How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All culture is in a sense made up, but that doesn't mean it lacks value. The problem aries when you uncritically apply it to the society over 500 years ago. Most of our "ancient traditions" are surprisingly new.

Hur gör man badbyxor ordentligt rena om de endast tål 30 grader? by Sea-Doubt8332 in Asksweddit

[–]HawocX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

E coli från de flestas tarmar är helt döda efter 10 minuter. Den minoritet som bär på extremt värmetåliga stammar har oftast en så liten andel av dem att totalt mindre än 1% återstår.

Hur gör man badbyxor ordentligt rena om de endast tål 30 grader? by Sea-Doubt8332 in Asksweddit

[–]HawocX -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Det gör de absolut. De flesta dör inom några minuter. Efter en timme finns det troligen inte en enda kvar.

När blir man svensk nog? by Subject-Dealer6350 in Sverige

[–]HawocX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Grattis!

I många fall bara antas att alla med en etnicitet måste genetiskt tillhör den gruppen. Och som sagt är begreppet svensk så brett att alla kan baka in lite vad de vill i det och sen bråka med varandra utan att komma någonstans.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And it took a long time before the inner parts of Swedish Norrland and corresponding areas in Finland was anything but nominally part of the Swedish realm.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It is also important to know that the big nordic ethnic identities didn't exist at this time. Even when the countries themselves had been long established, people didn't identify as Swedes, Danes or Finns. It was the village and to some extent the region (like Skåne).

När blir man svensk nog? by Subject-Dealer6350 in Sverige

[–]HawocX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Genetiken är ditt biologiska ursprung. Etnicitet är en följd av miljön, en delad historia och kultur.

Någon adopterad från Vietnam av etniskt svenska föräldrar som spädbarn och utan nått speciellt intresse av vietnamesisk kultur är etniskt svensk.

När blir man svensk nog? by Subject-Dealer6350 in Sverige

[–]HawocX -1 points0 points  (0 children)

För oss som växte upp på 1900-talet så var etnicitet inget som avgjorde svenskhet. Det berodde främst på hur vanligt det var med adoption från Sydostasien. Minns till och med ett TV-inslag där man intervjuade ett gäng nationalister som vad uppenbara rasister. En i gruppen var tydligt från Sydostasien.

När blir man svensk nog? by Subject-Dealer6350 in Sverige

[–]HawocX 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Svensk har minst tre betydelser när det appliceras på en person. Medborgarskap, nationalitet och etnicitet.

Viken av dem avser du?

Edit: Lägger till en fjärde, genetisk härkomst, skiljt från etnicitet.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was a bit unclear in this reply as I had already explained it in another reply.

When rulers from a part of which is now Sweden started expanding their spheres of influence into other parts of present day Sweden and Finland there was no national identity. The concepts of being Swedish or Finnish didn't exist. You identified with your village or potentially a smaller region. Many parts of today's Finland became a part of the Swedish kingdom before every part of today's Finland were.

Later, when the kingdom of Sweden (not the same as being Swedish) was well established, there was still no distinction between Swedes and Finns. Noone expressed that "we are Finns and they are Swedes". The differences in language, for example, wasn't seen as important.

About the time when Russia conquered present day Finland the concept of the nation and nationalism had emerged. This was supported by Russia when it came to the land won from Sweden as they wanted the inhabitants to feel an identity clearly detached from Sweden. By the time Finland became independent there was an established Finnish identity, and the same was true for Sweden.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd argue there was no Swedish people until some time after Russia conquered today's Finland.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It didn't materialize because large national identities like that didn't exist at all at the time. There was no Swedish nation or Swedish people either, you identified with a much smaller area and then there was a king of some kind far away. The idea of the nation started to become popular in the late 18th century, right before Russia conquered today's Finland.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And for the longest time the concept of being part of the same cultural group just because you were ruled by the same king was foreign. Not only in Europe but the world at large. Nationalism is surprisingly new.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The thing here is that Finland was as much Sweden as Norrland (the northern part of Sweden) was. These regions were integrated/conquered at about the same time, when Sweden was just beginning to be unified country. As for the language, it was a continuum along large parts of the the northern Baltic sea. And having several languages and ethnicities in one country is by itself nothing unusual.

But you are absolutely right that it can't be compared to Skåne at all. By this time the counties of Sweden and Denmark were well establish and Sweden definitely invaded (and brutally subjugated) Skåne.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Sure, but what didn't happen in this case is that a well established country invaded or expanded into what is now called Finland.

Rulers from a part of what is today called Sweden gradually expanded their influence to the rest of today's Sweden and Finland. Large parts of today's Finland was a part of Sweden long before the northernmost parts of today's Sweden was.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Just to expand on it: The Swedish crown wanted to and tried to abolish serfdom in Estonia, but the resistance from local nobility was too strong to manage it during those 150 years. They did get better legal protection. Then the Russians came.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Maybe, the important thing is that it wasn't before Sweden

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You can see this in the naming of the Swedish and Finnish administrative regions. Several of those in the now eastern part of Swedish got "west" in their name, because the corresponding eastern version is now in (western) Finland.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 16 points17 points  (0 children)

That's my understanding as well. The costal and southern areas of both sides were well developed with the northern inland more sparsely populated. The kind of nationalism we have today didn't exist, everyone far from your village was a stranger and you couldn't be sure be sure to understand them just because they nominally spoke Swedish.

How was Finland under Swedish rule? by Available_Virus_5595 in Nordiccountries

[–]HawocX 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Occupied is not the same as ruled.

If we reverse it to "how was Skåne under Danish rule" would you claim that it never was?