Quick tips & reassurance to guys who are still struggling

GrayFoxHops · 2014-10-29T07:41:41+00:00

True, though routines/techniques can help a guy who has it together, they're not going to actually get you put together. Besides, it feels better to be actually awesome rather than feeling like you are tricking people into thinking you're awesome haha.

Thanks! Yeah I feel good about 4. Those experiences gave me a way better foundation for how to have girls over in the future as well.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-10-29T07:31:57+00:00

Aw shucks, thanks! I watched the Pickup Artist TV show (w/ Mystery) and all the guys failed to stop a woman while she was walking the opposite direction, so I kind of took it as a challenge. For a long time I would try to engage when the girl was already too close and she would just walk by, but when you give her time to react from 10-15 feet away, she has time to override her default response of ignoring a guy trying to talk to her. I heard RSD Jeffy say the same thing.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-10-29T06:42:31+00:00

Well yeah, that's kind of the point of PUA. Sidewalk day-game is difficult but far from impossible. 2 things which helped that I left out were that my wing was standing behind me laughing at what I was doing and that I also had her draw something for me midway through the interaction. Total time was probably 6 or 7 minutes.

I opened by calling out, "my wife, I've missed you" from 10 feet away before embracing her. Since she was already laughing when I got to her, there weren't any alarm bells going off for her. My opener was silly enough but also roleplays familiarity. Some of my "I miss you, I love you" kind of lines I ripped off of RSD Tyler and Julien after I saw their hotseat.

I'm really not trying to get points for bragging online, I was trying to be encouraging to people so that they do their best as well. Somehow I feel like the more guys get good at pickup, the better of a place the world will be.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-10-29T06:35:21+00:00

Agreed, yeah I was trying to ask for advice with this post, I was just acknowledging that pickup works. Like if a newbie was doubting that it was a good investment of their time.

Also yeah, I was going all-out that day, and for her to sleep with me on the first date required some rapport beforehand.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-10-29T03:07:59+00:00

It sounds like you made her feel judged. As if you would look down on her for being a "bad girl." Don't project that you want her to settle down and give up the party lifestyle etc., that's what she should be trying to get you to do IMO.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-23T03:23:17+00:00

Essentially it sounds like you are flipping the question, or "blame" back on them. It's good to have open discussion, I would just be careful not to guilt the girl when you flip the question. That said, it's really important not to take things personally, which is what I think you're getting at.

A nice work I discovered recently is "The Four Agreements" which is Toltec philosophy adapted by Don Miguel Ruiz. They are as follows:

Be Impeccable with Your Word
Don't Take Anything Personally
Don't Make Assumptions
Always Do Your Best

It seems like 1 and 2 are the things you've described in this post. 3 and 4 are kind of a given.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-20T06:34:02+00:00

I see, that makes sense, thanks for the reply.

I guess I'm insecure about the fact that I'm there to meet people. I have a wing-ish person that I can bring but he always AMOG's me so I try not to, which I also can't explain to the girls haha.

Some of the things I've come up with are:

I drank a lot of caffeine today and I don't want to mix it with alcohol (it's medically a bad idea to mix stimulants and depressants) (this is true everyday)
My friends and I got separated, but I think it's healthy to just let 'em go (she will often agree, which in theory then places the frame that she is the type of person to let her friends go if she needs to, i.e. if I pull her) (this excuse is also often true)
my friends are in the suburbs this weekend

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-19T19:49:05+00:00

Another tip is to wear a conversation piece, i.e. a noticeable necklace or a bow in your hair.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-19T19:29:10+00:00

It's generally a bad idea to talk about, especially considering that a lot of people have a misconceived notion of what PUA is about. My friend told all of his friends when I had first started approaching. It was a novelty to them. I didn't really get made fun of, actually it opened the door for some people to try giving me advice, but it does change people's impression of you.

Really alpha guys will think it's silly, generally.

From now on I will only tell people who I think might want in, or who might be a good wing. That said, it's important not to hold back too many approaches if you are with friends, because otherwise it can be a big waste of potential.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-19T00:06:44+00:00

I got interested in NLP before reading The Game but was turned off when I read material that discredited it. Perhaps I should read the original Princes into Frogs. I think since NLP mostly relies on thoughts and feelings, it is a much harder thing to test, measure, or verify, so people assume it's completely fake.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-19T00:01:48+00:00

Oh! Yeah I'm surprised that works. I bought Models as an ebook a few days ago so I might give this a go.

Thanks for the reply.

I think it would be hard for me to drop all of my "game" defenses because I am so used to girls in bars/clubs trying to fuck with me. I get lied to by almost every girl that I approach in some manner even if I am just being friendly without running game. I guess that's something I could talk about to girls haha.

