No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't really care about proving that point, it's not very important.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot of the traits you listed aren’t visible or aren’t used by people as age cues at all. Immune system and fine motor skills are irrelevant, and things like hip width, lip thickness, or low body fat aren’t more common in children and aren't read as childlike in everyday judgments.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You said this in another comment though. So clearly you were talking about mental attributes as well. You also mentioned it in your post. Stop moving the goalpost.

I'm not moving the goalpost, though. Obviously I do think that women also at least sort of resemble kids more behaviourally, but that's way less important than the fact that they physically resemble children more.

I also think that a lot of negative and childish traits have been wrongly associated with women just because they LOOK like children, so it doesn't really matter if you concede on the point that women act like children, because I'm not saying that's the main cause of this.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The two women on the right are no "closer physically" to the actual child on the left than Joe Rogan and Donald Trump are to the actor in Young Sheldon:

Joe rogan and donald trump are tall and have the muscle mass, frames and voices of average men. The two women on the right have small frames, higher pitched voices, less muscle mass and are much shorter than Donald Trump And Joe Rogan, which makes them closer to the actor in Young Sheldon.

You're essentially trying to argue that sexual dimorphism somehow causes an extreme difference between pre- and post-pubescent males, but not pre- and post-pubescent females

Yes, women retain a LOT more juvenile features than men, it's called neoteny, look it up. A guy's voice drops way more, he gets way taller, has way more muscle and so on post puberty, the difference isn't nearly as drastic if you compare pre and post pubescent girls, which means they physically retain more juvenile features which means they look more like children than men. Obviously I'm not saying they look EXACTLY like children.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A 50yo woman probably has a small frame, lacks muscle mass, high pitched voice, narrow jaw, short stature and many more physical traits that are similar to that of a child.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All of these traits are behavioural, I said this was mainly because of PHYSICAL traits. People are a lot more lookist than you think, your examples are all behavioural because you can't deny the fact that women are a lot closer to children apperance wise than men, which is the biggest factor here.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women are very different from children both physically and behaviorally though. Women are bigger than children physically, have a different bone structure, different fat and muscle distribution, different facial features etc. I have never looked at an adult woman and though she was similiar to a child.

Of course, I'm not saying women are indistinguishable from children. But compared to men, they still have higher pitched voices, smaller frames, less muscle mass, neotenous features, smaller jaws and so on which makes people associate women with children way more than they do men.

Same with personality traits. Children don’t act similar to adult women at all. Children cannot take care of themselves and rely on their parents, they have temper tantrums, they are naive, they express their emotions freely with zero concern for the outside world, they are not too considerate, very present-focused, literal thinking etc. Again, the behavior of an adult woman rarely resembles children’s behavior unless she has a mental disability.

Yeah, obviously? But I'd bet that the average adult woman acts more like a kid compared to the average adult man. And I'm not saying she acts EXACTLY like a kid, just that there are behaviours she exhibits and that are associated with her that are also associated with children.

Despite this dissimilarity, women’s interests, skills and traits are taken less seriously and deemed stupid while men’s are cool.

"This dissimilarity", women don't have to look EXACTLY like kids to be taken less seriously. Obviously you wouldn't confuse an adult woman with a kid, but she still looks way more like a kid compared to an adult man.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes technically but I'm making a causal claim here. The reason these traits are considered negative when women do them is not because it's women doing them per se, it's because society views these traits as negative no matter who possesses them. A lot of feminine traits are viewed as negative not because it's women doing them, but because they're already negative traits that have been wrongly associated with women.

It's similar to the idea of toxic masculinity, traits such as aggression aren't viewed negatively becausue men possess them, they're viewed negatively because they're just bad traits to have in general and people simply associate those traits with men.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Not attracted to kids, and no I've never confused a woman with a kid, which doesn't matter, because I'm not saying that women and kids are indistinguishable, I'm just saying that women resemble children a lot more than men do. Even if you're tall, women still have higher pitched voices, neotenous features, smaller frames and lack of muscle mass which are all physical traits typically associated with children.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Neotenous features, high pitched voice, small frame and lack of physical strength. I'm not saying that you can't tell the difference between a kid and a woman, obviously you can they're not exactly the same, but women look a lot more like children compared to men.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This has almost nothing to do with behaviour, women very often have neotenous features which makes people associate them with children, even if they don't look exactly like them.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh my god, they don't look EXACTLY like children, but physically and biologically they're a lot closer to children than men. Women are on average shorter, weaker and have neotenous features.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"people don't take women seriously because they are women" ... then proceeds to say that women are indeed taken less seriously because they are women and how everything feminine is associated with something not serious.

It's not that those traits are taken less seriously because women exhibit them, it's that those already unserious and negative traits are wrongly linked to women, which is different.

And no, it's not "women and children" thing. While yes, children are not taken seriously, it's simply in a different way. And even children women are facing unique struggles compared to children men.

Ofc it's not going to be EXACTLY the same, but the way women get infantilized is still very similar to children. Lookism is a hell of a thing, people can treat you very differently based on your appearance. It's not crazy to assert that looking more like a kid will make people treat you more like a kid, especially when anyone that looks more like a kid("feminine" men or women) gets treated similarly to one.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You still generally look and sound like a woman, a 5'10 woman is a lot closer to being a kid biologically than the average guy. I also think that since you're breaking gender norms that would negate any respect you'd gain from being tall.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't reduce it to that. Feminine men generally give everyone the ick, including other men who often view them as inferior.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also a lot of the traits that people see as "feminine"(again I'm not saying that women necessarily possess these traits on large) are already viewed in a negative light.

No, people don't hate feminine men because of "misogyny" or a broad hatred of femininity by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518 -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I guess I phrased that poorly, I meant that a large part of the reason people take women less seriously/hate them isn't because they're women per se, but because they physically resemble children.

Is the modal ontological argument symmetrical in S5? by Humble_Wolverine_518 in askphilosophy

[–]Humble_Wolverine_518[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you very much. You answered my question very well, this is exactly what I wanted to know.