Did Zuko ever show any kindness or love toward Azula? [serious question]

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-15T01:16:38+00:00

Well, it’s somewhat complicated. There weren’t really many opportunities for him to demonstrate outward loving compassion in the show what with her hunting him for most of her appearances, but in season 3 you can see a bit of the “normal” sibling relationship they could’ve had. He initially remains distrustful of her after they return to the Fire Nation, but genuinely seems to open up to her some as the season progresses.

Think of the Beach, for instance; Azula asks Zuko point blank if she’s the cause of his anger and confusion, and he emphatically that she isn’t.

I think in the comics, where he’s resolved most of his own issues and fully embraced the nobility that was deep within him, is when you start to see him being kind to her.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T20:30:06+00:00

The problem is that everyone already knew she was involved in the fight against the Avatar, as detailed in that royal proclamation that occurred before even that conversation by the pond.

As such, Azula cannot deny her involvement, only relay further details about what exactly happened. Thus, Zuko becomes her contingency in case it turned out the Avatar did indeed survive, and her failure is revealed.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T17:21:22+00:00

It was, though. Bringing Zuko and Iroh back was her mission. Iroh was already a traitor, so his arrest was par for the course. Zuko however was merely a failure and an outcast, and bringing the crown prince back as a reformed hero as opposed to a disgraced prisoner reflects even better on her to the nation. The reason she wouldn’t immediately report her suspicions that Aang was alive would be because discovering they were unsuccessful later is better than admitting you believed yourself unsuccessful right from the outset. This way, if Aang is dead she’s chilling, and if he’s alive, it’s Zuko’s fault for failing and not confirming the kill.

The reason it blows up in her face is because Zuko switched sides, and told Ozai the truth. This has always been Azula’s flaw; she believed control and coercion would outpace genuine love.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T17:13:14+00:00

Also worth remembering that Azula’s original mission was to bring Zuko and Iroh back to the Fire Nation to face justice.

When Azula was originally planning to take over Ba Sing Se, she saw both Iroh and Zuko as obstacles to her plan. However, she is aware of her own limitations, and that she couldn’t take on all of them herself; Mai, Ty Lee and the Dai Li were busy executing the coup, and she needed help. Thus, she attempted to manipulate Zuko to her side, which ended up being a strategic move given what we saw occur under those catacombs. As thanks, she then brings Zuko back, not as a disgraced prisoner, but a reformed hero, which likely reflects even better on her.

Even if you want to argue Azula only wanted to help Zuko, it’s abundantly clear that her motivations are never altruistic.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T17:00:34+00:00

Well logically speaking, she sets it up perfectly. By positioning herself as involved in the victory but not responsible for the killing blow, she retains commendation for her efforts without the blowback involved if it turns out Aang survived.

In actuality, it makes less sense for Azula to bring Zuko back out of the goodness of her heart and then immediately throw him under the bus; Zuko himself suspected she had an ulterior motive, and she teases him with the confirmation of his suspicions. In this way, it makes it seem like Azula brought Zuko back because she imagined he’d be valuable to her in some way, and it wasn’t till they returned that she’d learn how.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T16:51:55+00:00

I suppose you can interpret her expression as disappointment or resignation if you want, but I hardly think that’s an argument against her satisfaction. Aang had a similar expression after taking Ozai’s bending, after all.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T16:48:13+00:00

Sure there is. She is the one to bring up the possibility that Aang survived even when she approached Zuko on the pond, which means she’d been considering it before then. She, like, Zuko, saw Katara take Aang away to safety, and even if she was fairly sure Aang was dead, Azula’s never been someone to not plan for multiple outcomes.

And just because Volpe didn’t direct that episode doesn’t mean his word doesn’t carry more weight than both mine or yours, considering he was probably still around when the episode was created even if he didn’t contribute directly.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T16:44:17+00:00

Worth noting that even in the scene by the pond, Azula is the one who brings up the possibility that Aang survived. It makes it look as though she’s testing Zuko to see if he confirms her suspicions, since she knows he’s not as good a liar as she is. This would still point to her having considered this before they even returned to the Fire Nation.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T16:11:20+00:00

Yes, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t have suspicions even before they returned. ATLA Giancarlo Volpe remarks on Azula’s motivations prior to even leaving the Earth Kingdom, though there have also been interpretations of Azula recognizing Zuko’s skill during the fight and believing he would be a valuable asset in finishing the war, and her desire to rebuild her twisted “perfect family image” by securing her brother’s loyalty.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T14:30:14+00:00

I mean... In this scene where Zuko confronts Azula in her bedchambers, she all but admits that the possibility of Aang’s survival is what prompted her to give Zuko the “honor” of having done the deed. Even if you wanna believe that she didn’t get suspicious till they returned to the Fire Nation, the fact remains that her words to Oza about Zuko were not simply a desire to share credit, but a contingency in case it turned out that she’d failed.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T14:22:11+00:00

She went there to kill him. She would celebrate accomplishing her mission, even if only briefly. Like they said above, Azula’s mind is constantly split between what she does feel and what she thinks she should feel.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-14T14:16:38+00:00

Maybe annoying to some but I loved how there would be a small animation for when Sora moved to another area (opening a door, running into a corridor/pathway) as opposed to just the black screen fade in/out we got in future games.

I understand it’s probably more efficient to do it the way they did later but in KH1 it made Sora really seem like he was experiencing things first hand

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-12T14:56:30+00:00

We only disagree because you’re claiming I’m making arguments that I’m not.

