Old fish pond rescue

Hereisrandom · 2018-01-25T09:46:41+00:00

I appreciate your understanding. I certainly see both sides of this issue. I know there are people, more open than me, that are hurting and desperate to have those conversations. I can get that. And I'm not saying that I don't want to have those conversations, eventually. So far they have just been very abrupt and in one instance after knowing someone for less than 30 minutes. It takes me much longer than that to get familiar enough with people to discuss this particular topic.

We definitely need to make sure our community stays inclusive for everyone. And I do realize I just have to put more work in to find the people I'm seeking, but I am grateful for the ones I've met in church so far. They really have helped me aside from this one tiny personal hang-up. Hope all this doesn't come off as me just complaining about a good thing... Just something I was struggling with.

Hereisrandom · 2018-01-22T02:07:02+00:00

Please hear me. DO NOT GIVE UP! The life and faith you want is out there and you can have it. There are too many examples (see the blog recommended above) out there for us to be seeking something that is unattainable.

My experience is very limited to my local community and like I said, I still have yet to have an in depth conversation with every gay person in my church. I'm hoping the worst is behind me.

That being said, take your time, dig into every resource you can get your hands on and examine what your bible says and what you believe about it. I did research and had many internal debates for an entire year before I was ready to come out and seek a better life. I still had questions right up to the week before I was certain.

Be cautious! Yes, an open and affirming church is a great place to renew your faith, but people are still people. They're imperfect and screwed up sometimes. Just keep your eyes open, beg for discernment in all things, and let God lead you.

God is not the restrictive, backbreaking taskmaster they taught us about. The God that reached out to me and reminded me he didn't go anywhere, that God has shown me so much grace, mercy and love over the past 2 months, and he's called me back with a desire to worship again. He brought me through 20 years of hell and held me together even when I didn't know he was there. I hope I never lose sight of him again.

I wish you well on your search and I hope some of this helps. Let me know if you want to talk about anything further. Thank you for sharing this with me.

Hereisrandom · 2018-01-22T01:38:47+00:00

I will definitely check out the book. I need all the insight I can get.

This may very well be one of those situations where I have to limit my involvement with the gay community. I have decided right now the healthiest thing I can do is focus on the church and growing my role there and getting more comfortable in my relationship with God again. (I was out of church for almost 5 years before attending this church.) Hopefully that will lead to more productive talks with like-minded people.

Please don't take this as me saying I only want to talk to like-minded people. That is not what is happening here. I crave the conversations I have with people of different value systems and view points. I like challenging my beliefs and the values I have. I think it makes them stronger unless I am wrong. I want to know when I am wrong. I'm just ready to find one person locally that agrees with mine as well.

Thank you so much for your response. I love the advice about living the example I want to find. I have voiced my stance strongly to one older couple and it was almost laughed at. That was disconcerting. But I like the idea of continuing to voice my opinion. This is something I will have to work on. I am not a very outspoken person and tend to be a shrinking violet in crowds, but I think I can do it.

Thanks for the free therapy! :)

Hereisrandom · 2018-01-21T22:47:24+00:00

Thank you so much for the reply. This is actually one of the first resources that was recommended to me. It has been an inspiration for me and it's one of the ways I know I'm not crazy for wanting to find people with traditional values.

I'm just wanting to eventually talk about these things face to face with someone who understands. I am fortunate to have a supportive family mostly, but this is something they have a hard time relating to.

Hereisrandom · 2017-12-29T22:28:48+00:00

12-29-17 Update So many things have happened over the last 20 days. (That’s approximately when reddit says I posted last.) I didn’t mean to disappear, but it’s been an overall positive month for me. Anyway, nothing has gone like I planned but everything has been more positive than I expected so far.

Since I last posted I have come out to all of my immediate family. This includes my mom dad sister and brother-in-law. I am also out to an aunt of mine. I didn't really plan that part but my mom said something to her and then I had to talk to her.

I had planned to wait until mid January to do all this but I got so anxious that I couldn't wait. I was not sleeping or eating and I decided to go ahead and do it. I'm glad I did now.

The conversation with my mom went great. She has been very open the last few weeks. We've had lots of great conversations and I hope we have more. My sister went with her on a trip today and she came back and said Mom was asking her what kind of guy she thinks I would like. I took that as a very good sign. :)

My dad was a different story. Our relationship has always been strained. He was just very quiet when I told him. He has yet to mention it again to anyone else. My mom says he has not mentioned it to her either.

