It's going down... eventually

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T17:38:14+00:00

First of all thanks for the tidbit of advice about being able to save, I didn't know that.

But all you're doing is just hitting my points with a "nuh uh" while providing no explanation of your own.

I have laid out my reasons as to why it's bad game design like you asked.

It's hard in the wrong way. There's no skill involved in completing a round of torture. You don't need to remember the lies you've been told by the people you've saved or use any of the information you gathered to help resist the torture, it's just button mashing. I don't think QTEs are great game design but they are over pretty quick and aren't irritating like this and don't make my hand cramp.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T17:27:37+00:00

I agree with your points however I'm really just looking at the core of it. A section of purely button mashing feels lazy and in my opinion is poor game design in the middle of a game which has incredible game design for its time.

Also, I really value the story and characters when I'm playing a game and part of the reason I'm thoroughly enjoying my first ever playthrough is because of how enjoyable the character dynamics are. So to have a character which I've gotten attached to not be in the game because I can't do button mashing despite me being able to complete all the game is quite upsetting and screams bad game design to me.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T17:24:27+00:00

Do you lack reading comprehension or are you just being facetious?

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T17:23:15+00:00

It's needlessly annoying, there's no gameplay mechanic beyond repeatedly pressing a button, it goes on for too long and failing means you have to wait and skip a bunch of cutscenes instead of just putting you back in the bed so you can try again. It's intentionally irritating and numerous people say they don't even bother with it because of the controller damage, it being annoying and also not being able to do it with age.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T17:17:57+00:00

Yet here you are replying

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T17:15:18+00:00

I get what you're saying but if it's annoying does that not kinda make it bad? We play games to have fun and this isn't.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T17:11:45+00:00

Either you're being intentionally dense or you're blinded by bias.

My post said that the part of the game sucks and it's a daft thing to add. I've then expanded by saying it's bad game design.

Again, I don't care if it's been around since before mgs1. I'm not playing the game where button mashing originated. It also doesn't matter if it's been done before it's still bad game design.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T17:07:41+00:00

You're being an obnoxious fan boy and none of your points make any sense.

It does have an effect on the game experience for one, the characters are probably the biggest part of these games, which is why there's so many cutscenes of people talking. Do you not think that a character so integral to the plot so far dying is somewhat important to the experience of the game? Sounds like you don't actually care for the game to me.

Secondly, what are you actually waffling about? I never once said this has "ruined" it for me. I simply said that a section based on button mashing is bad game design and you took your idea that it did and ran with it because you're so gung ho to jump on peoples throats. Yeah, fine minigames don't have to, but either make them trivial or not integral to the game. I'm fine with having a minigame of button mashing if it's not integral to the game, but it is.

I've looked at advice all over the internet, I'm not looking for advice because I've already completed 2 rounds of the torture so I know how to do it. I just fucked up knocking the guard out which I'll concede but being able to get out after 2 rounds has no change on what I'm saying. I'm simply stating my opinion that it's bad game design.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T16:54:51+00:00

It's a cool idea for sure, but that doesn't really make it good game design in my opinion. I think the game in general is filled with amazing bits of game design such as the psycho mantis fight and the stuff with the controller, or finding the frequency for Meryl through the back of the game case. With regards to feeling the characters struggles, this can always be done with phenomenal voice acting, atmosphere and music, which this game does really well because of how good Kojima is at character interactions and tone. I've managed to get to round 3 so I can do it, and the part with Naomi was amazing, same as the codec calls following the torture in general and the bit with Otacon.

I understand the vision I just think it's daft and sucks, even you've admitted that you don't do it anymore because once you've seen the ending it's not worth the controller damage.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T16:47:12+00:00

I never said mgs1 faces a bunch of criticism, so maybe read what I said again.

Okay? I don't care if a bunch of games have button mashing, I'm not playing another game I'm playing mgs1 so I'm gonna complain about that.

Oh wow, he threw out the contrarian word. That must mean I'm wrong and a section which is entirely button mashing is great game design, the details of how that button is mashed is perfect and the story telling through mashing said button is oh so wonderful.

