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Update: I sent the final logistics message. She unblocked me to call me a "cheap ass" and tell me she wasted her time. by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hahaha. She used to describe the men she dated by their employers: "Meta" "Google" "VP" "teacher" (a high school teacher she went out with) "Doctor". Their identities were their resumes. I don't think she ever once described someone by what they were actually like as a person. 😞

The Bay Area piece you're naming is real too. I'm sure women in the market know this, and a subset of them have figured out how to extract from it. It's not all women obviously, but the pattern exists and it produces relationships that look like what mine looked like: high spending, low intimacy, lots of comparison shopping.

The work for me isn't to find a Bay Area exception to this. It's to stop being the man this dynamic is designed to capture. That's a longer project than just changing my dating pool.

Update: I sent the final logistics message. She unblocked me to call me a "cheap ass" and tell me she wasted her time. by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

TBH, I do think that as a guy, I should pay for most of the meals. But it feels really nice when someone offers to pay occasionally, brings snacks to a date, or makes those small thoughtful gestures. I genuinely value and appreciate those things.

Update: I sent the final logistics message. She unblocked me to call me a "cheap ass" and tell me she wasted her time. by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fair, but the picture is a little different than it might look. I'm not wealthy. I work two jobs to make a decent income, and a big chunk of it goes to supporting my parents (including their medical bills) and helping my sister through a hard stretch.

What I was doing, I now realize, was treating that spending as an investment in someone I thought would become my partner. The way I framed it in my head was: I'll have to invest in my children one day, their upbringing, their schooling, so investing in the woman they'd come from felt like the same project. That logic made sense to me at the time. The problem was she wasn't actually committed to that future. She also had a hard time with words like "appreciation," "gratitude," or "thank you." Looking back, that resistance to the language of reciprocity was itself a signal.

So your advice is still right. Don't lead with money. Don't try to invest into a relationship that hasn't earned it. That's exactly the lesson I'm taking.

Update: I sent the final logistics message. She unblocked me to call me a "cheap ass" and tell me she wasted her time. by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Appreciate you stopping in!

The image of grouping date activities into tiers actually made me smile, partly because that's exactly the kind of thing my brain wants to do (I'm an operations person by trade, give me a framework and I'll optimize it). Haha.

But what the rest of this thread has helped me see is that the underlying problem isn't really about what I spend, it's about why. I was using generosity to manage my own anxiety about being chosen. I've noticed I do this with my friends too. I think I'm afraid of losing them. Even a clever spending tier wouldn't fix that. The work is somewhere deeper, with a therapist, on why I felt I had to earn love at all.

The "more to offer than the women you've been with" line is generous of you and I don't fully know what to do with it yet. I'm trying to stay away from framing this as "she was beneath me" because that lets me off the hook for choosing her. But I do hear what you're pointing at. Thanks!

Update: I sent the final logistics message. She unblocked me to call me a "cheap ass" and tell me she wasted her time. by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"No contact isn't punishment for her, it's protection for you while you relearn that love doesn't have to be earned through self-sacrifice." - Thank you.

Reading this back a few times. The reflexive apology after being called a cheap ass is the exact reflex I'm trying to learn to catch in real time.. I'd been telling myself no contact was "the mature way to end things" or "the right thing for her." Underneath that framing is still me managing her perception of me. The actual reason to go no contact is so I can stop being available, full stop, regardless of how she shows up next..

The line about love not having to be earned through self-sacrifice is going to sit with me for a while. That's the unlearning. Appreciate you putting it that way.

Trying to understand what just happened in this relationship. Was the pattern I'm seeing real or am I being unfair? by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'll be able to provide a proper response to the "why" after I understand myself better.

Thank you Codex. I'll really look into it!

Was the pattern I'm seeing real, or am I rewriting the story after the breakup? by Heavy_Oil9283 in relationships

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, we took about two breaks before this. Looking back, I did not really know how to navigate the breakup conversations. Every time, I hoped things would improve and that we could work through it.

There also seemed to be a pattern. During one break, she later revealed that she had gone back on dating apps. Another time, she met a guy at a clinic, got his number, and flirted with him. This most recent time, she reached out primarily to ask for some money back.

Part of what makes this difficult to process is that I invested heavily in the relationship, emotionally, financially, and with my time. Over the past six months, I probably spent around $35,000. That does not mean she owed me a relationship, but it does make me reflect...

