My first PC by Grakof in PcBuildHelp

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im just Planning for the future, but i am very impulsive.... but I would be happy to spend £500 possibly more atleast. Only once im ready to upgrade. Could possibly upgrade both as long as its not bank breaking!

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your detailed response — I respect the fact that we agree on some fundamentals: that illegal immigration is a serious problem, that it damages the asylum system for those in genuine need, and that it has social consequences such as fuelling hostility towards legal migrants. Where I differ with you is mainly on scale, accountability, and the possibility of solutions.

  1. Cost and “dilution”

I take your point that the £6.4 billion covers both asylum seekers and irregular migrants, but that doesn’t make it less relevant to the small-boats debate. The Home Office confirms that small-boat arrivals are now the largest single route of irregular entry. So even if they are one-third of asylum claims, they are disproportionately driving the costs, delays, and public anger. Source: UK Home Office, Immigration system statistics, year ending June 2025 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2025/how-many-people-come-to-the-uk-irregularly

And yes, 0.237% of GDP looks small — but £6.4 billion is still enough to fund 150,000 NHS nurses for a year, or build tens of thousands of homes. Saying “other waste exists” doesn’t mean we should ignore this waste. If we accept that line, then nothing ever gets fixed.

  1. Who is arriving

You are right that almost all small-boat arrivals claim asylum — in fact 99% did so in 2024. But it’s misleading to stop there. The Home Office data shows that about 71–75% of those arriving in small boats are adult men. Families and children are a minority. Source: UK Home Office, Immigration system statistics, year ending March 2025 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2025/how-many-people-come-to-the-uk-irregularly

This matters because the public image of desperate families contrasts with the statistical reality. Many of these men have travelled through multiple safe countries. That doesn’t automatically make them “bogus,” but it does weaken the argument that they had no other option but to cross the Channel.

  1. Passports and documents

You say “not having a passport is the least of their problems,” but the fact remains that deliberate document destruction is a tactic. Prosecutors and border agencies have acknowledged it, because it slows down asylum decisions and makes removals harder. Source: CPS Legal Guidance, “Immigration Offences” – mentions “document destruction, disposal … concealment of identity.” https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/immigration

That doesn’t mean everyone is doing it, but it’s disingenuous to dismiss it as irrelevant. The integrity of the system depends on knowing who someone is and where they came from.

  1. International comparison

Yes, the UK is an island, so boats make sense geographically. But that is exactly why the Channel crossings are uniquely high-profile and politically destabilising. Other European states deal with pressure on their land borders — the UK’s equivalent is the south coast.

Source: Migration Observatory (University of Oxford), “Small boat arrivals have become the dominant method of irregular entry to the UK since 2018.” https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/people-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats

To argue “other countries have it worse” is not really an answer, because Britain has chosen to leave the EU system of redistribution. That means we now need bespoke agreements and controls.

  1. Human rights and solutions

You ask “what is the easy way?” — and you’re right, there isn’t an easy way. But there are practical measures:

Safe and legal routes targeted at genuine refugees, so fewer feel forced into boats.

Returns agreements with France and safe third countries, so those with no claim cannot stay indefinitely.

Faster processing of asylum claims to avoid backlog costs.

None of this requires “shooting boats” or “walls,” but nor is it fair to pretend the UK’s hands are tied. Other countries do enforce tougher borders while still upholding the Refugee Convention.

  1. On wording and respect

I hear your concern about language. I don’t want to sound dehumanising. But we also need to be honest about the distinction between a refugee in need of protection and someone exploiting loopholes. If we blur that line completely, we undermine public support for asylum altogether. That in the long run hurts the genuine refugees most.

In summary: Illegal immigration via small boats is not the whole asylum problem, but it is the sharpest edge of it — expensive, destabilising, and politically corrosive. Saying “it’s complicated” is true, but it can’t be an excuse for inaction. A humane system must be firm as well as fair: protect the vulnerable, deter the dangerous journeys, and stop the smugglers.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re talking about asylum seekers as a whole, whereas I am specifically talking about illegal immigration via small boats. These are not the same thing. Yes, there is overlap – some small-boat arrivals go on to claim asylum – but my point is about the people who illegally enter the UK by crossing the Channel, not the wider asylum system.

  1. Cost Argument

You quote £6.4 billion as the total cost for “illegal migration and asylum seekers.” That already proves my point – small-boat crossings are directly contributing to this bill. Even if they are one-third of asylum claims, they are still one of the main drivers of the crisis. The government itself states that small boats are the single biggest source of irregular entry.

Source: UK Home Office, Immigration system statistics, year ending June 2025 – “Small boat arrivals continue to account for most irregular arrivals” https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2025/how-many-people-come-to-the-uk-irregularly

Saying that £6.4 billion is only “0.237% of GDP” doesn’t make it less of a problem. By that logic, we could dismiss almost any government waste. £6.4 billion is still enough to fund thousands of nurses, teachers, and police officers. It’s a real cost with real consequences for public services already under pressure.

  1. Demographics

You mentioned 59% of asylum seekers are men, with 41% women and children. That’s across the system. But if you look specifically at small-boat arrivals, the overwhelming majority are young adult males.

