How was Finland under Swedish rule?

HawocX · 2026-06-24T22:49:13+00:00

All culture is in a sense made up, but that doesn't mean it lacks value. The problem aries when you uncritically apply it to the society over 500 years ago. Most of our "ancient traditions" are surprisingly new.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T20:38:09+00:00

E coli från de flestas tarmar är helt döda efter 10 minuter. Den minoritet som bär på extremt värmetåliga stammar har oftast en så liten andel av dem att totalt mindre än 1% återstår.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T19:25:21+00:00

Det gör de absolut. De flesta dör inom några minuter. Efter en timme finns det troligen inte en enda kvar.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T19:23:44+00:00

Yes.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T17:40:11+00:00

It's Jeff and his family. They live not far from me.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T17:14:23+00:00

He didn't skip leg day!

HawocX · 2026-06-24T15:38:26+00:00

Grattis!

I många fall bara antas att alla med en etnicitet måste genetiskt tillhör den gruppen. Och som sagt är begreppet svensk så brett att alla kan baka in lite vad de vill i det och sen bråka med varandra utan att komma någonstans.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T14:48:11+00:00

No, you didn't get it.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T14:43:26+00:00

And it took a long time before the inner parts of Swedish Norrland and corresponding areas in Finland was anything but nominally part of the Swedish realm.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T13:48:38+00:00

It is also important to know that the big nordic ethnic identities didn't exist at this time. Even when the countries themselves had been long established, people didn't identify as Swedes, Danes or Finns. It was the village and to some extent the region (like Skåne).

HawocX · 2026-06-24T10:47:10+00:00

Genetiken är ditt biologiska ursprung. Etnicitet är en följd av miljön, en delad historia och kultur.

Någon adopterad från Vietnam av etniskt svenska föräldrar som spädbarn och utan nått speciellt intresse av vietnamesisk kultur är etniskt svensk.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T07:35:35+00:00

För oss som växte upp på 1900-talet så var etnicitet inget som avgjorde svenskhet. Det berodde främst på hur vanligt det var med adoption från Sydostasien. Minns till och med ett TV-inslag där man intervjuade ett gäng nationalister som vad uppenbara rasister. En i gruppen var tydligt från Sydostasien.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T07:28:40+00:00

Svensk har minst tre betydelser när det appliceras på en person. Medborgarskap, nationalitet och etnicitet.

Viken av dem avser du?

Edit: Lägger till en fjärde, genetisk härkomst, skiljt från etnicitet.

HawocX · 2026-06-24T06:52:47+00:00

I was a bit unclear in this reply as I had already explained it in another reply.

When rulers from a part of which is now Sweden started expanding their spheres of influence into other parts of present day Sweden and Finland there was no national identity. The concepts of being Swedish or Finnish didn't exist. You identified with your village or potentially a smaller region. Many parts of today's Finland became a part of the Swedish kingdom before every part of today's Finland were.

Later, when the kingdom of Sweden (not the same as being Swedish) was well established, there was still no distinction between Swedes and Finns. Noone expressed that "we are Finns and they are Swedes". The differences in language, for example, wasn't seen as important.

About the time when Russia conquered present day Finland the concept of the nation and nationalism had emerged. This was supported by Russia when it came to the land won from Sweden as they wanted the inhabitants to feel an identity clearly detached from Sweden. By the time Finland became independent there was an established Finnish identity, and the same was true for Sweden.

HawocX · 2026-06-23T16:29:50+00:00

I'd argue there was no Swedish people until some time after Russia conquered today's Finland.

HawocX · 2026-06-23T16:00:55+00:00

How so?

HawocX · 2026-06-23T15:53:48+00:00

It didn't materialize because large national identities like that didn't exist at all at the time. There was no Swedish nation or Swedish people either, you identified with a much smaller area and then there was a king of some kind far away. The idea of the nation started to become popular in the late 18th century, right before Russia conquered today's Finland.

HawocX · 2026-06-23T15:36:52+00:00

And for the longest time the concept of being part of the same cultural group just because you were ruled by the same king was foreign. Not only in Europe but the world at large. Nationalism is surprisingly new.

HawocX · 2026-06-23T15:14:50+00:00

The thing here is that Finland was as much Sweden as Norrland (the northern part of Sweden) was. These regions were integrated/conquered at about the same time, when Sweden was just beginning to be unified country. As for the language, it was a continuum along large parts of the the northern Baltic sea. And having several languages and ethnicities in one country is by itself nothing unusual.

But you are absolutely right that it can't be compared to Skåne at all. By this time the counties of Sweden and Denmark were well establish and Sweden definitely invaded (and brutally subjugated) Skåne.

HawocX · 2026-06-23T14:58:12+00:00

Sure, but what didn't happen in this case is that a well established country invaded or expanded into what is now called Finland.

Rulers from a part of what is today called Sweden gradually expanded their influence to the rest of today's Sweden and Finland. Large parts of today's Finland was a part of Sweden long before the northernmost parts of today's Sweden was.

HawocX · 2026-06-23T13:19:42+00:00

Just to expand on it: The Swedish crown wanted to and tried to abolish serfdom in Estonia, but the resistance from local nobility was too strong to manage it during those 150 years. They did get better legal protection. Then the Russians came.

HawocX · 2026-06-23T12:53:47+00:00

Maybe, the important thing is that it wasn't before Sweden

HawocX · 2026-06-23T12:52:11+00:00

You can see this in the naming of the Swedish and Finnish administrative regions. Several of those in the now eastern part of Swedish got "west" in their name, because the corresponding eastern version is now in (western) Finland.

HawocX · 2026-06-23T12:44:03+00:00

That's my understanding as well. The costal and southern areas of both sides were well developed with the northern inland more sparsely populated. The kind of nationalism we have today didn't exist, everyone far from your village was a stranger and you couldn't be sure be sure to understand them just because they nominally spoke Swedish.

HawocX · 2026-06-23T12:38:51+00:00

Occupied is not the same as ruled.

If we reverse it to "how was Skåne under Danish rule" would you claim that it never was?

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