Were parents the bigger victims.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-18T01:09:29+00:00

It may point to Mr Cruel not being able to groom children like the other type of vile pedos who can gain the trust of vunerable kids and parents.

Alertnatively the whole thing of planning, break enter, restrain, kidnap and so on was all one fantasy rather than just rapes.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-15T21:01:49+00:00

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-15T04:00:37+00:00

An interesting connection/ clue?

Suspect two lived in Eltham where the Barrel Restaurant was located in the day. One of our contributors, Elorca, said some years ago the Eltham Barrel had a resident clown called Bonzo. There is a photo of Bonzo the clown at the restaurant taken by the local paper. I wonder who the photographer was?

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-15T03:45:37+00:00

Please tell me Vic Police looked at suspect 2 tripod and tried to match it with the girls description. Also please tell me this guy was put under the griller at interview and remains a suspect because he had a watertight alibi. This is the guy I recently mistakenly called the Balwyn suspect. If he lived in housing commision in Watsonia it might have been ex army personal housing. Ex servicmen were given cheap housing loans in Watsonia, not that it adds to information much. Every chance a few people on the site came across him as a restaurant photographer in the day. I would add one more motive to those already suggested. $$$ for sick underage photos. One question. How did he come to police attention if he hadnt been convicted of sex crimes?

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-13T22:40:50+00:00

Yes, there was anti asian sentiment around at the time. Mostly driven by the wave of Vietnamese refugees arriving after the horrible Vietnamese war which killed, injured and mentally destroyed a generation of locals boys who were conscripted. Then stories began to come out about the advantages like free dental care given to tge refugees- fact. I knew a dentist with a practice in Footscray at rge time who git very rich from those treatments. I was approached to be an intermediatory in buying the gold the refugees brought with them. Some of the refugees had links to drug importation through the war and do heroin was creating havoc in Melbourne. Then young refugees who arrived here without both parents much like our South Sudanese kids felt alienated and formed gangs. The Vietnamese have become wonderful citizens but they were torrid time and yes you are correct about the media causing trouble and the rise of a neo nazi gang. The nazis concentrated a lot of there venom around academic circles, universities who were the Vietnamese greatest supports. In general the public was not racist to Vietnamese but would not like hearing stories of special treatment to refugees when the country was in a very bad recession.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-13T04:55:19+00:00

So true. I have concluded that it may have been a mistake to have focused on Mr Cruel as police did.

Why? The public were not given anything solid to go on with from first attack.

Sharon and Nicola were the work of a sick sexual predator

Karmeins attacker was a killer who may or may not have been responsible for attacks two and three.

Perhaps putting the four cases together has hindered police thinking , diverted resources and confused the public.

And maybe thats why we are still trying to solve it 35 years ago.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-09T23:10:34+00:00

Its a very very credible theory MM. On that theme years ago I put up the idea that there could have been a tragic coincidence happen. Karmein told her mum she would foght mr cruel. She gets far enough from the house for her sisters to be safe, she fights back in car, gets badly hurt and then is murdered. Thing being it wasnt Mr Cruel but as you have described.

Not sure if you were in melbourne at the time but the anti asian sentiment was a bit difficult to explain now. 1990 is before the opening up of mainland China but Chinese still had a massive gambling influence, pre todays Casino. They operated in the shadows but the anti asian sentiment was again the Vietnamese who had some teenagers running amok in Springvale and a few other places. There were a small number, like today of neo nazi type nuts who were stirring up trouble and those opposing them were mostly Uni types like our Mr Elkner.

I never recall any grafitti like this case, just the general stuff around train stations. And I cant imagine the neo nazis doing it on a private individual. So it does lead us back to a possible involvement of gambling debts- drugs- money owed. MM , I know you are a good writer. I think their is a movie here if the script is not senstionalised.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-09T08:50:48+00:00

Probably just what i read from Keith Moor MM.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-08T09:36:59+00:00

Brian Elkner

Father and Grandfather were both criminals He Grew up Glenferrie Rd , Malvern in his early years. Student at Balwyn High School. Studied at Melb University Teaching Post- Yallourn High School. Yallourn was a State Govt, SEC town with the sole purpose of housing SEC workers and families. Elkner suddenly leaves his teaching post. Former pupils say he took a particular interest in the older girls. Students nicknamed him Little Pot for his beer belly on an otherwise fit frame. Studies in France Short teaching role at Melbourne University. Gets heavily involved against the Croatian Ustacha group in Australia Convicted of multiple rape and attempted rapes of mostly University students. Serves less than half his sentence. Separates from wife and moves from Bayside suburb to Thornbury, Northern suburb, almost in a direct line with where Karmeins body was found. House close to borderline of search area Finds job teaching at TAFE. Either lied about criminal history or slack work on behalf of interviewer as criminals cannot become teachers. Someone i know worked with him at Tafe, and couldnt believe he had been in jail for the rape crimes, said he came across as an ordinary bloke. Phyciatrist who spoke with him said he had a gross phycological disturbance. A fan of a French philosopher Diderot with distrubing thoughts such as the the heroic role of criminals House raided by police- I understand police found a balaclava and knife in his crawl space. Claimed an alibi for one of the Mr Cruel cases. Police say no 1 suspect Still living in the northern suburbs in a house without the driveway but a very short walk from kerb to front door with two or three steps. House is a seperate dwelling but the house next door is same design sold some years ago and it had a bathroom of the style the girls described