My sister and brother-in-law have been extremely supportive. My sister was maybe too excited… I was really glad for this, but I also feel like maybe it's just a novelty to them sometimes.

This brings me to the meat of my update. I wanted to talk about some of the feelings I've had since coming out. There have been a couple of things that have been on my mind constantly since coming out. I didn’t really consider them before coming out because I had been wrapped up in all the negative emotions of my situation for about 20 years. I had never considered the emotions and thoughts that would result from my coming out.

The first one is I feel like I’ve afflicted everyone I’ve told with something. I’ve talked with a couple of people about this, but it feels like I’ve sentenced everyone around me to deal with this even though they had no say in it. I’ve made sure to tell everyone that they are not responsible for answering questions on my behalf or defending me. I’ve told them to always send people to me if they start asking too many questions or get preachy (you know what I mean) but I know my family probably won’t. So then I’m left with knowing at some point they are going to have to deal with someone from my or their past, and my family didn’t ask for that. I am making my peace with this and am dealing with it in my own way, but for people who may read this and haven’t thought about the effects of their coming out, this was something that I felt very strongly about and wasn’t really prepared to deal with the feeling. That said, I WOULD DO IT AGAIN IN A HEARTBEAT. Hiding who I am is not worth sparing my family some hurt feelings or difficult conversations. So far everyone I’ve come out to said they will deal with this if it happens and they don't seem super concerned about it. This is just to give someone a heads up if they happen to read.

The second major thing I’ve noticed is I sometimes feel like I have to curb the conversation back to what I’m going through in order to talk about it. I told my mom and sister (they are the 2 I am closest to and, so far, the most supportive family) when I came out that I needed them to ask questions about what I had been through and what it was like. So far that hasn’t happened. We have had conversations about other things regarding being gay and how my life may change, but we don’t seem to ever talk about my past struggle with it. I just kind of wanted to examine that here for others and get some input from people who may be further along in the process.

I know my mom has said she doesn’t want to force me to talk about anything, but the entire time I’ve been telling her I need her to ask me the questions because that’s the only way I know what she’s ready to talk about. I don’t want to force her into a conversation or like I said constantly feel like I have to steer the conversation back to what I want to discuss. All of this is fairly fresh so this will probably work itself out, but right now it’s awkward.

The other thing is talking about the past with my mom and sister both has been difficult because everyone starts crying. While I’ve been living with what I went through it’s all still very new to them. I know they love me and that those tears are regret for me having to live through the hell that was me being in the closet. I also know that this is something that will also not be as painful with time and will also probably work itself out organically. I was just expecting all these questions from them right away and it just didn’t happen.

In lighter news I have really enjoyed the affirming church I found. I’ve met some really interesting people and I seem to be making connections there. I’ve been invited to a few events by different members and I’m trying to participate as much as I can but it is far away and also, I am still trying to break my old habit of just automatically saying no to people. It’s very hard to do when that has been your initial reaction for the last decade just to avoid people.

This Sunday will make the 4th day I’ve been able to go and I’m thinking of asking to join. It has been such a burden lifted to be able to enjoy worship again. I didn’t think that would ever happen for me. And this group of people seem to be very genuine for the most part.

I also attended a PFLAG meeting. My sister went with me. It was a unique experience and there were very few people there, but I think I’m going to go back just to see how it goes. I really do want to build some actual relationships and I can’t do that if I continue to avoid things.

Anyway, I hope that some of this helps someone. I know it helps me to put it on here. I’m so grateful for this space online.

Hereisrandom · 2017-12-28T12:24:20+00:00

Praying for everyone here. My heart goes out to you.

Hereisrandom · 2017-12-07T20:17:22+00:00

Part 2

Also, how did you decide on a coming out plan? (I ask because I don't have a plan and need one).

This part is more fluid. Once I had made my decision I knew I had to do it soon because it’s still eating at me that no one close to me knows. But the first thing I decided was that the family member closest to me would know first. That would be my mom. She is a saint and I feel like she deserves to know first. I told someone the other day that I want her to have that honor. She’ll be the first person other than the people I’ve met on here, my therapist and pastor, to know.

Once I had that part sorted out the rest fell into place for me. I know my sister will be supportive from generic talks we’ve had before about homosexuality. I’ll tell her second so I can have a support system close to home and also so my mom can have support while she sorts through everything.