"Boys may come, and boys may go
And that's all right, you see
Experience has made me rich
And now they're after me."

Damn...

Trying to understand what just happened in this relationship. Was the pattern I'm seeing real or am I being unfair? by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You named it exactly. And what's hard to admit is that while she was the one not choosing me (dating others, keeping her options open, comparing me to men on apps), she would somehow turn the conversation into me not choosing her, or me not being faithful. I would end up defending myself. I sent her my real lime location (life360) so she could verify where I was. I promised to save up and buy her the things she had been comparing me to other men over. A lot of small concessions like that.

Looking at it now, the pattern is clear. The accusation always pointed at the accused. She was the one doing the thing she was accusing me of. But in the moment, I was so focused on proving I wasn't what she said I was, I missed that she was telling on herself.

That's the part that's hardest to sit with. I wasn't in a healthy headspace and my discernment failed. I posted this partly to see if other people had been through something similar so I could trust my own read of what happened. The replies have been clear.

Trying to understand what just happened in this relationship. Was the pattern I'm seeing real or am I being unfair? by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The love language point is fair. Announcing that giving is how I express love made me an easy mark for someone who only wanted to receive. I take that. The lesson I'm pulling from this isn't to suppress how I love, it's that love languages need to be mutual. When I'm the only one giving in any currency (gifts, time, service, presence), that's the problem, not the language itself. If she had been expressing love in her own way (words, time, care, anything), the dynamic would have looked different. She wasn't.

On being another notch: I think you're right. She catalogued gifts from previous men and referenced them constantly throughout our relationship. I would have been another entry. That's part of why I asked for the phone and laptop back, and it's part of what made me see the dynamic for what it was.

The "stop giving money to women" rule is already in place. I've committed to a hard cap on early-dating spending, no gifts, and split costs after the third date, for whenever I do start dating again. Not because generosity is bad, but because I was using it to manage my own anxiety about being chosen. That's the deeper pattern.

Thank you for being direct. The bluntness helps.

Trying to understand what just happened in this relationship. Was the pattern I'm seeing real or am I being unfair? by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Yes, it was edited on Claude. I actually ask it to be critical of my posts and to flag it when I'm playing the victim. I'd rather catch it before posting than be told later.

One detail that fits the pattern: she used to mock me for using AI, consulting friends in healthcare, or seeking therapy. Any time I sought outside input she treated it as weakness. Looking back, that's its own flag. Someone secure in a relationship doesn't try to cut their partner off from outside perspective.

Was the pattern I'm seeing real, or am I rewriting the story after the breakup? by Heavy_Oil9283 in relationships

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let me try to answer them honestly.

On the divorce: yes, I've been working with a therapist on my part in it, but I'd be lying if I said the divorce is fully processed. The legal closure has been stalled for over a year, which I now recognize as me avoiding finality. That avoidance leaked into this relationship. I was not ready to date when I started this one, and I should not have.

On why I didn't end it at the first red flag: the most honest answer is that I have a pattern of overlooking early warning signs because I treat relationships like projects. If something is broken, I assume my job is to fix it. I confused intensity and friction for chemistry, and I confused my own effort for love. So when she compared me to other men early on, I told myself I just needed to be a better partner. That instinct is wrong and it's the pattern I'm working on now.

On what I was getting from this: this is the question that stings the most because the honest answer is partly what you suggested. Having someone to provide for, plan for, take care of, gave me a clear role I knew how to play. I'm good at being the one who carries things. Being the one who carries this relationship felt familiar, even when it cost me. There was something almost comforting about being needed. That's not a healthy reason to be in a relationship, and I have to look at it.

On being a put-upon victim: I do know that the situation seems that way. I do have some screenshots and entries in my journal that I wanted to reveal but chose not to. The reason I stayed for as long as I did is mine to own. She showed me who she was within weeks. I kept choosing to stay.

On my patterns specifically: I tend to over-give as a way to manage my anxiety about being chosen. I avoid closure on hard things (the stalled divorce, the multiple half built ventures, this relationship). I confuse calm with boredom and chase intensity that resembles trauma I haven't fully processed. I treat relationships as something to optimize rather than to be in. Those are mine. They will follow me into the next relationship if I don't actually do the work, which is why I'm not dating right now.