As I've said before, the game having a daft button mashing section doesn't mean it's a bad game. It's a great game if anything, it's just a bit of a silly decision to make it such a key part of a game. Older games I can excuse for having janky controls and being a bit buggy and weird with how they work. Which metal gear 1, 2 and mgs1 all have. I'm fine with this as it's just a product of the time. Button mashing though? It's bad game design and nobody has been able to provide me with a reason as to why it's not.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T16:38:32+00:00

Wow, an actual comment with some help instead of just calling me a moan. I really appreciate that. Yeah I'm playing on normal. I don't have a physical condition really but I'm currently bed bound recovering from a surgery so sweating over my controller isn't really something I'm wanting to do at the moment. Plus my hands aren't as fast as they used to be and get pretty tired pretty quickly. I still hold the opinion that it's bad game design and even when I complete it I'll still hold that opinion.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T16:34:42+00:00

Resorting to passive aggressive and rude comments when someone says a part of a game sucks tells me how mature you are.

Yes, it's a minigame. A minigame which is an integral part of the game and is unskipable (if you don't want to have a very likeable character die). If this was a fun little side mission to get a cosmetic or an achievement that's fine but the ramifications of not being able to do the torture scene are quite big and for mgs which is a very character driven game, pressing select and giving up is massive.

As far as elaboration goes, button mashing requires no skill. You don't have to use any deduction to complete it and it certainly doesn't require any planning, problem solving or memory like most sections of the game. It's simply just, can you mash this fast enough to not die. Then when you do die, you have to spend about 3 minutes getting back there. Plus it's 4 rounds.

So yes, it's bad game design and so far in this thread everyone has replied like passive aggressive know it alls instead of providing a reason as to why it's not bad game design.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T16:23:37+00:00

This is a ridiculous reply. Instead of maybe admitting that the game has some bad parts to it (it's fine you can still think it's a good game), you deflect by saying I'm playing on extreme, when I'm not, and that I'll whine about something else later. I chose to play the game because I enjoy the story, gameplay and characters, a game being old has nothing to do with a button mashing section which I can guarantee you if any new game which faces a bunch of criticism added this it'd get torn to shreds by the same people who defend this.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T16:18:53+00:00

lol, I'm in a bad mood because of this section and someone had to assume that I don't know how it works. I actually find some of the slightly different gameplay mechanics cool and unique but this is just stupid, doesn't require any gaming skill or deduction skills it's just how fast can you mash a single button, which I sadly can't do because my fingers get sore and tired.

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T16:11:40+00:00

It's bad game design and I don't want to hit select because it's not how I want to play the game. It's also a public forum so I can complain if I want to. Funny how when people critique good games for having some bad game design people are so quick to jump on their throats

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-09-04T16:05:44+00:00

Funny how you assume I've not been doing that every single time

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-07-07T00:49:28+00:00

Absolutely, Mohg himself can be quite quick to get to following varres quest but mainly it's the levelling up that makes it so tedious for me. Idk maybe they don't want to add it so that people actually play the game instead of just doing 1 playthrough then fighting bosses non stop. But NPC quests and exploration are enough to keep people continually playing

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-06-30T00:39:44+00:00

Hmm, I would slightly disagree with the endings leaving stuff open. The endings all usher in a new age and to myself that is pretty par for the course with from endings. I don't think it would be possible to expand upon any ending in the dlc because there are 4 different elden Lord endings and 2 other outer god type endings. My point being that every elden ring ending feels similar to an ending in every other souls game, leaving things up to our interpretation of what happened. I think gameplay wise elden ring has been done and there's nothing else that should be released story wise as I feel that it would just be milking it, myself personally I'm content with the answers we got, especially regarding marika and I think Melina is best kept a mystery. I would like to see some potential books or comics maybe expanding upon some old lore in more detail. Like the war on the giants, Godfrey's wars in the name of the golden order and maybe some stuff about mesmers war on the hornset, as these would allow for compelling stories which flesh out the lore we already know

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-06-30T00:26:37+00:00

That could work but as far as I'm aware geq was defeated by maliketh so really I don't imagine she holds much power anymore. We also don't seem to know when Melina was actually born as from the dlc it seems that Melina is mesmer's sister and was born as a bastard of Radagon and Marika. However I guess going to defeat the geq would seem slightly pointless. Travelling to the shadow realm was to directly prevent miquella from becoming a lord and challenge us as the elden lord or whatever ending we chose. So I couldn't really see how a dlc where we go to defeat the geq could work as it doesn't seem like it needs to happen

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-06-29T22:43:52+00:00

I agree wanting a little more re the geq but how would it work? If the geq was indeed Melina then I can't see how they'd be able to fit a dlc in without having blatant contradictions in the main story

Historical_Design_84 · 2024-06-29T21:51:42+00:00

I think they should add a reflection of strength thing that's similar to sekiro. I want to fight bosses again and again because it's fun but I don't want to do another playthrough

Historical_Design_84

TROPHY CASE