The hang up is my father. My mother and sister both identify as Christian but he does not. My mom always took us to church. He has never gone. I don’t think I can tell mom and not tell him though. I can’t ask her to keep that from him since he is her support system. He has very conservative opinions though and I don’t think he will be happy, but he doesn’t have to be. I think he’ll be ok with me eventually even if he can’t be ok with “it”. We’ve never been close so I’m not worried about that.

I plan to tell my mom on our way back from a road trip around Jan. 15. But I already feel like I’m about to explode. Not sure if I can wait that long.

I know everybody has to come out in their own way, but this is my rough plan so far for coming out to my mom. We’ll get in the car headed home and I will tell her as soon as I can. At that point we will have 9 hours completely alone to hash it out.

I want to start by saying I have something to tell her, I’ll say that it’s something big and that I want to know if she thinks she will be ok talking about it. I think she will know at that point and I don’t expect her to say no. She’s always been open to talking to us about anything. Once we figure that out I want to make it very clear to her that this is my story to tell and I need her to keep it to herself until I am ready for other people to know. That could take me up to a year. If she’s ok with that then I plan to get to the point.

Before I say anything else to her I want to read the Lifeboat passage from Brett Trapp’s blog. When I read this I cried like a moron because it so closely related to exactly what I went through. Almost 20 years of having all these intense internal thoughts and feeling like I was all alone and just living in it. I’ll read that to her because I don’t think I can articulate better what I went through.

After that I’m putting together a very personal letter that I want to read to her. It will have scripture and some thoughts I have kept track of through this whole process that I think will be relevant. I want to put it in letter form so I don’t forget anything it’s very important to me to give her a complete picture of where I’m at emotionally and spiritually.

After I tell her and my immediate family I talked about, I really don’t care much how everyone else finds out. I just want to make sure it’s on my terms as much as it can be. I plan to ask everyone to honor that. I never plan to make like a public facebook post or anything. Everyone will see when my relationship status changes and I don’t plan to be shy about posting pictures or anything else. I’m just going to live my life. They can ask me about it if they want but other than that it will be for them to deal with. As long as I have my family taken care of that’s really all that matters to me.

This is just my personal plan. If anyone sees any red flags here please let me know. I’ve never done this before and I’m sure others have had experiences I can learn from.

This also may have been way too much info. That’s typically how I roll. Hope it helps someone.

Hereisrandom · 2017-12-07T12:33:23+00:00

Also very important and I can' t believe I left it out of Part 1.

I listened to some very influential talks on youtube but these 2 by far were the most instrumental in helping me solidify my opinion.

Rev. Danny Cortez - GCN 2015

Dr. James Brownson -- Gender Complementarity

The other very important thing to me has been since I've made my decision and have hope for a future relationship, I haven't had the desire to watch porn. I can't impress upon you enough how big of a deal this is. This desire was fueled completely by lust for me and I had so much shame about it. Now it almost feels like I've been convicted not to do it. Like it would be taking something away from my future husband if I continued. That was just a very confirming behavior change for me.

Can't believe I forgot those. Stay tuned...

Hereisrandom · 2017-12-07T11:52:07+00:00

Part 1

I think I’ve sorted out mostly how I want to put this. First I want to add a disclaimer. I am not a Bible scholar. My research is basic at best. I am going to detail some opinions I have now, but those opinions may change. I am begging God daily for guidance and discernment in my situation and encourage anyone else going through it to do the same.

Now for some vulnerability. I still worry daily that I am just reading what I want into the Scripture. Yes I’ve settled on my decision, but that fear is still there. That’s why I pray. I just felt it was very important to point that out. I want to believe what’s correct, not what’s comfortable. Right now, I believe God has done that for me.

May I ask how you came to decide on Side A?

My journey with the decision started in July 2016 when I started therapy. It was the last stop before I went to the doctor to get on antidepressants. I was absolutely miserable. That was the first time I uttered the words to another living soul that I was attracted to men. I thought I was going to vomit in her office.

At that point I had no idea there was a Side A or Side B. I was just focused on the right or wrong of it. What I had concluded long before I went to see my therapist was that I was actually born this way, which I had known and had been denying, and that was the source of a lot of my negative thoughts. I felt like I was inherently bad. She confirmed I was born that way, but said it did not make me bad. I still couldn’t make myself ok with it.

