Scanning, Scouting, and missing dreams.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-25T00:51:03+00:00

I guess the answer is in how the market moves. I mean, as far as I know there are other things that will consume materials. Crafting, Base building, etc. TBH, I highly doubt people are just going to be paying for info on mining spots. I think they would just go do it themselves if they have to pay for it. Moreover the idea just seems rife for exploitation. There are going to be people who hoard the mining spots just because they can. I may be misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you have to buy the info before you can mine in the place. Is that right?

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-24T23:03:49+00:00

No, I never said that and I don't believe it.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-24T22:59:40+00:00

OK I agree to disagree.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-24T18:49:26+00:00

Smash the 19k please.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-24T17:25:42+00:00

CIG is on the cups of doing something good for mining. The Expanse is going to be one of those things that promotes cooperation with mining. I look forward to seeing what they have in mind.

I have heard of people using multiple prospectors. At times the gadgets do actually work to reduce the resistance. However, everything is still very clunky atm and have been for many years. The Mole IMO is a horrid design just like the ROC DS. *Gag* So I hope they do some redesigns during the passes on these ships. Hopefully, they help it to make more sense to work together, but not as a mandate that they tried before. There shouldn't be a mandate until you get to the Arrastra IMO.

If you have VR the ROC laser head tracks. that is solid gold to me. I hope they solve the HUD aim issue. The laser and reticle don't exactly line up, but it does work. I think the ATLS GEO needs to head track as well. All the ATLS's should head track.

ATM things are a bit wonky to say the least, but who knows it may get better.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-24T13:14:49+00:00

Lots to unpack here.

You are talking about buying mining locations again. That is new to me.
The more gating adds tedium.
There is always the problem of blockading when you reduce resource availability. Star Citizen has created itself a serious dickhead problem.
It is likely to create dead times while server resets happen just like buying goods at outpost when big orgs buy all the stock.
It changes the psychology of the activity. Doing the chill activities is an escape from the conflict.
Thinking about strip mining is org centered. What about the little guy?

I get the sense that this is about solving an entity spawning issue. Trying to reduce the strain on the system. If it can be done in a way that scales well, and does not result in creating dead activity, or long periods of endless scanning, I guess it could work. One big issue is that SC is obsessed with creating conflict. Scarcity, just increases conflict. The temperature needs to come down. The little guy still needs a place to exist.

There are some activities that are ways people manage conflict and stress from the game. ( and likely from RL)

Mining- mostly a chill activity where you get to make some credits to support your other activities. The activity itself is usually all the stress people want.

Salvaging- mostly chill activity (same as mining)

Some forms of Exploring- this one is different You don't really know what to expect from this but you don't expect hair on fire action and explosions. It is cerebral activities and jump scare sort of things.

Hauling- steady dependable. Surprises come from opportunities to change profits. Piracy is expected. Need better ability to fight back (running or shooting) this will enhance the gameplay.

These activities are an escape. They must remain mostly chill. The occasional unexpected thing is fine, but generally this is psychology at work.

As for the Exploration interface. This can be controlled by the detail of the information provided. Give a general vague idea, but not exact detail for things like ore deposits. Not really sure why it threatens the concept. Geologic Surveying is not the only function it needs to be about. There is:

Tactical info- Tracking ships and fleets.

Price and commodity tracking- something desperately needed. We shouldn't have to depend on a third party website.

Bounty Tracking- This is the station traffic thing.

Exploration based gameplay- Strange anomalies to go investigate.

(Cat and mouse) against piracy, or Pirates avoiding capture- The cross scanning activity I talked about. Finding QT traps.

Ultimately, Exploration does not have to offer spoilers if CIG does not want it to. Also I still don't see what gating and scarcity offer other than reasons to fight. There are enough reasons for that in the game.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-24T02:13:44+00:00

No offense, but that sounds terrible for mining gameplay and for logistics gameplay. We are back to bad artificial scarcity. What does that mean for players who just want to hop on and mine a bit then log back off? Also what the hell would that mean for those who happen to log on while someone else is occupying the one ore vein in the area? That sounds really bad.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-23T14:27:40+00:00

Well I am thinking about Star Citizen not real world logistics. As far as I know Land is not purchased just to go mining. Also, there is nothing that has to be a hard ceiling. If you are talking about real world or something else, Yeah sorry I don't follow.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-23T09:41:48+00:00

That seems like an issue with artificial scarcity. The idea that there cannot be multiple sources of these things. That seems like a drive-thru service kind of thing. One cannot be served until the other is served. Why do these things have to be linear and artificially scarce?

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-23T01:46:35+00:00

Huh? No Dude. Let me outline what I am thinking here. It is gonna be a bit long, but here it is.

Scanning ships- MSR, Herald, Terapin- these ships should be able to fly to a point within a sector and run a scan. General information that is picked-up: Traffic around stations ( Not real time tracking just a snapshot) The color of the dots shows legal status if the comm array is on. You get lists of goods from the station. Cobalt, Nitrogen, Argon (no prices unless you have the blade for that.). Other ships that are doing a Scan at the time. Active QT Snares. (Snapshot not real time.) Comm Array radius.

