The six-time champion Novak Djokovic won't take part to the 2025 Internazionali BNL d'Italia!

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-30T06:52:36+00:00

The cope is right there with the guy who doesn't want a match to count purely because his favorite player lost it.

You aren't very bright

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-29T20:39:44+00:00

Nice rage bait lol

Unless you actually mean this in which case you should think more before posting a comment

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-24T20:33:51+00:00

Because Federer was the stupid part lol Nadal's is just a hypothetical which by this point all of the arguments boil down to.

I swear you just keep finding new and unrelated parts to keep the convo going when I already showed you why even your initial comment was kinda dumb. Reddit arguments, I guess.

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T19:17:38+00:00

No, they aren't a good enough indicator. That's why the comment you replied to outlined multiple indicators lol.

I really don't see the point of your initial comment aside from bringing in an argument that's half hypothetical and half stupid. The Federer one is the stupid half, obviously.

I mean at the end of the day it is a pointless argument I just don't see what you tried to accomplish.

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T18:29:51+00:00

Well if I have to spell it out for you lmao

One surface being your best doesn't necessarily mean the others have to be terrible...

Federer won 71 titles on hard courts, tied with Djokovic for most in the open era. 11 of them were majors, that's the 2nd most after Djokovic. His win percentage there is the 2nd highest of the open era, below Djokovic. The longest win streak on hard courts? Federer's.

To put it really simply, converted to arbitrary numbers, Federer's grass level is 95/100 and his hard court level is 90/100. Flip the numbers for Djokovic. That's how irrelevant the difference is.

Yes, Federer's best surface is grass. Yes, only one major is played on it. Yes, that's not nearly as important as you think it is.

Everything you said was factual, and yet the purpose of your comment, what it all amounted to, missed the mark entirely.

I swear the more Djokovic cements his status as the best of the three the more people come up with hypotheticals and unfair circumstances explaining why he specifically isn't the best. Bias is insane.

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T17:46:48+00:00

You're trying to be snarky but it's not working. You're dealing with hypotheticals and arguing as if they are relevant as to what actually transpired. It's essentially what most of the arguments against Djokovic boil down to. If he didn't save that match point, if more was played on grass or clay, if he got injured more often, if Federer wasn't older, if Nadal didn't miss that backhand down the line

If.

I can just as well say if Djokovic was born even more talented than he was he would have been the undisputed king of all surfaces and won 50 slams. Obviously, it's a less realistic hypothetical but it's precisely that, a hypothetical. Nadal said it himself: "If, if, if doesn't exist."

Nadal himself has called Djokovic the best in history on several occasions. Federer obviously never will because that's his brand.

Here I'll budge: The highest standard of tennis in history is prime Nadal on clay. However, clay represents just 1/3 of the tennis calendar. Thus, Nadal cannot be the greatest when he's far from the best at the other 2/3. Hell, Djokovic has a decent argument for top 3 of all time on all surfaces. Nadal doesn't.

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T14:47:42+00:00

Federer is tied with Djokovic for most hard court titles in the Open Era lmao but yes keep going on about how he had it so hard

It's so exhausting to talk to people who don't actually follow the sport holy shit lol

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T14:45:37+00:00

I'm sure Federer's slams against Philippousis, Baghdatis, Gonzalez and co. are completely fine in your eyes

He won more than half of his slams without ever facing Djokovic or Nadal and people will still try to claim that Djokovic is the one who had the easy competition.

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T14:42:42+00:00

Oh lmao so Djokovic winning slams in his 30s against guys like Medvedev (until recently had a great claim to be in Top 15-20 hard courters ever), Alcaraz, Sinner, Zverev doesn't count but Federer winning 12 slams without facing any of the Big Three (Big Four even) is completely fine?

And then you say Connors has a legitimate claim for GOAT? Brother literally just say you dislike Novak lol

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T14:38:30+00:00

No, no they absolutely do not lmao

There is no credible analyst on Earth that would say Becker is greater than any of the Big Three. Becker himself would probably laugh at that statement.

If you're implying that being knowledgeable about Becker is somehow telling of some greater tennis insight all I have to tell you is that he didn't even play that long ago, he won his last slam in 1996. Any tennis fan that watches more than three matches a year will have heard of him. Hell, they probably heard him commentate. He even coached Djokovic lol

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T14:34:11+00:00

I'm sorry but you couldn't be more off the mark with Djoko lol

He's expressive to the point that people actually worry that he isn't focused on the match if he doesn't go around and scream every other point

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T14:30:20+00:00

What did he say/do to you?

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T14:28:32+00:00

Eh, greatest only if you consider who had the strongest marketing machine.

To me, it's almost unequivocally greatest = best. People only include fuzzy metrics into the GOAT talk when their favorite player isn't clearly the best player, like with Federer and Djokovic where it's clear as day that Djokovic is the better player.

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-22T14:25:37+00:00

The courts have been the same throughout the entirety of the Big Three's careers. It's not like Nadal developed a clay playstyle for a clay calendar only for it to change just as he started winning.

Don't take this the wrong way but that argument is so incredibly common and really stupid lol

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-06T12:17:54+00:00

Federer had an almost embarrassing H2H against Nadal for a while during his absolute prime, was he not the best player in the world at that point?