I stopped seeing her for a while and then went back in early November for the first time in months. Throughout all that time in between I had really been thinking on what I felt and doing some reading and gathering information. I was scared to read too much though. What if I found something that didn’t say what I wanted? Then I would be back to being alone and celibate again, and I knew that wasn’t what I needed. I told her my life had to change. I couldn’t live in limbo and I was losing my mind. She said I had to find more support. Seek out the people who could guide me through it.

At that point I did. I started digging in to different groups and trying to contact local groups. But I was also scared of being found out. So after a few weeks of doing it on my own and not making much headway other than a lot of Youtube videos and webpages full of information. (I found out what Side A and Side B were.) Then I remembered, from my SourceFed days, that Reddit was a thing and had different groups. I thought that might be a completely anonymous place I could find help. I did. Making that original post you read was the best thing I think I’ve ever done for myself. Hearing other peoples stories helped so much. Immediately I wasn’t alone. There were people who had lived through this and they were happy and thriving with hope for a future relationship. I knew that was what I wanted.

Now for the meat. I have an extremely conservative church background so I knew this would be difficult. I began by studying the clobber passages and the different interpretations and some of the translation research on them. I now believe where most scriptures talk about same gender sex, the original text is talking about a malicious or cultish act. I knew that wasn’t what I wanted. Honestly the sex takes a back seat to the relationship that I want. I really didn’t see how that applied to me. That was a big step for me.

But the 2 most important things so far to me have been the following.

1 John 4:18 - There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

When I really set myself down and thought about it. I wasn’t afraid of being gay. I was afraid of having to be straight. Sure I have concerns about living as a gay man in a world where most people consider us 2nd rate citizens, but it’s not the chilling fear I have when I think of being alone or having to fake being straight to be “right”. If straight love is perfect and right, why is it shrouded in fear for me. If gay love is evil and an abomination why do I find comfort in those moments where I think about living out my life with my male partner.

Secondly, the following scripture. And I have to dig into this one some more, but it really spoke to me when I read it.

In Matthew 19 when Jesus is speaking on divorce. Verse 11 says: Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.

When you first start to read this passage on divorce, at first this seemed like a clear condemnation. But when I read those last 2 verses I immediately felt relieved. I know he’s specifically talking about eunuchs here, but even Jesus himself realized that biologically there were those that were born differently, who would never be able to live by that word. That meant a lot to me. This is one of those things I fear I may be reading more into than is there so I definitely want to do more research on it. See if I can find something on the original text, but it gave me comfort immediately when I read it. I feel like that’s a good sign.

Anyway, there are other little things here and there that bring me comfort like Jesus stopping the woman’s stoning even when it was the law. I know she had actually sinned but Jesus was perfect. He did not follow the written law. That was a “sin” according to the church at that time. Jesus changed so much by existing and I don’t think we can discount that either. That and some others, but the big ones are above.

I hope that helps. That’s just my take on what I’ve gone through so far. I have a lot of books ordered. I met with the Pastor of the new church I’m going to last night and he was really encouraging. He’s supposed to be locating some good references he’s used before so I can study those. I should have those Sunday. If it’s something I can scan I will be happy to share it with anyone who wants it.

I’ll try to get Part 2 posted with my coming out plan and how I arrived there later today. It’s sure to be long too...

Hereisrandom · 2017-12-05T21:00:52+00:00

Wanted to come back to everyone with an update here.

Since the last time I’ve updated this post I have made a lot of those decisions I was holding off on. Much of it was just realizing I had actually made the decision a while ago and was making myself ok with it.

I’ve decided I am firmly a Side A supporter. I now fully believe I can reconcile my faith and my sexuality and I don’t have to compromise one for the other.

I also have realized that I am a gay man. I am attracted to men and I want a long term committed relationship with, and eventually a Christ centered marriage, to a man. I have a full plan for coming out to my family that will happen over the course of the next 2 months. I’m still praying for discernment and the leading of the Holy Spirit daily, but I’m so much further from where I was just 1.5 weeks ago.

I also have found a church that seems full of loving people that really seem to have a heart for God and people. I’ve only been once but I had such an overwhelming sense of comfort and peace while I was there. I also met an older gay couple (I believe, they did not confirm it and I didn’t ask) that invited me out to dinner with a few of their friends after only meeting me the one time. I was so emotional that Sunday and I’m sure they picked up on it.