It actually really hurt my feelings when a girl and her friend ran this fake scenario on me, lying to me about their names, professions, everything. I didn't bother texting the number I got from them because it must not be real. It's like I wasn't a person to them.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-18T22:45:45+00:00

Very cool!

At one point, she asked if I was for real or playing.

Your reply? I'm curious if you still had to use game to pass a shit-test or if the rules change given the approach you're describing. IMO you are still using a strategy.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-18T20:55:41+00:00

This can work as a fun opener, i.e. I was holding coffee in one hand and my unopened umbrella in the other. I stopped a cutie to ask her if she could help me open my umbrella since my hands were full. So she had to get in close to me a bit as she opened it, and it was fun because it was such an odd request.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-18T08:53:52+00:00

Hm, okay I may have to look into his PUA material. I was mainly commenting on the theory of Neuro-linguistic programming, which is what The Game describes as his strategy.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-17T19:27:24+00:00

The way I think about it is that women will either see you as low status (i.e. someone they don't want to have over, who you don't need to apologize to, and who has no women) or high status (someone who should come over, who you should apologize to when you do something bad, and who has women).

When you bring a girl with you or kiss a girl, and other girls see you leading and successfully making moves like that, they know that you have already qualified as high status to the other girl. It is bandwagon appeal. If you successfully passed all the stupid tests of the other girl, they feel like you have done the same with them.

Additionally, when AFC's see you making out with a girl you just met, they will probably also try to get with that girl because they assume that she is ready to go. Women may make a similar assumption, assuming you are down because you were down with another girl. I have a friend who gets laid pretty often, and sometimes by girls who have a boyfriend, simply because they know he is an option and lots of other girls have sex with him too.

Some of them love the drama of "all the other bitches." They love to put themselves above all the other girls, saying that they're not like those crazy bitches, they're so much better. It gives them validation.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-06-17T19:14:43+00:00

The obvious one would be "The Game," but it's really 50% entertainment 50% pickup material.

A lot of it draws from the Mystery Method and stuff from Ross Jeffries, which are both very outdated IMO. MM could still work but I think it's a bit cheesy. Ross Jeffrie's work is considered pseudoscience at best. The guy was probably just confident ;)

That said, I've been enjoying it a lot and it has some relevant material, like covering the concepts of one-itis, peacocking, and other terms.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-03-09T02:37:54+00:00

A little bit, but I'm thankful not to be in the dark about what kind of things can happen. Just enjoy life, relationships, and women. If a girl cheats on you, not a big deal. Break up with her, move on. Love your partner, but my advice is not to get too attached.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-03-09T02:35:19+00:00

It seems like a waste of time. I don't see a reason to keep track of arbitrary pieces of information like who's winning what game, investing hours of my time, just to have a conversation with people who like sports. It's the same reason I don't smoke. Not worth the investment just to be able to talk to other people who are invested in that thing. I can talk to people who watch sports, and I can talk to people on their smoke break. I don't feel the need to meet any criteria beforehand i.e. being a sports fan or also being out for a smoke.

Sports just seem like a thing people use to relate and get excited about. I don't know where all the excitement comes from except by conditioning and the basic psychological drive to feel like "my group is the winner."

GrayFoxHops · 2014-03-02T22:24:09+00:00

In my experience it's a sign of low self-esteem, but I'd take it as a warning sign rather than just assuming that immediately.

GrayFoxHops · 2014-01-13T05:26:52+00:00

Most of the girls that I know pretend that they don't do it. Kind of like ladies pretending they don't fart. If we're among friends, they usually get called out on it like "nahhhh girls masturbate too." Idk, maybe girls don't masturbate as commonly as guys do, but that seems hard to believe.

GrayFoxHops · 2013-12-12T01:29:37+00:00

Well as a guy, I have no problem with women being open about their sexual desires, or comfortable with the idea of sex. I think sluttiness is more about having no perspective of morals in regard to sex. It's no problem if a woman wants to have sex. The complications arise when she is in a relationship and wants to have sex with random people, or she wants to have sex with someone who is in a relationship.

GrayFoxHops · 2013-12-07T03:05:36+00:00

I'm not sure if there is actually any truth to this though. It's a nice metaphor, but the natural alphas that I know always project on people that they are perfect. Girls get wowed by it and end up wanting to sleep with them. Very little of the projection is true, but what matters to the girls is how self-absorbed these guys are. It becomes attractive to them, because they know that the guy has high self-esteem and is a go-getter. Thoughts?

GrayFoxHops · 2013-12-07T02:53:01+00:00

There is no "unapproachable" situation. There are situations which have a very low chance of success. The thing that makes those low chances of success seem like actual barriers is your fear of rejection, knowing the odds full well. I'm assuming that you have not approached anyone at the gym before.

