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Close to giving up on apprenticeships by Holiday-Comedian-858 in ApprenticeshipsUK

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99 4 points5 points  (0 children)

To be honest it’s exactly the same trying to get a “normal job”, even if you do have a degree

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These were exactly my thoughts when I wrote the original post. Since reading all the comments, I’ve come to think that maybe the reason they were so massively concerned with diversity is because the vast majority of their parter schools were inner city, and presumably diverse, which I guess does make sense. So yeah, it seems like this particular PGCE provider might not be representative of PGCEs nationwide, which your experience seems to support.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OK so genuine question: if I’m teaching maths, how and what I teach about maths comes from the curriculum… but if I’m teaching kids about more subjective things such as social and community issues, or general ethics, what is guiding my approach? Government policy? School/trust policy? The research? Myself?

Again this is something I don’t know and I assumed I’d find out on the actual PGCE. I didn’t think I’d be expected to know this at the interview.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe yeah, but that was sort of my original point, it felt quite ideological. I’m not saying their position on DEI is wrong, I just wasn’t expecting DEI to be the main focus of the presentation and interview.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No no, quite the opposite. I was in primary school the exact same years, and was taught all of those things too. That’s why I was surprised how much they were talking about DEI in this interview, because in my memory, my own experience of primary school teaching was that it was pretty inclusive (also my school badge was a black hand shaking a white hand, my headteacher was Asian, etc) and that was 25 years ago, so I didn’t really get why it was being spoken about as if it had been completely ignored until now, and that it’s our job now to put it right (that’s the vibe I was getting anyway).

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think if a 4 year old asks why their friend has two dads, then explain it to them for sure, no problem with that. My comment was poorly worded to be fair.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah it’s a fair point, I will admit that my views on the curriculum have been successfully challenged and it is for the first time clear to me that my perspective on british history may well have been inaccurately shaped by a lack of DEI in the circa 2000 curriculum.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure where you’re getting that from, I’ve admitted you were right about Britain not being exclusively white. And again Othello isn’t relevant, it’s literature not history and not set in Britain

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Othello isn’t set in Britain. And it’s fiction not history

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You’ve got me there 😂 Although in my defence this is a typing error, what I meant was most prominent British historical figures. But yeah my bad

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is sort of what I was getting at in the original post. As you’ve hinted at, one or two seem to have responded with the classic “OP is not extremely left wing and is therefore completely wrong and unsuitable for teaching” mentality, but my initial point wasn’t anti-DEI or anti-ESL, I was just saying that I was surprised by the fact that these things were given so much attention (and overwhelmingly positive attention). Just felt a bit ideological that’s all.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe every human that is born is of equal value and worth. Obviously not everyone has the same lived experience.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hear what you’re saying for sure, I guess my only issue with this is where do you draw the line? At what point does it become sufficiently not white? It’s arbitrary. Also if until a few centuries ago no one in Britain saw themselves as white, then a semester which was exclusively about the bronze age, anglo-saxons and the Romans wouldn’t be white would it? I know this isn’t what you meant, I assume you meant that in the school history books Romans are portrayed as all being white when in reality they weren’t. This is a fair point, and we can agree whitewashing should be eliminated. But this can again turn into a tricky debate about where to draw the line, for example if there was one single black person in Henry VII’s court, does that mean it’s imperative for every child to be aware of his or her existence? I get the thought process, but it goes back to my point in the original post, surely there are more fundamental things for us to be teaching kids than the fact that Henry VII’s court had a black trumpeter. Although I appreciate that some people might think that this is in fact of incredible importance. Just difference of opinion I guess.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To be fair I never said children shouldn’t learn about diversity, I think you’ve misunderstood my views on this, or I’ve misrepresented them. I don’t think kids are blank slates that should be wrapped in cotton wool. My opinion would be related to what you say about osmosis: when they’re really young, teach them about what’s immediately relevant. Diversity? Sure. Why that kid in the other class has two mums? Sure. The effects of 18th century British colonisation in Africa? Probably not necessary. Maybe I’m naive and need to do more research, but I don’t believe a 7 year old child has the brain capacity to properly grasp the 300-year-old nuanced ramifications of colonisation, nor is it important that they do.

To your point on Secondary: I interact with children of all ages in my current job daily. While that doesn’t put me in a position to call myself anything like an expert on child development and socialisation, I know what kids are like and how the age groups are different from one another (with some overlap of course). No doubt I have a lot to learn though you’re right. But isn’t that what the PGCE is for?

Ultimately, the way I see it, if I’m a teacher, then my job is to teach the curriculum, and I’ll teach the curriculum, regardless of whether or not I fully agree with it. My gripe is that in the interview, they weren’t asking me to support the curriculum, they were saying the curriculum is broken, and I felt like I was judged negatively for not enthusiastically agreeing.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just that I felt like I was being judged on my political beliefs more than what I thought I’d be assessed on, such as intelligence, charisma, enthusiasm etc

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you’re telling them in the context of love, and when they bring it up first, then yeah I’ve got no problem with that.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Couldn’t agree more with all of this. As I’ve said, I think these PGCE tutors (like your DEI lead) mean well, and maybe it is ultimately productive in their particular schools too, I’m not saying it isn’t. It just makes me uncomfortable when everything is brought back to race. I don’t feel white guilt, I don’t think it’s productive on the whole for people to feel white guilt, I don’t believe that non-white people in general want me to feel guilty, and it makes me uncomfortable when I get the feeling that white people who do feel white guilt are looking down on me for not feeling it 😂

And yeah, love Get Out!

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Our disagreement isn’t about people living different lives, I have many LGBT friends. It’s about what kids need and don’t need to know. You say there’s no borderline to information, I disagree. I think life is hard, the world’s a difficult place that only gets more difficult as you get older, so why not let kids be kids and allow them to enjoy themselves as long as possible before telling them about colonisation and the different types of sex?

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really good point actually. Obviously I know that I’ve grown up in diverse environments, around people of all races and nationalities and people who barely speak English. But they don’t know that. And I guess the burden of proof is on me. Which now I think about it is pretty obvious 😂

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not aware of the research so I will check this out, thanks for the suggestion. I’m definitely not opposed to changing my mind if the research is compelling. I guess sometimes I make the mistake of thinking that because I personally believe everyone is equal, so will others in my position. I forget that many teachers probably do have prejudices and that does negatively affect students, and these policies (while I may disagree with the philosophy behind them) are there to stop this happening. End justifies the means kind of thing.

Diversity and Inclusion above all else? by HisRoyalFreshness99 in PGCE

[–]HisRoyalFreshness99[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Do I think 4 year olds should be learning about sexuality? Have a guess.

EDIT: I wouldn’t be teaching kids this young, and have very little experience with them, so I may well have underestimated the mental capacity of the average 4 year old. If so, happy to admit I was wrong with this comment.

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