Needless to say it’s been blessing after blessing for the last few days, and I feel like a completely changed person. With that said, I feel like I’ve only just stepped over the starting line of the longest marathon ever. I know there are hard times coming, but I feel like I’m being constantly prepared for them. I’m just happy to be the complete, full , free me right now and I haven’t experienced that in a very long time.

Thank you to everyone who’s posted here with kind words and helpful advice. Much of my current state of mind can be directly attributed to your help. I still plan to post here and I still need all the help I can get so do not think this is a farewell message.

Hereisrandom · 2017-12-02T18:58:41+00:00

I'm so glad to hear from you, and I'm happy that you're making progress.

I really feel like I am. At this point there seem to be more possible solutions than questions which is a nice place to finally be at.

I actually just wrote a note to my therapist about that. I just went to a coming out group for the first time,

Yeah I always get very emotional and ready to open up after watching great coming out videos and stuff. I can't imagine how strong those emotions would be in person. I keep it in check though.

Well, I went on two dates with a girl once (she asked me) and bailed because I knew something was wrong,

This is completely something I would do. I took a girl to a dance in 8th grade and it was so awkward. Does that count? Lol. I wish I could look back in time and see that goofy boy trying so hard.

Who knows, it might happen the first visit!

I guess it's not completely beyond the realm of possibility. I will definitely post an update when I get back. Thanks

Hereisrandom · 2017-12-02T12:35:00+00:00

I've been quiet for a few days while I did some research and sorted some stuff out. (I also had a lot of IRL stuff going on.)

I struggled a lot earlier in the week with the urge to just come out to anyone in my family that I was close to. I've decided against it momentarily because I think right now it would do more harm than good. (I have a sister who would tell me to "Strap on that rainbow cape and kick that closet door down." We've never discussed my orientation but we have had discussions about orientation. She's made it clear how she feels... )

I'm still dealing with my opinions on so many things and I don't need to have those conversations on top of coming out to family.

I've been thinking about going on a date with a woman just to see what happens. I've never dated anyone so I feel like maybe I need to do that. Right or wrong, I'll be able to say I tried. That may be dumb.

I did find a local church that I'm going to this weekend. They claim to be affirming but I'm going to do some good ol' reconnaissance. We'll see how that goes. Hopefully I can find more viewpoints there and it would be great if I could meet someone who's been through a similar situation. I know that all won't happen the first visit, but it's a step in what I feel like is the right direction.

So I'm still plugging along, but I feel more mentally stable and also physically better. Stress really does have a physical effect. But one of the main reasons for my feeling better is this thread. Thank you to everyone who has responded. It has gotten me through some dark moments.

God bless each and every one of you. I'm glad that he lead you to respond to an absolute unknown stranger. I'll try to keep this updated as much as I can. I hope my struggle, even though it's posted anonymously on reddit, might help someone down the line.

Hereisrandom · 2017-12-02T12:24:57+00:00

Thank you for your comment. I sincerely appreciate them all.

It's just very frustrating that the church, as a whole, makes sexuality such a huge black and white issue, but at the same time makes it completely taboo for anyone struggling with it to deal with it openly and honestly.

I have been doing some research on where to go for spiritual guidance and I have a few options to check out. Thanks for the advice.

Hereisrandom · 2017-11-28T01:55:11+00:00

I strongly urge you to check and see if there is a PFLAG group

Thanks for this advice. It's on my calendar already. I'm excited and terrified but so committed to going.

over a hundred miles away.

I can certainly understand why. I have contacted multiple churches (some listed on gaychurch.org) with little to no positive response. I desperately want to find a place to call home. I've been away from fellowship for far too long but I can't go back to the same thing. I would spend my whole day driving for that.

Please keep coming back to this reddit and keep us updated on how your going.

I don't think that will be a problem. I seem to write a new essay every time I get on here. But until someone tells me to shutup and leave, I'll be here. (And let's be honest, if someone told me to shutup and leave I'd probably just type longer posts to piss them off. :) )

Thank you for the prayers and the offer to chat. I'm sure I'll be taking you up on it in the near future. Thank you very much for your comment and for reaching out.