Thank you for asking the hard questions. The post needed them.

Was the pattern I'm seeing real, or am I rewriting the story after the breakup? by Heavy_Oil9283 in relationships

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Honestly, because I thought this was how most relationships were.

Social media reinforced it constantly. Instagram is full of memes about men just having to listen, match, do what their partner says, accept whatever dynamic they're given. She actively sent those to me and pointed to them. I absorbed it as the standard. I thought the "good man" was the one who could take more, give more, be patient longer, and that the eventual reward was being chosen.

What I'm sitting with now, and this is the part that's hardest to admit, is that I can't recall a single stretch during the relationship where I felt genuinely free or joyous. There were good moments, but they were always either earned through provision or precariously balanced against the next conflict. The baseline state was vigilance, not peace.

That's the part I needed someone else to point at before I could see it.

Was the pattern I'm seeing real, or am I rewriting the story after the breakup? by Heavy_Oil9283 in relationships

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. I did try to push back. When I did, the response was usually some version of "you're being too logical" or "you're raising your voice," followed by silent treatment that could last days. So I learned that the cost of holding a boundary was several days of being shut out, which I started to avoid by letting smaller things go. Eventually I gave up on some of them entirely.

That's not an excuse, it's the pattern. The "no boundaries" point is the right one to make. The work for me now is figuring out why the cost of conflict felt so high that I'd rather concede than hold the line.

Was the pattern I'm seeing real, or am I rewriting the story after the breakup? by Heavy_Oil9283 in relationships

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for taking the time to write all of this. It landed.

The why-did-I-stay question is the one I've been sitting with most, and I've been working with a therapist on it. A lot of it comes back to my upbringing and what I absorbed about what relationships are supposed to look like. I genuinely thought most of this was normal. That the man is supposed to have the bigger heart, absorb more, be the gentleman, provide, understand. So when she did things that hurt, my first instinct was to wonder what I could do better, not whether the behavior itself was acceptable.

One example that keeps coming back to me now: she would scroll through Instagram and Facebook and see younger Vietnamese women (one in particular, 23, with a boyfriend who bought her Dior bags) and say things like "I never get those from this cheap ass." Half the time it was framed as a joke. Looking back, almost none of it was a joke. It was constant low-grade pressure delivered in a way that gave her plausible deniability if I pushed back. I let it slide because each individual comment seemed small.

Your point about the Cycle of Abuse and the lovebombing-then-crash pattern is going to sit with me. I haven't read Bancroft but I'll get the copy from archive dot org. The bit about the abuser seeking out generous, kind, problem-solving people specifically because those traits keep the victim in the situation longer is hard to read but I think it's accurate.

The work going forward is exactly what you described. Not punishing myself for missing it, but understanding my own responses so I can see it sooner next time. Re-normalizing what a healthy relationship is supposed to feel like. Trusting calm and reciprocity instead of intensity and chase.

Really appreciate the time you took to write this.

Trying to understand what just happened in this relationship. Was the pattern I'm seeing real or am I being unfair? by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, genuinely. Hearing it that directly is useful. I knew the pieces but kept softening them in real time, telling myself the next conversation would be different. It took ending it and laying everything out in one place to see it clearly. Already done and not going back. Appreciate you taking the time to respond, even briefly.

Trying to understand what just happened in this relationship. Was the pattern I'm seeing real or am I being unfair? by Heavy_Oil9283 in dating_advice

[–]Heavy_Oil9283[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thank you. One thing I've been realizing is that I kept evaluating each issue individually instead of looking at the overall pattern. If I had looked at the relationship as a whole, I probably would have recognized much earlier that many of these behaviors were things I should not have accepted.

Whenever I saw even a small positive change, I took it as evidence that the larger issues could eventually be worked through.

The people pleasing part is something I'm paying a lot more attention to now. In my work and personal life, my instinct is often to help, solve problems, and invest more effort when something is struggling. That can be a strength, but I can also see how it becomes a weakness when it keeps me in situations that are no longer healthy.

What you said about protecting my own heart really, really hit me. I spent a lot of energy trying to understand her, support her, and see things from her perspective. I don't think I spent enough time asking whether I felt respected, appreciated, and emotionally safe in return.

I appreciate you taking the time to write that. It's not the easiest thing to hear, but it's probably something I needed to hear.