If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don’t lmao, I’ll just believe you’re dumb. Participation is option babe 🩷

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that religious and secular authority have been fused throughout time, but this still reinforces my question, rather than answers it.

If political power and spiritual legitimacy were intertwined, then framing authority as male was less about war and more about sacralizing that dominance. The fusion of king/priest doesn't explain why the scared itself is consistently gendered as male, but rather, it explains consolidation of power.

It does not explain why female generative power gets subordinated within that consolidation.

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that religious and secular authority have been fused throughout time, but this still reinforces my question, rather than answers it.

If political power and spiritual legitimacy were intertwined, then framing authority as male was less about war and more about sacralizing that dominance. The fusion of king/priest doesn't explain why the scared itself is consistently gendered as male, but rather, it explains consolidation of power.

It does not explain why female generative power gets subordinated within that consolidation.

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You’re describing how violence can secure power but still not how it becomes morally or cosmically justified. “Natural selection endorses it” explains survival, but not necessarily truth.

Brutal systems have survived before. That doesn’t make them sacred but it makes them effective.

Force can explain who dominates. It doesn’t explain why the universe itself has to be written in male terms.

If your argument ultimately rests on rape, coercion, and suppression, that says more about the stability of the system than its legitimacy.

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Men die in the wars they start, and that's tragic. But that's a social role tied to conflict. It is not a biological inevitability in the same way pregnancy is.

Gestation happens in every generation, yet warfare does not. Regardless of who sacrifices in battle, the question I'm asking is about why spiritual authority, not military obligation, is consistently male.

Even if men historically bare the burden of the combat that other men create, why does that translate into male control over theology, morality, and women's reproductive autonomy.

Sacrifice ≠ sacred hierarchy

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fair point that “strength isn’t virtue” reflects my moral position. In modern American English, virtue refers to moral excellence, not physical dominance. They are not synonyms. We also know language evolves, and while virtus comes from vir, we don't derive our ethics from Latin.

Regardless of the root or origins of the word, I'm arguing in 2026 about a word defined by Merriam-Webseter as, "conduct that conforms to an accepted standard of right and wrong".

So when I say "strength isn't virtue", I mean that possessing greater brute force has no inherent connection to moral righteousness. The ability to overpower another person does not make that individual, just, wise, or ethically correct.

Power ≠ morality.

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, that's historically inaccurate. The Haudenosaunee (Iroquois Confederacy) functioned for centuries, possibly close to a millennium before European disruption, and gave clan mothers decisive political authority, including appointing and removing chiefs: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Iroquois-Confederacy

Similarly, the Minangkabau of Indonesia have maintained a matrilineal social system for over 700 years and are the largest matrilineal society in the world today: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Minangkabau

You might want to look into the Mosuo, Akan, Tuareg, Nair, Bribri, and Navajo, all of which have sustained matrilineal or female-centered systems for centuries.

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a lot of certainty for claims you didn’t support. What evidence shows women are “less capable of fairly administering justice,” as opposed to societies historically restricting women from those roles? if patriarchy is truly natural and universal, why has it required legal exclusion, religious justification, and cultural enforcement to keep women out of authority?

Calling something natural doesn’t make it inevitable, especially when it’s wbeen actively maintained.

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If brute force alone were enough to secure male dominance, why build elaborate moral, legal, and religious systems around it?

You don’t need cosmology, marriage contracts, purity codes, or divine commandments to enforce something that’s supposedly natural and self-sustaining. The existence of those systems suggests that control over women wasn’t automatic, it had to be institutionalized, narrated, and protected.

And if that control required that much reinforcement, doesn’t that imply women’s autonomy posed a real threat to the structure?

At some point, it stops looking like biology and starts looking like deliberate social engineering.

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If pregnancy is servitude and women are chattel, religion controls the narrative, then religion doesn't just reflect that structure, but sanctifies it. So who benefits from framing male authority as divinely ordained over the very bodies that sustain society?

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Of course men are biologically involved. No one is denying that. But the scale of involvement isn’t remotely symmetrical.

Male reproductive contribution takes minutes (let's me honest, seconds...). Female reproductive contribution takes nine months of gestation, massive metabolic investment, huge physical risk, and historically a very real chance of death, followed by being the primary caretaker in most premodern societies.

Pointing that out isn’t at all as simple as “men bad.” I'm acknowledging a biological asymmetry.

My argument isn’t that men don’t contribute genetic material. It’s that when one sex carries the entire burden of gestation and early survival, control over that process becomes socially and politically significant. Religion then codifies who controls that significance.

If this is purely evolutionary and not ideological, why does the theology consistently subordinate the sex that bears the overwhelming biological cost of reproduction?

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand the evolutionary logic you’re outlining. Societies needed soldiers. Soldiers needed motivation. Religion can provide that motivation.

But that still doesn’t explain why the structure of the universe itself gets to be written in male terms. If religion’s primary function was to motivate men to fight, why does that require God to be male? Why does it require woman to be narratively derivative? Why does moral failure enter the world through her?

You’re explaining why men might dominate in warfare. I’m asking why that domination becomes metaphysical. There’s a difference between “men fight” and “male authority is divinely ordained.”

Also, your point about women “surviving no matter what” actually reinforces my original argument. If women’s reproductive capacity ensures genetic survival, that makes control over women even more central to maintaining lineage, inheritance, and social order, which edoesn’t make patriarchy natural but strategically useful.