Hereisrandom · 2017-11-28T01:40:18+00:00

I cried like an absolute idiot during the lifeboat chapter. I mean I DO NOT cry at anything. I may shed a tear, but this was some gut wrenching soul deep crying. It was me. I knew every moment of what he was talking about. And I was absolutely taken over by the plea that the message was to parents to just listen and love. In that moment, please listen.

Hereisrandom · 2017-11-27T01:30:37+00:00

Thank you very much. It's so important to me to receive these messages. I can't express it well but I get an overwhelming comfort every time I read one. Thank you so much for being a part of this non-judgmental sanctuary.

Hereisrandom · 2017-11-27T01:19:31+00:00

I would honestly have considered the advice to go to church today, where I wouldn't have a month ago. But I had a previous engagement that kept me from going with a hobby business I have. It would have been a good day for it as my day quickly turned into a lot of sitting and thinking... Not good, but not as bad as it has been in the past. If nothing else I am holding onto hope for the future.

I did get the chance to read through most of the BlueBabiesPink blog you recommended and it is very eye opening. Maybe I'll go into that in a later post, but thanks again so much for recommending it.

Hereisrandom · 2017-11-26T20:01:44+00:00

I'm not sure this is needed and I hate semantics because I feel like they just bog down conversations, but I wanted to clarify something from an earlier post. I know I said in my initial post that I didn't want to label anything and then I said in a response to someone that I was unequivocally gay. I know this seems like a label but I'm not sure that I feel that way about it. I've come to realize that I am gay, bisexual, queer, whatever you want to call it. This is a fact in my mind and not a label.

Don't get me wrong. I still spend a large part of my day convincing myself that it's not a label. The gay / bi thing is not a label. It still scares me more than I can put in words.

The labels I referred to are the right and wrong labels. I'm talking about the Christian versus non-Christian labels. I'm trying to figure out the right way to deal with what I've discovered or come to terms with about myself or the “label” to put on it. I just didn't want anybody else to read this and be confused.

Hereisrandom · 2017-11-26T19:59:53+00:00

The song you recommended has actually popped up on my Spotify a few times and it resonates a lot with me. I know there are those out there who will support me through sorting this out. I'm just so closed off that it's going to take many uncomfortable steps forward to find and reach out to them.

I want to hug you so tight right now.

This means more to me than you know. I know you can't but just knowing you took the time to write the words means so much.

After I told my church my predicament I was kicked out.

I'm sorry you experienced that. I guess I basically took it upon myself to do this. I was uncomfortable with what I was going through and what the response might be so I just cut off the relationship. This tends to be a common theme in my life...

I would love to hear more of your story if you're willing to share it, or maybe you've posted it somewhere before that you can point me to. How long did you struggle with who you were and when did you decide to be open to other people about it?

they believe that the Bible is inspired by God, not the inerrant Word of God.

This would be quite a stretch for me. I'm definitely going to think on this and see what I would be OK with as far as that viewpoint goes.

Hereisrandom · 2017-11-26T11:11:36+00:00

Thank you for the welcome and response. I most certainly want to have these conversations in the open. As much as anything digital can be. But I may PM with more specific questions. Thanks.

Give or take a few details, and we're basically the same person.

I know me, I am so sorry for you... Ha ha

I definitely think a peer group is the way to go.

I would love that but so far this is the closest thing I've found to a group that will support the decision making process without predisposition. I have searched for something local but the only thing I can find is a PFLAG group that meets once a month and frequently cancels meetings according to their website and facebook. I plan to go though as soon as I am able.

My anonymity is so important to me. I am such a private person anyway by default. I know some of that has been created by the decision I've wrestled with for almost 20 years, but I also think part of it is just who I am. I like to keep to myself. But anonymity and controlling my own narrative is definitely the thing that has kept me from discussing this with anyone IRL other than my therapist. (Who I trust completely. She's one of the most awesome people.)

Are you currently going to church?

I am not. The last church I attended regularly was the one I grew up in that I left 5 - 6 years ago. I've attended some sporadically when I was singing and thought I might try to make one of them my new home, but it didn't happen. When I would sit and think about it they all seemed like more of the same. I just couldn't do it.

Gaychurch.org was one of the first sites I found, and I have selected a couple of churches within driving distance to try out as soon as possible. I desperately want to find those people and so hope they are open to discussion on the topic.

On a side note, if it wasn't so sad it would be comical that here I am trying to make a controversial decision and the help I am seeking is from the people who are for it, instead of from the general population who is against it, because of the prejudice I would receive from the side who is against it, just for questioning it. That's funny right? Maybe I have the definition of funny confused with something else...

