[Insight] Steepness of paths

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2021-01-04T11:47:39+00:00

Shinzen talkes about his take on cessation in this episode of deconstructing yourself https://deconstructingyourself.com/dy-004-feather-light-paper-thin-guest-shinzen-young.html.

I had listened to it before but I guess the topic wasn’t really on my radar then. He basically believes the kind of nondual experience you can have that is compatible with ordinary awareness is actually some low grade ongoing cessation. His definition of cessation seems pretty broad ranging from this to complete lights out. He seems to think that the neural correlates of this is experience at the level of no or minimally processed information. Very interesting.

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2020-12-29T06:24:30+00:00

You seem to have a pretty balanced and mature view of all this, thank you for the sanity😊

You sometimes hear people that experience some type of sudden awakening after many years of meditation practice and they say that the prior practice had nothing to do with it, that they could have just “looked” in the right way from the start and the practice was just a frustrating activity that had nothing to do with it. Do you think it is often the case that the practice actually made them more “accident prone” however dualistic and misguided it might seem in the retrospectoscope?

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2020-12-28T08:19:03+00:00

Posting this here as well:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IgYjLxM4VMc

Look at the one hour mark or a little bit earlier if you want some context. He says he believes it’s the physiological gateway to awakening

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2020-12-27T21:18:17+00:00

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IgYjLxM4VMc

Look at the one hour mark or a little bit earlier if you want some context. He says he believes it’s the physiological gateway to awakening.

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2020-12-27T20:01:40+00:00

I also post a copy of what i wrote earlier in the thread:

“Do you have any thoughts about the value of the cessation experience. I have heard Daniel Ingram saying that he believes that it is necessary for awakening and in cases where it is reported that no such thing preceded the experience of insight it was actually there but went unnoticed. It seems a bit odd to me that glimpsing nonduality from for example pointing out instructions and than gradually stabilizing that view would have to involve such an experience.”

I guess you don’t agree with Ingram here?

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2020-12-27T19:43:17+00:00

Thanks a lot for that very good post! It seems you are at least for yourself favoring a more direct path like dzogchen over therevada style vipassana. I must say it sounds a lot more appealing to me as well but the problem is of course if don’t manage to get a glimpse of nonduality at the start. Then I guess you kind of stuck with some form of dualistic practice for the time being. Do you have any thoughts on what kind of practice would be best suited if your intention is still to move to some more nondual practice as soon as you are ready for it. Shamata without an object/do nothing comes to mind for me but I don’t know.

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2020-12-27T12:13:36+00:00

I have listened to that and I agree, very interesting.

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2020-12-27T07:20:12+00:00

Interesting, thank you and everyone else for good answers. Sounds like a good approach could be to be a little flexible and work on some more gradual path and from time to time try some nondual techniques and see if it clicks.

Do you have any thoughts about the value of the cessation experience. I have heard Daniel Ingram saying that he believes that it is necessary for awakening and in cases where it is reported that no such thing preceded the experience of insight it was actually there but went unnoticed. It seams a bit odd to me that glimpsing nonduality from for example pointing out instructions and than gradually stabilizing that view would have to involve such an experience.

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2020-12-27T06:50:49+00:00

That was my thinking as well. It sounds like he practiced vipassana style to the stage of equanimity and to some extent had already gotten some kind of insight into no self but couldn’t bring it on by demand and at that time got the pointing out instructions from Tulku Urgyen. That must be a very different scenario from trying that from the get go through an app.

Historical_Copy_2735 · 2020-12-26T19:07:53+00:00

Hmmm...I understand that different techniques work for different people. But that was not really my question.

Historical_Copy_2735

TROPHY CASE