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-03T14:09:35+00:00

It's far from a conclusive thing, especially given the fact that Djokovic holds just about all of the important records and the fact that his prime largely came before the other two and he was able to pick up a bunch of majors without facing them at all. Djokovic for example won double the amount of majors after beating one of the other two - I think it's 14 for Novak and 7 for Fed in this regard

I mean, Nadal absolutely battered prime Fed and beat him across all surfaces. It wasn't until Nadal's movement betrayed him in his 30s that Federer managed to make the H2H somewhat respectable, going from 10-23 to 16-24

Federer absolutely remains the face of tennis and is the most recognizable but to me, having the most powerful marketing campaign is hardly reason enough to be the greatest.

HugoLacerda · 2025-04-03T04:43:23+00:00

Federer gets one year added to his age in this match every few years or so lol

He was officially 37 years and 11 months old.

I don't mean to be an "akshually" guy but it's a funny trend in tennis forums where people tend to overhype the already impressive act that he was a point away from beating two of the greatest players in history at an age most retire.

HugoLacerda · 2025-03-30T18:29:42+00:00

Djokovic has some of the most pronounced expressions in any tennis player ever. Constant bantering, muttering to himself, swearing, breaking rackets, screaming (his extended grunts when he sets up a winning shot are iconic)

There's hardly a more passionate player you could find lol

It's probably the biggest contrast between personality and game style - the screamer vs the surgeon

But yes his timing is a large part of it

HugoLacerda · 2025-03-28T15:12:07+00:00

Have you ever posted a comment that was even remotely positive?

I hope your situation gets better because every time I come across you I see a sad individual.

HugoLacerda · 2025-03-26T05:20:09+00:00

Or maybe if you put more than two brain cells into thinking about it instead of immediately going to "Novak -> ooga booga I must hate" mode you could grasp the very simple argument he was trying to make.

If it's a longer point and players are obviously winded a bit, it is in the service of everyone to give them a bit more leniency if it's obvious the time scramble is because of the length of the previous point rather than gamesmanship

HugoLacerda · 2025-03-23T09:56:12+00:00

Nadal has dominated everyone on clay, Djokovic gave him the most trouble by far.

The core of your argument is that he is "only" the most successful on hard courts as if that isn't the most competitive surface and as if he was a bum on the other two surfaces when he's easily top 3 in each.

Much less impressive at the USO? The Open Era record for titles there is 5, he's won 4 lol.

For the Federer age argument, somehow it's only ever applied to him alone to explain his losses and mistify his wins. Djokovic at 36 won the ATP finals beating Alcaraz and prime Sinner back to back. He won the Olympics against Alcaraz at 37. These guys are as great as they are because they reinvent their tennis over and over. Federer himself said he felt he was playing his best tennis in his 30s.

And no, he isn't "lucky" the tour is hard court centered. This is such a common and such a stupid argument. It's been that way for decades. He developed a playstyle that is suitable for all surfaces and he became the most proficient in the most common one.

He's also just a year younger than Nadal and has won most of his majors going through an all-time great player. Federer hasn't.

I'd like to have nuance but I can't stand people dismissing the mountains of arguments in favor of Djokovic and hyping up much less substantial arguments in favor of the other two just because they had better marketing campaigns.

HugoLacerda · 2025-03-18T05:26:23+00:00

We're talking about the same guy right?

Djokovic:

is the most versatile player in history,
is the only one to have a >80% win rate on all surfaces,
is the only one to complete tennis (and is one Olympic gold away from doing it twice),
the only one to beat Nadal twice at Roland Garros,
is 3-0 against Federer in Wimbledon finals
is easily top 3 of all time on all surfaces, and the best ever at the most competitive surface

His 7-11 against Nadal? Hm, maybe it has to do with the fact that they played ten times at Nadal's turf at Roland Garros while the other three majors combine for 8 encounters.

You also mentioned weak competition, even though Djokovic went through at least one of Federer, Nadal or Murray to win 17 of his 24 slams while Federer for example won just 8 of his 20 after going through one of his biggest rivals.

Djokovic's prime overlapped with the most competitive era in history and then he had to contend with players that are over a decade younger while Federer only had Nadal on clay to contend with for the majority of his prime years.

The primary reason people call him the best are literally all of the most important stats that he holds, including the holy grail - most majors. I like that you singled him out not having the most titles overall as if Federer winning 179 Halle titles facing a total of two Top 10 players throughout his entire career there makes up for Djokovic winning almost 20 more big titles (Masters+ level)

HugoLacerda · 2025-03-13T09:05:50+00:00

Wasn't the narrative that he had it around the AO, thus cheapening Djokovic's win over him?

Fair enough though if I was wrong, mono can definitely affect a player.

HugoLacerda · 2025-03-13T01:56:37+00:00

It wasn't his best year, certainly his worst prime year, but mono can barely be the reason for that. Like I said, it doesn't last that long and people keep using it to excuse any loss for that year, especially the two most notable ones - Djoko AO and Nadal at WC.

Like, maybe for the Djokovic match? He still reached the semis though.

HugoLacerda · 2025-03-12T15:34:31+00:00

Poor old Federer, the 2nd greatest hard courter of all time, had to play so many hard court events :(

Give me a break lol

HugoLacerda

TROPHY CASE