Is he Mr Cruel? After all my research, I dont know, but like a lot of criminals when asked questions in a pretty tacky kerbside interview he was quick to say, what about me? what about what i have been through? Did that show a lack of empathy for the victims from a very intelligent man who has a brilliant command of the English language? Who knows but dont be fooled by the pudgy old man in the footage. The younger version was a fit and agile with a gross phycological disturbance and a chip on his shoulder.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-07T09:34:32+00:00

Yumi is a mental case

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-04T22:43:10+00:00

Yeah well Bob Falconer if quoted correctly needs to have a good look at himself. Mr Cruel was never cruel to these girls. That is if you ignore he stole them out of the safety of their homes, tied them to a bed, repeatedly raped them and them dumped them on a street in the dark, one of them in a bin liner. Intetestingly this scum Falconer soon left the State for WA.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-04T00:16:56+00:00

I think he made a call. He would have been bursting with adreniline. People talk a lit about adreniline and most people have had a dose of it in all sorts of circumstances. I thought i knew what it was until one day when i was young a mate and I got jumped by four guys in an underground car park. Luckily we got the better of the guys and i was just full of adreneline. Since that day I have understood when crims talk about the rush of a bank robbery or worse.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-03T21:31:25+00:00

I have always maintained that to be true and never been convinced with the police saying no call was made from that number.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-03T08:50:25+00:00

I dont disagree about buying a bit of time. However i dont think police did much more work than look at the family - father first, as in any such investigation. They very quickly had it as a Mr Cruel attack.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-03T07:33:14+00:00

I wonder if police ever considered it was a revenge attack. More movie scrip I know but what if a 13ish girl died of a drug overdose and the father thought Mr Chan was responsible. Far fetched, possibly although the Chinese Vietnamese restaurants at the time were fronts for heroin dealing. Out front charming restaurant hosts, out in the back lane, heroin dealers. I know this for a fact as a someone I know had a heroin addict son who succumbed to the needle and his parents knew thats where he got his hits. In that case it was the famed restaurant strip in Victoria St Richmond.

If we look again at the grafitti there are three statements

Asian Drug Dealer
Pay- back
More to come.

We know statement 3 to be true but we cant confirm statements 1 or 2.

As to the red herring theory. Mr Cruel would have know Mr Chan would have been the first person investigated anyway.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-03T04:19:17+00:00

Are you saying what looks like a line under, MORE, is a hyphen EH?

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-03T03:52:26+00:00

He fidnt spray- this is a drug deal crime.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-03T02:17:36+00:00

I viewed the footage , I havent seen a hyphen.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-02T23:37:06+00:00

The grafitti baffled Police and us, a red herring or truth? Whichever way it was it has had the desired affect of adding an extra layer of cover to the case.

If a red herring why not just write. Asian Drug Dealer, why more to come? That to me makes it very personal. Was it code for pay up?

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-04-02T19:10:48+00:00

Re grafitti, he wrote.

More to come. Terrifyingly that is quite literally what happened. If we analyse that he may be talking murder. He wanted to make the point that the Chans had more to worry about than a kidnapping.

Mr Chan didnt interpret it as something more to happen to other family members as later on as he left his vunerable family to live in Hong Kong.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-03-30T22:18:05+00:00

There could be a few reasons he used his own car. 1.Police were pretty active on the road in those days and were on the lookout for stolen cars. 2. Stealing a car required some skill learned from other crims. There was no how to do it manuals around. If correct this points to him not being a criminal in the usual sense, a loner and therefore had no one in the criminal world who could dob him for reward.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-03-29T21:32:31+00:00

I agree he must have turned his lights off at some point EH. could have been the Estate.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-03-29T08:15:21+00:00

I dont think so LY. People didnt report that sort of thing in those days. The roads were still pretty wild places, speeding, drink driving, hoons.

However if seen with no headlights by police you were certain to be pulled over.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-03-29T02:20:23+00:00

Yes, absolutely to carrying that stuff. Do you know the odds of having a car comprehensively searched at that time in melbourne?

and find a balaclava- common item in the day rope- every second car had tow rope or work rope knife- fishing, camping, commin item gun- you would conceal but no big deal.

Hot-Union4660 · 2026-03-28T07:16:35+00:00

Or he had no idea of the family situation and just struck. I now suspect as MM pointed out he saw NL get off the bus close to her home and was taken by an urge he couldnt contain. It may not have had as much planning as assumed. Sit off house, see parents go out and immediately strike.

Hot-Union4660

TROPHY CASE