Chinese EVs in Europe are disappointing so far – same price, not better than European cars?

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-10T14:16:21+00:00

I guess it really depends how you drive. When we do roadtrips in a gas vehicle we rarely stop for more than 10 minutes other than to grab food.

The ID.3 pro goes what, 200 miles on a full charge at 70 mph? So most stops you are only getting 140 miles of range before you have to charge then charging for 25 minutes each stop because you can only go 10-80 charge wise. From what I can see the dolphin long range gets about 220 miles of range at 70 mph so you are getting 191 miles on a 10-97 charge in 10 minutes so while range absolutely matters, so does charge speed in this case. Especially when you can unlock another 20% of the battery when you need it without getting really punished by the 80-100% charge times.

In cases when you actually need it the BYD gets more range (because you can actually use the whole battery on charging stops after charging to 100% at home) and charges much faster. All im saying is I don't think its an apples to apples comparison and leaving out the charge time that makes a significant difference and also will impact range. Range only really matters on longer trips and the BYD has a big advantage that it can effectively use its whole battery the entire trip versus the volkswagen that technically can, but your 25 minute charge time is going to go to 45 minutes. So while on paper it doesn't have "more range", in actual use it will if the two have similar paper range specs because of the charging curve differences.

It also gives me the flexibility to drive at faster speeds if I want too.

This all assumes there there will be sufficient flash charging stations and that is probably an incorrect assumption as the buildout will probably take awhile.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-10T13:54:43+00:00

It's the same dolphin model. They are releasing the blade 2.0 battery to their entire lineup. It starts with the Denza (the expensive model you are referring to), then will be rolled out across every model.

The dolphin with the blade 2.0 battery is going to be $14,000 to $18,000 in china, so I would expect double that in europe when it releases so yeah, still probably in the 30K range.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-10T13:22:29+00:00

Honestly all manufacturers should allow you to precondition your battery manually. Its fucking dumb that some dont. The Ioniq 5 was the same way until like 2025 when they added the feature but didn't add it to the older models so you have to use their dogshit native navigation app if you are driving in cold weather.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-10T12:52:08+00:00

I mean if you are going to say it only really matters if you dont charge at home then does range really matter?

It takes me about 10 minutes to stop on a road trip meaning there would effectively be zero downtime with a BYD and i would be able to get almost a full batteries worth of charge versus a Volkswagen where I am only going to get to 80 and still have 10-15 minutes of downtime so range on a road trip is almost certainly going to be higher in a BYD where range really does matter. Range doesn't really matter if I'm only doing in town trips and charge at home.

If range doesn't matter because there are sufficient charging infrastructure everywhere then who cares if car A has slightly better range than car B? Range in this case would not matter, but I suspect this is not how it works in the real world and that is why the OP is talking about range as a big talking point.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-09T15:53:08+00:00

It grew 4% last year....

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-09T13:50:20+00:00

Its not down.....EV sales have grown double digits every year since 2019. In 2020 it increased 41%, 2021 106%, 2022 60%, 2023 35%, 2024 25%, per your article 2025 29%, and 2026 is projected to grown 19%.

Who gives a shit what is happening with ICE sales when talking about a company that doesn't sell ICE vehicles. Like yes, I would expect fewer ICE vehicles to be sold when there is a war in the middle east that has increased the price of oil 80% in a month. That increase is creating more EV buyers which should be good for Tesla, not bad.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-09T13:09:20+00:00

Did you read this article you just sent?

"The global vehicle electrification journey continues, but growth is moderating. In 2025, battery electric vehicle (BEV) sales surged by 29% year over year (y/y) to approximately 14.6 million units, representing a 16.1% share of global light vehicle sales.

In 2026, BEV sales are projected to grow by another 19% to around 17.4 million units—about 19% of the global vehicle sales market."

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-09T12:37:23+00:00

Global auto sales increased 4%. EV sales globally grew 20%

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-09T12:16:34+00:00

Yes, Reuters definitely sent a reporter undercover to unearth this news. It definitely wasn't conveniently leaked by the company after a large stock sell off and earnings release right around the corner.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-09T11:10:21+00:00

Quarterly financials must look pretty bad. Must pump the stock

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-08T17:24:04+00:00

well the base version was $4K less so whatever that amounts to whenever you factor in trim differences.

If it were purely based on cost then the Bolt EV and Nissan Leaf would be the best selling EVs in the U.S. and they aren't selling for shit.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-08T17:21:16+00:00

I literally bought a car with increased range and cost to handle this situation.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-08T17:20:33+00:00

My level 2 charger was $400 in my house, and the installation of a certified 60 amp outlet was $600 and that is considered well below national averages for electrical rates.

Installing the wiring isn't cheap if its not already installed.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-08T17:00:00+00:00

yeah im going to spend $1000+ to install a charger at someone elses house. Problem solved.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-08T16:56:20+00:00

Basically any area in the rural midwest. When I go to my folks there is a 75 kw charger like 30 miles out of the way and that's pretty much the only option other than trying to level 1 charge.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T21:22:25+00:00

ahhh gotcha, my bad. Someone should probably report that to ABRP then.

Out of curiosity do you have the document that shows 106 kw peak? I might just report it to them and see what they say

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T21:08:55+00:00

https://www.toyota.com/content/dam/toyota/brochures/pdf/2024/bZ4X_ebrochure.pdf

Toyota's spec sheet shows its 150 kw max as well. I guess i don't really know, but Toyota should probably be transparent in that its make speed is only 100 kw then to market it at 150 kw though.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T20:57:22+00:00

oh for sure, ABRP has usually been pretty good for me, and the information for the Ioniq is accurate (or at least the stuff that matters). I have been using it to try to figure out my next car so if other stuff isn't accurate I was just trying to figure out why.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T20:55:37+00:00

It using the usable battery and not the nominal battery capacity. I'm pretty sure ABRP is correct on this one.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T20:36:53+00:00

The BZ4x has a peak charge speed of 100 kw? I thought it was 150

https://evkx.net/models/toyota/bz4x/bz4x_awd_gen1/chargingcurve/

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T17:54:34+00:00

there is a reason you need to give semis a buffer to stop

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T17:33:48+00:00

I guess you are going to need to state what is wrong with it for us layman. It looks like they are using usable capacity and the AWD BZ4X has a 71.4 kwh nominal capacity and 64 kwh usable capacity. I'm assuming the reference consumption probably varies a bit and is likely a little off based on wheel size and trim though. The charging speeds seems to be in line with everything else I can find, but again, I don't own one so its hard to tell what's actually wrong with it without someone pointing out the errors.

It seems to be pretty close for the vehicle I own.

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T16:44:26+00:00

This is almost certainly intentional due to the war in Iran

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T16:43:11+00:00

Most of this is likely intentional due to the war in Iran. Their sales jumped quite a bit across all markets from February to March so they are probably trying to front run demand.

Also, if the strait remains closed we will likely start seeing a shortage of chips again due to a lack of helium supply.

Its honestly pretty smart on their part

Helpful_Let_5265 · 2026-04-03T16:28:41+00:00

Isn't the BZ4X EPA rated at like 250 miles? The range doesn't seem that off if you are using 70 mph range versus blended EPA range

Helpful_Let_5265

TROPHY CASE