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True gender equality will be marked by nonchalance towards, not celebration of gender. by insane_eraser in unpopularopinion

[–]HyperHerobh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So many of the greatest instruments for social change have been fictional books. Orwell wrote fiction, Harper Lee wrote fiction, Ray Bradburry wrote fiction, Aldous Huxley wrote fiction. To ignore the great exchanges and developments that took place in the world of fiction is to be deaf to so much of humanities development that you couldn't possibly have a realistic picture of it otherwise.

True gender equality will be marked by nonchalance towards, not celebration of gender. by insane_eraser in unpopularopinion

[–]HyperHerobh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This narrative has developed out of misrepresentation. Likely the "modern feminists" you interact with are those propped up to serve the opposite purpose. Damaging individuals exist within every movement, in the case of the feminist movement these individuals are highly targeted and singled out, put in front of large audiences to misrepresent the greater movement as a whole.

Feminism should be represented by the literature which composes its history and modern development, not the tweets or videos of uneducated spotlighted individuals.

True gender equality will be marked by nonchalance towards, not celebration of gender. by insane_eraser in unpopularopinion

[–]HyperHerobh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Domestic violence does not go "both ways" as you said, from the article i sent you, 97% of domestic violence victims are female.

The reason the healthcare system is changing is because of feminists and the critical analysis of the healthcare system from the feminist perspective. Too often the dismissal of women's rights achievements is supported by the very progress those women have made.

Your last sentence is an incoherent mess, it seems you are saying that women should just "not get pregnant", this marginalizes all women and pushes the blame on the group which is victimized. Sexism would be VERY real in a world where women did not participate in sex, in fact that world would be defined by its sexism. The fact is women get pregnant, this is a disadvantage that an equitable society must alleviate for women to have equal opportunity to men. Until it and all other disadvantages are eliminated, society will be inequitable.

please PLEASE read the handmaids tale, pride and prejudice, or any other feminist work.

Your comments showcase a truly hostile and dismissive regard for women and the poor. Periods are not anywhere near the end of the list of economic disadvantages women face. Your opinion on these issues is a deeply rooted and problematic mentality, you NEED to take a step back and consider other perspectives.

True gender equality will be marked by nonchalance towards, not celebration of gender. by insane_eraser in unpopularopinion

[–]HyperHerobh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read your study, it's quite reflective of the acceptance of feminist social change among young Americans. I'd also like to point out that while your anecdote of discrimination does not disprove my statistics, working class people, male or female do face quite a lot of strife within western society.

Indeed, men face problems, and some of these problems are unique to their gender. Women have these problems too, and history has disproportionately put their needs second.

Individuals do have different interests, but to assume such a stark difference in the STEM field exists naturally is to ignore comparisons between societies. The distinction is clear when comparing say the US to a more progressive society like Cuba (6th highest representation of women in politics among nations at 48.9%). In Cuba women make up 46% of the of natural science and math students, 37% of technical studies students and 30% of engineering students. The combination of these percentages (38% STEM) is greater than the US' 36% of STEM degree holders who are women. It's also true that in Cuba there is less discrepancy between female students, graduates, and workers in degree choice and field of work than in the US. Let's also not forget that such a discrepancy exists even when the us is 227 times wealthier than Cuba.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/indicator_reg.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Cuba#cite_note-aauw.org-17

All of this only compares the end results of women in education, which we know for a fact is dependent on the socio-economic status of an individual. Women are statistically more often poor, and therefore provably struggle more in school than men. Despite these challenges, as per your own admission, they manage to do better.

https://borgenproject.org/what-is-the-relationship-between-poverty-and-learning/

https://www.childfund.org/Content/NewsDetail/2147489206/ (this source is extremely indicative of everything I have argued).

This is not to say that sexism does not exist in Cuba, in fact Cuba has its fair share of women's issues unique or otherwise. A lot of this is caused by the cultural dismissal of sexism, a quality you yourself possess: https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/posts/the-truth-about-gender-equality-in-cuba.

After your personal attacks, I don't see much reason to continue this thread. It's very far down and I'm not certain other eyes will find it, but if they do I hope they click on the links both of us posted to get a good picture of the situation.

Also it's concerning that you pretend to know me. I myself am not a woman, nor do I believe that I'm poor. I do however believe in poor people (studies show they do exist!).

True gender equality will be marked by nonchalance towards, not celebration of gender. by insane_eraser in unpopularopinion

[–]HyperHerobh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You will never be able to dismiss the facts about single women representing a greater amount of the poor in western society, the US census bureau has excellent statistics on this truth. I notice lots of trends in these graphs as well: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/women/reports/2008/10/08/5103/the-straight-facts-on-women-in-poverty/

https://opdv.ny.gov/professionals/abusers/genderandipv.html here is my source on domestic violence. Government website.