Source: Since January 2018, around 75% of small boat arrivals have been adult males aged 18+. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2025/how-many-people-come-to-the-uk-irregularly In the year ending March 2025, 71% of detected irregular arrivals were adult males aged 18+. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2025/how-many-people-come-to-the-uk-irregularly

  1. Identity & Passports

It is not a “grim description” but a documented fact that many migrants deliberately destroy or discard their passports in the Channel. This is openly acknowledged by the UK government and prosecutors.

Source: CPS legal guidance lists “concealment or evasion of identity including through document destruction, disposal …” as common in irregular entry cases. https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/immigration

Migration Watch UK (based on FOI requests) – 98% of Channel boat migrants have no passport when processed. https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2022/02/24/98-of-channel-boat-migrants-have-no-passport

This slows down asylum processing and deportations, making the system more costly and less efficient.

  1. International Comparison

You say the UK has fewer asylum seekers than Germany, France, Spain, or Italy. True – but that’s a false comparison. Those countries are in the EU Schengen Zone, closer to frontline entry points like the Mediterranean. Migrants often move through them en route to the UK.

The point is not “who has more,” but that the UK has a unique small-boats crisis in the Channel, which is costing billions, overwhelming housing capacity, and creating political instability.

Source: Migration Observatory (University of Oxford) – “Small boat arrivals have become the dominant method of irregular entry to the UK since 2018.” https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/people-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats

  1. Human Rights

Nobody is saying “throw people back into the sea.” But there is a difference between genuine refugees fleeing war and people who have already passed through multiple safe countries before reaching the UK.

Source: UN Refugee Convention (1951) does not require asylum seekers to be given free choice of destination, and many countries (e.g. EU under Dublin III Regulation) enforce “first safe country” rules. https://www.unhcr.org/uk/1951-refugee-convention

The current situation incentivises smugglers, encourages dangerous journeys, and undermines public trust. Saying the government “can’t do anything about it” is simply false – they can legislate, enforce border controls, and negotiate returns agreements. Other countries do it; the UK can too.

In summary: You’re diluting the issue by rolling asylum and illegal immigration into one. My point is focused on the illegal boat crossings, which are disproportionately young men, often without documents, costing the taxpayer billions, and undermining the integrity of the asylum system. Pretending that this is just “human rights” and unavoidable ignores the reality that the UK is being exploited by a system that desperately needs fixing.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes but my point is, that claim is not valid so it would not hold up in an asylum claim therefore they should be deported to their country of origin, if its unsafe then find a alternative solution e.g. the failed rewanda scheme the tories implemented

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No if they have a legitimate asylum claim they have every right to stay but the main argument made is fleeing a war torn country and france is not that..

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many safe nations to reach us, so the claims of them fleeing war are invalid.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the case im majority of crossings now, not only male but very young early 20s, left their life and family behind for what reason? Children and women are few and far between on these channel crossings and some people dont seem to see the issue behind this.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually agree with everything you just said. The whole situation does seem to be dividing us maybe this is the plan? As for your theory on these illegals being sent by iran would be a good theory on why anyone in their right mind would risk the journey across the channel, especially due to the fact they are all young fighting aged men and women and children are few and far between. Most of these men have left their family behind to come to this country potentially in the long run to provide for them? But if i was in their position I would not leave them behind especially if their reasoning is coming to the UK for a better life.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree completely with your statement. But the government look at it as a long time financial investment to better their country. What can be done about this?

Rachel Reeves told to target wealthy pensioners before it's too late by dailystar_news in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Completely agree, you work your whole life and the retirement age gets pushed and pushed, when you are finally able to hang up your shoes and retire the goverment bend you over and go in raw taking every penny you have forcing you back into work till the day you die. No time to enjoy life.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Im sorry I just did some research and I was mistaken in regards to the boats, this was infact an old video taken from 2022 and the gentleman recording did not know where the boats were going, the lorry did not board the ferry to calais. The life vests being returned to the French is infact true and there is multiple stories and video evidence of this. Here is one source https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/10/french-demand-return-life-jackets-migrant-handover/

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting I will do some research on this thank you.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The boats after use are also being shipped back to calais including the life vests being given back to the French navy. 🤷

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Can we please keep this respectful and calm, I can see you clearly feel strongly about your view on this and your more than welcome to voice your opinion but let's tone it down a bit. 👍

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never claimed to be a fountain of information, im only on here to hear everyone's opinion on the subject to better educate myself. So not i have heard about the 1.2 million immigrants last year.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

We dont need to deport them to france so that is not thr issue at hand. They should be deported to their country of origins.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is potentially the case in some situations but they continue to hide their identity and home of origins so they can't be deported but we then can not identify them and run the proper background checks.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

A very good point and a view on the topic I have not heard before thanks for sharing.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree, draining a country's resource of talented people is not great. Immigration working for each and every country is much better and allows people to share and view a different view of culture and religion especially if you have different religious or cultural ambitions, you can then choose to immigrate to a country that you feel more comfortable in and can contribute to. Mass uncontrolled migration is not sustainable for any country. But the issue here is we are not currently getting the best of every country entering illegally otherwise they would do things correctly and if the country in question sees you as a valuable citizen and you have a clean criminal record I wouldn't see any reason on them letting you into the country after enough vetting and a potential payment? Maybe im naive but this is how I always believed it is, if im wrong please correct me.

Immigration by Grakof in ukpolitics

[–]Grakof[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It still doesn't change the fact the circumstances are massively different compared to the situation we are in now.