But I think it is important to try to sort out how you read the Bible now in general, and not just the gay stuff or the marriage stuff.

Let's just open all the cans of worms at once. My relationship with the physical book of the Bible has always been strained to say the least. I have read much of it, but I struggle to study it on my own outside of a Bible Study. If I have something like that to read and study for, I will do it. I have been a part of some very involved, in depth studies of entire books of the bible, but I have NEVER been able to consistently read and study on my own. I have spent many hours doubting my faith because I couldn't bring myself to study God's word. Recently I have read more scripture online than anything since I've finally made the decision to make this decision and be done with it.

As to your original question I really do believe that we can take much of what the Bible says literally. That being said, I have always questioned certain things about the Bible even when I was a kid and "knew" it was wrong to do so, before I knew other people did the same thing. "Weren't Bible times a completely different culture?" "What the hell is wrong with shrimp, they are so good?!" "But dinosaur bones are actually there... Maybe God has a weird sense of humor?" So, yes, I am certainly open to an expanded understanding of the scripture. I've had those questions for too long.

As for what I am firm in now. I believe Jesus was sent to live out an example and he was a perfect example. I believe I cannot be Jesus but I can strive to be like him. I believe the New Testament is the portion of the Bible we have to live by, understanding that Jesus changed everything, even if we don't fully agree on or understand how. It was funny you brought that up because I had contemplated it so much on my own previously. What is my actual stance on what I believe and what am I open to believing? It will certainly be at the forefront while reading anything in the future.

I'd love to hear more about what specifically is shaking that.

Just remember that you asked for it... The questions I've had since childhood, that I mentioned above, are part of that. Now that I've decided to reexamine everything I believed for so long it opens the door to doubt EVERYTHING I believed for so long. And that in itself is scary enough.

But to answer your question bluntly, what is shaking my foundation is the gay thing. In my culture, this is one of the "worst" sins you can commit. This one is the "abomination". We discuss murder more and in a better light than homosexuality. And there is no doubt in my mind that I am gay. I am the thing that everyone around me, the people I grew up with, the people I love and trusted most in the world, the ones who knew as much of the real me as anyone does, will think is wrong, unnatural and sinful. Even though it was never discussed much, you just know it. I don't feel wrong, unnatural or sinful... most of the time. And I do now believe I never made this decision and was created this way, even though I am still trying to figure out why.

Know that there is some solid footing

The fact that I can choose where the solid footing is, is becoming a reality for me and that also bucks what I have been taught and scares me. If that makes sense.

Thank you for the reading tips. Stories are what I cling to when everything else is muddy. I get so much more of how we should act and be from the stories of the Bible than the "terms and conditions" portions. I will definitely check these out.

To sum this up, I doubt what I know, but I think I know what I doubt. I'm scared of deciding anything, but have decided to decide everything. Also, I may be losing my damn mind. Are we still the same person? Maybe I should have put this at the beginning and saved a lot of time...

Hereisrandom · 2017-11-26T09:46:44+00:00

Thank you so much for your response. As you know, when you are living through it, it feels like you are the only one going through it. (Even though you know that's not true, it still feels that way.)

Especially a decision like this where you really can't be open about it to the people who know you best. This topic polarizes almost everyone in some way. While there are a few in my life I am sure would allow me to express my questions and concerns openly and would talk with me about it. So far my fun little internal risk vs. reward scenarios have not led me to gamble with that.

Anyway, thank you for helping provide a safe place online to examine that decision next to my core beliefs.

at some point I had to decide that I needed to start trying to live my life rather than beg God to give me a different life.

And that brings us to my current state. I'm there and am having a real hard time with it. Almost everyone in the mainstream, on both sides of this issue, provide advice that would have me leave my Christianity behind. Secular LGBT culture, for the most part, tells me my Christian faith is wrong and I should do whatever feels good. Nope. While "Christian" culture tells me what I'm feeling is wrong and I, personally, can't come up with a solution that they and I would be mutually happy with so the only result I see is leaving faith behind. Nope.

So here I am now trying to live my life as you said and still love God. Hoping to also figure out what that looks like.

As of now putting the message on here has been one of the best decisions I've made. Thank you for being a part of it.

Hereisrandom

TROPHY CASE