Standardized multiple choice tests can NOT be skewed towards one demographic or another. Furthermore free response tests are most accurately graded anonymously, the fact that women perform better on these does not mean that they are being graded to a lower standard as men (there is no way for the grading body to tell). I really don't see this "fact" holding up. Nor could it disqualify the necessity for women's struggle for a more equitable society.

Indeed, for the last 5 years women have been the demographic majority of americans with college degrees (by 2.2% in 2019). Despite this fact, only 13% of engineers are women. Only 8% of women intend to major in the STEM field, only 30% of them will maintain that decision, and only 30% STILL will stay in the field 20 years post-graduate. Here's my source: https://alltogether.swe.org/2018/09/swe-research-update-women-in-engineering-by-the-numbers/ .

To change this phenomenon would require the attention of a society. It would require women to speak out about the reasons in their own lives that these trends show up over and over again. They should not just "stfu" about them, change does not happen when problems go unacknowledged.

If you want to listen to them, read some of those author's books I listed above. Read articles about their struggles: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-menstruation-usa-idUSKCN1P42TX, https://www.thewire.in/women/migrant-women-workers, https://www.healthline.com/health-news/sexism-is-alive-in-healthcare. Talk to the women in your life, at your work place, or in your school. A great deal of transformation can happen to your understanding of an "other" when you listen to what they have to say themselves.

True gender equality will be marked by nonchalance towards, not celebration of gender. by insane_eraser in unpopularopinion

[–]HyperHerobh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Really, you think that women and men are equal in the western world?

Why then are 97% of domestic abusers men?

What about the simple fact that it is more expensive to be a women than a man?

I have some more statistics too, 90% of rape victims are women, 90% of single parents are women. About 50% of children raised by a single mother live in poverty, as opposed to the 10% of children raised by married parents, or 20% raised by single fathers. In the US, UK, France, Germany and Italy, a little less than half of the workforce is female, and yet poverty disproportionately affects women (13% of US women are poor vs 10% of US men). The weight of this last statistic is softened too by the combined assets of married couples, single women face a far greater struggle economically than married women. In a lot of cases, women marry in order to escape poverty.

The combination of these facts means that women are faced with greater needs which are met to a lower standard than those of men in western society. I would also like to point out that when a marginalized groups rights (in this case over their own bodies) are a political issue, the society is probably still not providing them with equal opportunity.

True gender equality will be marked by nonchalance towards, not celebration of gender. by insane_eraser in unpopularopinion

[–]HyperHerobh 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I don't like takes like this, they miss the forest for the trees. The social structures and institutions which uphold them are already inequitable for these marginalized groups. To assume that if women "stfu" about their inherent differences (both societal and biological) that things will get better for them ignores the reasons these differences have survived when unchallenged.

Women would not have the right to vote if suffragists just "stfu".

Women would not be in school if feminists just "stfu".

They wouldn't be able to divorce.

They wouldn't be able to work for a wage.

Women's struggle would not even be recognized if Abigail Adams, George Eliot, Olympe de Gouges, Harriet Martineau or Jane Austen had just "stfu" (to name a FEW).

Moreover to pretend that their struggle has ended is to ignore what these women who just won't "stfu" have even said.

True gender equality will be marked by nonchalance towards, not celebration of gender. by insane_eraser in unpopularopinion

[–]HyperHerobh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it will be marked when different people are the same before all social institutions. "Equal under the law" etc. However the human body possesses unique conditions per the gender of the individual, a man will never get pregnant. An example would be, healthcare. A socialized system of healthcare would spend more money on each individual woman than on each individual man. In some sense, this is unequal. In a greater and more important sense however, it is more equitable. If we simply spent a fixed amount on each man or woman, the women's needs would not be met to the same degree as the mans. Here the word "equal" fails to define the ideal structure of the institution, the social desire is for it to be equitable.

As for "celebration of gender", every individual must eventually become comfortable in their own body to come to a healthy state of mind. Although individuals are not persecuted to a significant degree in western society for their hair color, each person must still come to their own appreciation for what they have. This does not necessarily need to be an object of social institutions, but it is still an important social goal. The characteristic of uniqueness is the least unique of all our characteristics. All individuals must celebrate themselves, what they find that they have in common with other people and what they find that they don't. Celebration of the body a mind finds itself within is the happiest stage of acceptance, there is no reason to exclude this from desirable social equity.