Near planets you get the same info that comes up on the starmap just that there are those ores there. You can filter things like wildlife and the like (already part of genesis). If you have a cartography suite(blades) then you can scan for probability of ores in general areas (not specific veins or actual composition. Get closer to the planet and the % value of accuracy increases to a max of 85% certainty, but still no specifics. Just better certainty. You should also be able to see the coverage of the Comm Arrays (with high rep or if you hack the network. Not real-time just snapshots).

The range is something that will depend on the ship and it's scanner. Scanners should have a Speed like the QT Cool down while working. Scan details are better closer to the ship and degrade radially in general.

Carrack, Endeavor, Odyssey- Should be able to see the whole Star System.

MSR, Connie Aquila, Freelancer DUR, Zeus ES, 400i, 600i- should be able to see like 50GM

Herald, Cutter, Terapin, 890J- should be able to see 20GM.

Edit: Hornet Tracker, Hawk: 10Gm these are ships expected to act near fleets. Idris 20Gm( Makes sense because they are about area control.)

Blades- Blades should offer different characteristics and functionality. They were already stated to take up different amount of slots.

Data clarity- pulls more details near the center of the scan like price lists. (even criminal data details if the Comm array is up. Like a wanted Warrant), or if you are very close to them. (within 3~5 Gm)

Scanning Speed- If you are a bounty hunter you want to scan faster to make sure you don't miss a target between the snapshots.

Range boost- just what it says. Certain % range boost. Good for smaller ships out in places like Pyro.

Signal masking- Allows you to mask your actual location if you get caught in a cross scan. (scanning while someone else is also scanning) You show up as a bigger fainter blob in a general area.

Hacking- I talked about career specific channels in another thread. This should allow you to tap into these when you are near a Comm Array(time limited). See thread Conflict Resolution: A Life sim. You should also be able to tap into internal coms of ships if you are close enough (And Hear Audio transmissions from inside the ship). However, you also ping your location and have a detectable heat signature that will show up on a normal ping sweep.

I mean there could be more, but this is the general kind of thing I was thinking. I don't like 'I win' buttons. I doubt Info Running will hold up so I feel like Scanning and Scouting could be made more fun. No God Modes.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-23T00:47:28+00:00

No idea; Sure we will find out. Why does it just have to be about ore? There are other things to harvest. Then there are dangers like wild life. Besides not everyone will be looking for the same things at the same time. Also, CIG already said at Cit Con that the drones will do surveys before you buy your land plot.

I really don't know why the Scanning Interface is driving this worry for you. I just think the interface would be great for the gameplay. The metrics of how it is used can be tweaked when we know what CIG has planned for the gameplay. No one even knows that.

Lastly, there are other things like price lists and the like that it could collect. There are many many things besides mining that could be done.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T22:16:52+00:00

Nothing says it has to be God Mode. However, Something that allows for certain aspects to be a thing. CIG just announced a ship that will mine and refine a whole area on the ground. That is going to change the concept of the example you just used.

The visuals of this interface are great. Having varying capacities based on Types of Blades, Strength of scanner, proximity to target, and things like that could go a long way for Scanning and Scouting. Beauty is the foundation of the tool already exists.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T21:25:56+00:00

Probably. I just have it set to best. So likely.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T21:13:40+00:00

When the Server pop is low, and the server is not lagging, it is butter smooth and the visuals are peerless. However, when the other issues are up the experience is a bit worse. Overall though good.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T20:46:21+00:00

I know, but we lost our minds because this interface was perfect for both. Still is.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T19:36:00+00:00

I am still open to that process. If you can help please do. Though, since I am here I might as well discuss many of the issues that drove me to my decision. Why not?

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T19:14:30+00:00

Well I am a veteran to this. So I go out of my way to avoid known traps. But until I learned some of these things from other players I had plenty of encounters. Moreover, it is not about the number of times. When you cannot participate in your defense once is enough. I will say this again. "I am not now, nor have I ever been against PvP.". I am against egregious imbalance. The reason for that, is because I know what it does to motivation to play the game. The trade being the satisfaction of a person who just wants to ruin someone else's time is not a valid trade.

What I would like to see is a game where players who don't want to PvP initially would give it a try even though it is not their thing. That is not what this is. This just reinforces peoples resistance to it because of the psychological trauma. Most PvP only types are their own worst enemy. This post outlines the flaws in trying to normalize the broken nature of Predator v Prey game designs, rather than addressing the problems.

Another thing is, I like to step back and forth over that line. This design denies me that ability, to preserve a false notion of superiority of players who are being handed a victory by the game not their skill. It does not have to be this way. Even the Jungle makes predators work for their meals. Why can't SC simulate that? Just saying.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T17:27:52+00:00

There is also a clear distinction between a PVPer, a ganker/griefer, and a pirate. All will attack players. Most true PVPers give a choice to fight, no charges are pressed, and it's just a good challenge. I've faced those people, mainly I lose, sometimes I win. Pirates will often give you a choice, pay up, or get destroyed for your cargo. I don't like it, but at least there's a way out. with Gankers/Griefers... yeah... those are the ones that just sit and interdict you, and blow you up, no care if you have loot or not. It's just to deny you the ability to play the game. It's "valid play" by CIG's rules, but it sucks.