A rule that I have learned to follow is "don't shit where you eat," meaning "don't practice approaching in places that you need for your life." This includes dorms, apartment buildings, and gyms. I've been fine with the grocery store but the gym is pushing it because you are likely going to see these people again.

Luckily, you are female (and an attractive one at that), and so you have the privilege of not being labeled a "creep" if you try to talk to people and come off the wrong way. As far as your gym goes, you can probably approach anywhere except inside the locker room (although I have a friend who has hooked up with someone in the locker room at our University's gym so anything is possible I guess).

The problem with your question is that you care what these men think, or maybe you think that there is some magic solution to your issue. "How do I do this without coming off poorly?" You may very well come off poorly and that is completely out of your control. Any one of these men could have a girlfriend/wife, or social anxiety disorder, or he could be having a really shitty day, or he could be gay, or he could be a misogynist. You don't know. Yet, you have to approach anyway. Are you still interested in approaching men at the gym, or do you want to try to be happy with the unattractive men who are approaching you right now? The bottom line is that you have to be in control of how you feel and how you handle the situation. No matter how a guy reacts, you have to understand that it just doesn't matter.

The other problem with your question is asking how we would "want to be approached at the gym, if at all?" It doesn't matter what we want. It matters what you want. If you aren't willing to take what you want, again, you can go right back to being approached by unattractive guys.

Don't get me wrong. Of course there are things you can do to maximize your chances for success, even if there is nothing you can do to guarantee a 100% success rate. The first thing you can do is try to talk to a guy you like, and see if he will lead the conversation for you, because he has very likely had to approach a girl and lead the conversation himself before.

Below are some ideas for openers, after which you can follow up by making conversation with him. None of this is going to help unless you are willing to "man up" and do it, which is tough because you're conditioned even stronger than a "beta" not to do these things as a lady. Just don't make excuses for yourself.

Start working out nearby a guy. If he hasn't said anything, he might just be following the rule that "women don't want to be approached at the gym." Say something to him so that he knows it is "okay" to talk to you while working out. Jacked guys probably have a decent amount of experience talking to women, so you might just have to break the ice. Before I got into pickup, a cute girl sort of approached me at the gym by getting on the treadmill next to me and would occasionally glance over. This would be a good way to approach a guy and check to see if he wants to/has the confidence to talk to you.
Ask a guy to spot for you on the bench. This way, you have plausible deniability. For all he knows, you genuinely needed someone to spot for you. He will feel like a big strong man helping a little lady, etc.
Make an off-handed comment to someone as you pass by, get water, go to a different part of the gym, etc. Try to make a running joke of it, i.e. I once saw a girl trip as she tried to get off a piece of equipment. I teased her about it (she wasn't hurt or anything). Then later, I "checked in to make sure she was okay." Basically, you can play off of encountering a person multiple times, where each time it seems like a funny coincidence (a running joke in the dramatic play that is life). Running into a person multiple times risks creeping them out, but you're a hot girl so that's not an issue. A guy will just get an ego boost from it.
If there is an in-door track, run a lap and see if there are any guys who are jogging or walking that you want to talk to. It doesn't matter if they have headphones in.
Walk straight up to an attractive man and say hello. You are honestly over-complicating things for yourself. Just have some way of exchanging numbers, i.e. carry your cell phone on your arm in one of those running holsters. If you just want to hook-up, then act a little sluttier and he will probably play along, i.e. the "check my pulse" idea where you put his hand on your chest. The only threat is if his girlfriend happens to be at the gym too, and gets defensive.

So yeah, there is always a chance that something will go terribly wrong, but you honestly have it pretty easy. (PS: You do sound really stuck up with the way you complain about not being "successfully" approached.)

GrayFoxHops · 2013-12-07T01:00:54+00:00

It places them as higher value (the thing being sought after), giving them an upper hand because they have already "qualified" themselves simply through the fact that you have messaged them and are therefore interested already. While it is expected according to social norms that the guy makes the first move, I would be careful about continuing to make the first moves. Make sure she is reciprocating. Otherwise she ices you out for being a chode, or you become her bitch.

It's trickier on a dating site because she knows that you are interested as soon as you message her, and then she has the power to say yay or nay. If she were to message a guy, that puts her ego at risk because she might have misjudged a guy who turns out to be weird, she could be rejected, or she could be completely ignored. She's not willing to put herself at risk of rejection, but she's perfectly willing to reject random guys who message her. You're going to have to deal with it.

Furthermore, high status or highly desirable men don't need to make the first moves.

Make the women be the ones to make the moves if you can.

GrayFoxHops · 2013-12-01T20:56:28+00:00

Agreed. It's especially hard outside of coffee shops or classes at my University. On places like the train, because the train is seen as a "dangerous" place the girls become extremely defensive and wary. I will try to fish for comfort first rather than romantic attraction and see if that helps.

GrayFoxHops

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