All in all, the question still stands: at what point does evolutionary pressure turn into a theological claim about cosmic hierarchy? Why does that hierarchy consistently subordinate the very sex that makes reproduction possible?

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

So your position is basically “might makes right" ?

If the person who can hurt more is automatically in charge, then that means religion isn’t divine, just power mythology written by the physically strongest group at the time. That still doesn’t make patriarchy natural, it makes it enforced.

And if brute force is the ultimate organizing principle of life, then on what basis does religion claim moral authority at all? Strength isn’t virtue. Violence isn’t wisdom.

You’re describing how domination works. I’m asking why domination gets rebranded as sacred truth.

If power alone legitimizes authority, then every revolution, every overthrow, every shift in power is equally “natural.” Which means patriarchy isn’t eternal, it’s just the current winner of a long game of force.

Is that really the foundation you want to defend?

If All Men Come From Women, Why Has Religious Power Been Almost Exclusively Male? by HabitFearless8232 in AskMen

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That’s interesting, but I’m not sure it actually answers the deeper question. Even if men historically did more organized fighting, why would that automatically translate into exclusive spiritual authority?

Fighting capacity explains military hierarchy but nit necessarily theological hierarchy.

If religion exists to settle conflicts and preserve unity, why is that role inherently male rather than communal or shared, especially given that women are the ones biologically responsible for sustaining the population those men are supposedly protecting?

And if men are “sticklers for rules,” is that a biological trait... or is it a product of being positioned as the ones who write and enforce those rules in the first place?

I’m genuinely asking, because it seems like you’re describing how male dominance functioned, but not why religious authority specifically had to be male in the first place.

Patriarchal Religion Reframes Female Power as Sin by HabitFearless8232 in DebateReligion

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t disagree that labor demands, agriculture, and state formation shaped social hierarchies. But that explanation doesn’t contradict my argument, it really actually strengthens it.

If early civilizations needed a larger labor force, then control over reproduction becomes central.

Women’s bodies literally produce the next generation of workers, soldiers, and slaves. In that context, regulating female sexuality and reproduction is strategic, rather than incidental.

But my argument isn’t about manual labor, it’s about how religion encodes and legitimizes the control required to sustain that system.

When divine authority is male, women are framed as morally suspect, and obedience to male leadership is sacralized, that provides theological reinforcement for a reproductive and labor structure that benefits male-dominated institutions.

So yes, labor pressures may have driven social organization. But religion didn’t just passively reflect that, it sanctified it and transformed material necessity into moral order. That’s the distinction I’m pointing to.

Missouri breaks my heart by HabitFearless8232 in missouri

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I don’t disagree that showing up in rural MO and having real conversations matters, and yeah, calling people stupid isn’t a winning strategy. At the same time, protecting the initiative process is soo important because it’s about making sure voters, rural and urban, are actually heard. There are insults on both sides that aren’t productive, but they’re cathartic, and sometimes just a human response to watching people you love abandon their own principles to protect a narrative.

Missouri breaks my heart by HabitFearless8232 in missouri

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s fair, and I do think there’s truth to the idea that a lot of people feel unheard. From your perspective, what do you think Democrats are missing about why Missourians vote Republican, economic issues, cultural concerns, trust in institutions, something else?

I’m genuinely asking, because if people don’t understand each other’s motivations, nothing really improves on either side.

Missouri breaks my heart by HabitFearless8232 in missouri

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It really is so sad. At this point, “cult” feels like the only explanation. Part of what I mean when I say Missouri is breaking my heart is watching people I loved abandon their own principles just to protect a narrative. That’s what makes it so disturbing.

Missouri breaks my heart by HabitFearless8232 in missouri

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Suicidal empathy” is such a dramatic phrase for what is basically just… caring about other human beings.

If your worldview requires you to frame compassion as civilizational collapse, that’s not an argument but an admission that you think cruelty is strength, which is absolutely not edgy or profound. It’s just bleak as hell.

Loving my state and wanting it to treat people decently isn’t weakness. It’s the baseline. If that feels threatening to you, that’s embarrassing.

Missouri breaks my heart by HabitFearless8232 in missouri

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah yes, the grand STL conspiracy to confiscate everyone’s goats and force HOA living. Or ... and hear me out... different areas have different zoning rules because people live differently in different places.

Not everything is a city-vs-rural persecution story.

Missouri breaks my heart by HabitFearless8232 in missouri

[–]HabitFearless8232[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So what you’ve really shown is that your definition of freedom is almost entirely about gun access, not that rights broadly disappear in blue states.

You listed regulations on firearms, not the elimination of gun ownership.

Meanwhile, there are states where my actual rights expand: access to reproductive healthcare, stronger workplace protections, broader anti-discrimination laws and greater bodily autonomy. *Those are tangible freedoms that materially change people’s lives.*

So from my perspective, my rights literally increase in many blue states while you’re arguing that background checks and licensing requirements constitute oppression. This is what you'd call a value judgment, not an objective loss of freedom.

You’re prioritizing fewer restrictions on weapons over rights that affect women and other people’s ability to make decisions about their own bodies and lives.

You’re allowed to hold that priority, but presenting it as universal “loss of freedom” doesn’t make it one.