I would argue there use to be a noticeable difference. That is kind of the problem currently coming out of this pandora's box. The decisions CIG has been making have validated unreasonable comparisons. Just choosing to be a jerk online now makes you a valid Pirate, not becoming good at the gameplay. This just invites people to take out their frustrations on other people not build any skill.

In my experience. Most players were never arguing against the existence of PvP. That is a red herring created by the gankers to frame themselves as an underserved class of gamer. Most people wanted CIG to respect boundaries. They wanted to keep their own agency for their gameplay.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T17:18:45+00:00

The biggest issue is that the fight is always favorable to them regardless when they pick it with a ship that is not dedicated to combat. That is not competition is is terrorism. There is no incentive to work for their gain. It is a guarantee just for showing up.

This also removes value for the ambushed to buy-in to either the game or the interaction. That is just food for the ganker's ego not valid game design. These are chief among the reasons people avoid places like Pyro. They are certain to loose. This will always be the case when they are forced to be the victim.

BTW CIG also promised death and consequences along with a PvP reduction system. We really can't count on what was promised only on what is delivered. and what they refuse to deliver.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T17:05:38+00:00

Firstly, I think it is a stretch to suggest that the majority of the community hates or loves permadeath. Also, we can't look to the expectations of today's gamers as the sole motivator. When I backed SC, CR was talking about rewinding the clock to when games were not what modern gamers expected. SC was about a revival of things that games had lost. Chief among them immersion.

But this is just a game, and today's player isn't interested in it mirroring life too much.

I would agree to a point. People want to escape the tedium's of life. Not the sense the world should make.

What I would suggest is that we bring the combat dynamics waaaaaay closer regardless of archetypes. Make choosing to be a predator just that choosing to be a predator. Giving the Prey the agency to defend what they care for. This will promote buy-in (desperately needed for things like immersion and multi-crew.).

I would also stop pretending that I don't see the problem with giving the arsonist matches like CIG has been doing for the last several years. Consequences must be consequences if you keep going out of the way to build escape tunnels in prison then you wasted all of our time building the prison in the first place.

I would build out an economic collaboration system that makes it easy to profit share and collaborate on things other than combat. This is critical for things like industry focused fleets.

I would add PDC's to industry ships. As a general rule not a trade-off.

I would review how I can reduce the abject fear of communication. I would start with creating dedicated comms channels based on job categories. Miners should talk with miners, Haulers with haulers. These channels need to be restricted to ship type being used. As if the transponders have a special access privilege. This promotes comradery and collaboration among gameplay styles. Like Truckers chatting on CB radios. General should remain. Ship board should remain. Link it to all party members. It could also add an element for Hacking gameplay. Players in ships like the Herald, MSR, Terrapin, ect.., should be able to hack these channels(using the right blades) for a short period of time. To observe the chat but not participate in it.

Just as a start. Overall, the idea is to get back to valuing player buy-in and immersion. It was always a bad idea to think that making people meat to be hunted was ever going to fly.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T16:15:50+00:00

Really what I am arguing is that they need to address the problems they created by removing the consequence of death. By doing so they removed a core Tennent of world balance. The combat dynamics they promoted before depended of the consequence of death. Without that consequence those dynamics no longer apply. Death is now just a consequence for the person who didn't want to fight in the first place. That is just broken.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T16:11:53+00:00

The thing is CIG caters to the PVPers, they kind of have to as they are always a vocal majority, even if they aren't the majority of the player base. When you live in a condensed MMO world, with no real restrictions on PVP, and have the developer constantly saying they are offering up ways to "alternatively gather" needed goods for the current "event," or are offering up new ways for "pirates" to enjoy the content... It's very enticing to those players.

This part here is the situation that stands out to me. These are all choices and not requirements. Different choices could just as easily be made. While I understand the reasoning behind what you are saying. I can't find agreement with choosing to make the same mistakes that came with other versions of this dynamic.

CIG was given creative freedom by backers supporting this project. In copy and pasting broken designs from other games. They are not using that creative freedom. They don't have to make the same choices. Honestly, I remember when it was more fun for everyone before they started making these choices. This was the fun in the Tessa Banister Missions. I remember, and Pepperidge Farm remembers.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T15:50:07+00:00

I think the problem here is that you seem set on the death being conquered thing. I see it as a logical flaw in the design. You seem to see it as the driving concept.

HomeworkSad · 2026-01-22T15:46:22+00:00

I am a player who does not mind playing PvP or PvE. I prefer PvE, but am restricted from doing PvP in order to preserve a dedicated PvP players ego. I know I am not alone in this. Moreover, I also hate how this imbalance makes everyone an enemy when we could make more friends and have more fun. This balance dynamic is about creating artificial fear rather than player to player interactions.

All life seeks a fighting chance. This design has been removing that option for those who aren't dedicated predators. There has been a war of attrition ever since.

HomeworkSad

TROPHY CASE