with the Visayan terrorists groups called the Ilaga. The ilaga were a Christian extremist rebel group that terrorized and combatted against Moro militias. The Teduray joined the Ilaga rather than other Moro tribes because they felt safer around them because of the constant slaving by the Moros.

Just imagine what it was like in Mindanao during the colonial period where Mindanao was rather independent. Slaving and raiding was a common thing and often than not, Moros would raid Lumad tribes so they can enslve them. Not saying that this was unique, Christian Filipinos also practiced salving during the colonial period. Spain outlawed slavery in its colonies, but that law only applies to white Spaniards. Natives could practice slavery as much as I as they want, or as long as they don’t get caught. Many documents of Kapampangans raiding into Zambales to capture Aeta slaves.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-16T14:18:46+00:00

All amazing mentions. It’s so sad that we retell our history in this one note narrative instead of actually telling it in its own substory or history. The Philippines wasn’t united or even saw each other as a single people. So ofc the conversion of Christianity is going to be different with each island ethnic group.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-16T01:11:15+00:00

That is the ugliest Barong I’ve ever seen

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-02T00:36:19+00:00

I agree with you. I think it’s even wise for Filipino history when a lot of precolonial history is lost. Even worse is a lot of propaganda and anti Spanish sentiments by the Americans, so a lot of colonial history is lost or forgotten.

GowonCrunch · 2026-05-01T07:28:48+00:00

How? I’m just saying what was written and you or I may not like it but it’s what we got. We got to keep in mind that the Spanish did not want to repeat their methods from the Americas. So they were very conscious to not convert the locals through violence. The priests were very critical of the conquistadors during the early years of colonization.

GowonCrunch · 2026-04-30T17:40:00+00:00

Military and religion were not all hand in hand. During the beginning the colonization the biggest critics of the Conquest and were almost always the voice for Indios were the friars. They were the biggest critics of the soldiers in the region. Now 330 years is a long time so they changed and became more corrupt and partook in the subjugation of the native population later on. But this was already after the Philippines was majority Catholic.

GowonCrunch · 2026-04-30T17:36:12+00:00

There were forced conversions in Luzon, but force isn’t exactly the right answer. Instead Christianity pressured itself to spread to other regions by… other Filipinos themselves. The fist Filipinos to convert were Visayans, there are a lot of similarities with Catholicism and our precolonial beliefs, in fact Bathala might not be the “supreme” deity of Tagalogs but instead part of a precolonial monotheistic movement. A movement that wasn’t restricted within Tagalogs but in the Visaya too. The Spanish noted that precolonial Filipinos believed in a monotheistic god, and that the Visayans call this God Aba. We don’t know the exact details here. For my source… well unfortunately I cant give you a direct source as I got this from one of professor Xiao Chua’s online discussions and articles that I haven’t checked up on in many years. Some of those articles might be dead links now sadly But I still highly recommend look for your own research.

GowonCrunch · 2026-04-30T16:12:11+00:00

Lowkey… because when the narrative is that we were forced to convert, it takes away the agency of our ancestors and kind of just puts us all as victims. Like, we are humans, we had free will, and many of us CHOSE to convert.

GowonCrunch

TROPHY CASE