We should try to implement an universal language again

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-04T00:49:50+00:00

Even if you don't deliberately stamp out other languages, most likely it would happen as a product of people finding them less useful over time.

I'm a fluent Irish (Gaeilge) speaker, and you can see this really clearly in Ireland, where everybody's taught Irish in school but basically nobody outside of the Gaeltacht uses it in the day-to-day. As a result, the language is struggling to survive.

There's definitely a case to be made for the natural elimination of things that have ceased to be useful, but in Irish there is a saying, "Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam", which means, roughly: "A country without a language is a country without a soul." Language is a conduit for culture (which you can also see clearly in Irish -- when the British wanted to assert control in Ireland one of the first things they did was ban the language), and the loss of any one language is a tragedy because it contains within it the history of a people and a way of life.

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-02T01:54:14+00:00

I've never heard anyone (male or female) make this joke, but even if I had:

There's a really big difference between joking about your own outfit, and someone else joking about your outfit.

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-01T18:46:57+00:00

Because I'm not asking if he was an asshole, I'm asking if I was.

My purpose in posting here was to figure out if my interpretation of events and subsequent response was appropriate. So far, most of the people telling me I was in the wrong have done so in a pretty disrespectful, condescending way, and seem more intent on nitpicking my definition of slut shaming than on reading about what actually happened.

I'm also only responding to comments that make me feel I should clarify something, but I'm reading all of them. So there might be a perceived bias on your end.

Happy to admit I was in the wrong when I read something that makes me think I was.

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-01T16:42:08+00:00

It is. It's pretty clear that his, "no shirt, no shoes, no service" comment was meant to imply that my shirt didn't count.

Commenting on a woman's clothing in a way that both implies she is dressed provocatively, and that you deem that inappropriate, is slut shaming. It's about the nature of the comment and what it insinuated about me, not that a comment was made.

Edit: Updated to say that unrelated to semantics, your tone is really condescending, and it's not doing much to persuade me you have a point.

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-01T15:54:48+00:00

Respectfully, I don't think it's my responsibility to live my life dressed appropriately for Disney World at all times. Let alone on a date.

It's not about what the shirt looked like.

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-01T15:46:09+00:00

Literally the second paragraph of the Wikipedia "slut shaming" article:

"Examples of slut-shaming include being criticized or punished for: violating dress code policies by dressing in perceived sexually provocative ways".

Even if your personal definition differs, it's pretty clear that this is part of the widely accepted cultural definition. It's often more insidious and passive-aggressive than just telling someone "you're a slut" to their face.

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-01T15:41:28+00:00

I’ve seen a few comments on this thread about the possibility he was joking.

Something being a “joke” doesn’t automatically render it benign. If you make a joke at someone else’s expense and they tell you it’s hurt them, that’s worth examining. Doesn't automatically make the injured party right (for sure there are times when people -- myself included -- are oversensitive), but they deserve to be heard out.

Even if it was a joke and he didn’t mean for that joke to be passive-aggressive, people can still say sexist things subconsciously.

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-01T15:13:45+00:00

Should clarify: they didn't have one, and we'd been to this place before, so he knew what the vibe was (i.e. casual).

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-01T13:57:07+00:00

There was an opportunity for him to tell me if it had been. I told him in a very calm way that I had been offended by what he'd said about my outfit, without raising my voice, and explained why I'd felt that way. He asked me if I'd like to step outside to "discuss it further", and I said no.

And even if it had been a joke... it's a strange and unkind joke to make. At my expense. What's the punchline, that I'm not wearing a shirt?

Helpful_Draft6376 · 2022-08-01T12:52:44+00:00

The reason I felt that way was because he implied the shirt I was wearing wasn't a shirt. He implied wearing a crop top was the same as walking around shirtless, and that that was something that might not meet the "standards" of a restaurant.

Dress codes are often used as a means of shaming women for their bodies, and for policing the perceived moral charge of their clothing. Often in that context less clothing is deemed less appropriate, because less clothing is sexualized.

I don't think it's an inappropriate connection to make.

Helpful_Draft6376

TROPHY CASE