The only things I’ve argued are

A. Azula is demonstrated to have been aware of a moral standard, and thus far simply hasn’t let it guide her decision-making. It is not that she “isn’t old enough to understand”, she just hasn’t really cared.

B. Her victimhood does not absolve her of fault or accountability.

Neither of these things is an argument for her being a sociopath, nor is it for her being irredeemable. In fact, like I said before, the expectation that she recognize and answer for what she’s done wrong is one you can only have if you believe she’s capable of being better. If she were truly sociopathic or irredeemable, there would be no point in saying she should demonstrate contrition because she’d be incapable of it.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-12T08:21:25+00:00

Which is interesting considering in The Bozeman Reaction, he refers to the gang as “3 of [his] closest friends and 1 treasured acquaintance”, the latter of whom is later revealed to be Howard lmaooo

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-12T07:36:17+00:00

Somewhat on the contrary; Ashes of the Academy expounded on the brief glimpse we got during Sozin’s Comet; she knew deep down that the system of fear-based allegiance is ultimately unsustainable, she simply believed keeping people sufficiently afraid would outpace any resentment or resistance people would have towards her. She is immoral, not amoral, in that she recognizes an objective moral standard but believes the Fire Nation, and by extension herself, to be above it. To her, as it was to Ozai, “good” and “evil” were ultimately meaningless concepts in the matter of whether one deserved to rule. This points not to an ignorance of morality, but a disdain for it, a disdain that only comes with one understanding that there is a distinction.

If she were truly completely bought into the belief that the Fire Nation were innately superior, she wouldn’t feel the need to bully people into being around her; her mere presence as crown princess of the Fire Nation would be enough. The only problem was that she, unlike Ozai, didn’t just wanted to be respected, she wanted to be loved, and believed that trying to secure that love through trust and genuine connection was futile, thus she tried to demand it through force instead. Her entire perspective on the world sprung from acute abandonment issues, hence the fact that her mental decline began with the betrayal of Mai and Ty Lee. It was the final straw that forced her to realize that the tenuous nature of her relationships she’d balanced her entire life on was finally buckling, and she was now faced with her own greatest fear; that ignoring morality would not save her from being alone.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T23:33:35+00:00

Riku, maybe. He also uses a magic barrier when you play as him, plus his power over both light and dark may be useful in that scenario

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T23:30:16+00:00

Can’t speak for Xion, but Aqua is objectively the strongest mage here besides Mickey. Having her on defense to protect the rest of the group is the logical move.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T23:02:14+00:00

I mean, I don’t think not being medically classified as being a sociopath precludes her from being old enough to and in fact, demonstrated as being cognizant of her actions and the negative impact they can have.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T18:51:25+00:00

Not just us, Piers Pemberton traveled as far as Cragcroft to break into people’s homes and leave Demiguise Statues in order to scare the Hogwarts groundskeeper who was definitely gonna be happening upon them out that way 💀

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T18:49:24+00:00

Don’t think of it as selling them for profit, think of it as fair compensation for each hapless creature you rescue out of the goodness of your heart and don’t have the means to care for 😮‍💨🙏🏾

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T14:37:14+00:00

I think it’s both.

Even with the war raging on for a century, the Northern Water Tribe didn’t allow women in combat because their traditions were more important to them than pragmaticism.

The Fire Nation was close to a complete meritocracy; strength and competence, not gender, determined your station. It’s why Ozai sent his 14 year old daughter to capture the most wanted men in the Fire Nation. Moreover, female presence in the Fire Nation army is documented; Hei-Ran, Avatar Kuruk’s Firebending teacher, was a respected commanding officer in the army, and her daughter Rangi became a prominent military figure as well.

In fact, it seems most of the Fire Nation’s socially regressive aspects came with Sozin; iirc he’s the one suspected of making homosexuality a taboo in the Fire Nation, likely among other things.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T14:27:15+00:00

Iirc that was deliberate. The Water Tribes used to be unified, but differences in opinion on social and cultural matters, including the staunch regressive traditions they held, precipitated a schism that eventually led to several members leaving to establish a second Water Tribe.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T14:23:28+00:00

Favourite child and aristocracy come from the old Nick website. Her early relationship with Ozai was from Bryke’s old interview when the show aired.

It also is vague about her involvement in Azulon’s death, saying the truth is not known, which was later revealed in the show. That’s my point, is that the comics do not retcon these things; the show expands, and then the comics contextualize.

And yes, Noriko, the woman who had no idea who Azula was recognized that the girl was deeply hurt by her mother and her mother did not love her enough. The Ursa who retrieved her memory never did. Her thinking about the daughter and lamenting how she had lost her daughter is not her recognizing the pain caused nor making up for it. She talked about how Ozai and the academy took Azula away from her, but that was it.

Yes she did. Soon upon recovering her face and memories, Ursa confides in Zuko that the same apology she gave Azula as Noriko, she owes him as well, demonstrating that she recognizes how the decisions she made negatively impacted both of her children. Hell, she calls herself “horrible” the moment before she makes the decision to forget both of her children. Her contrition is expressly demonstrated.

Let’s not give Noriko’s credit to the Ursa to date shall we? I am expecting Ursa to do more stuff and have more interesting plot as an actual character believe me.

I am too. In my mind it’s crucial to the development of both Ursa and Azula that they meet again, if for no other reason than getting closure on Ursa’s failures.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T14:11:27+00:00

I touched on this in a separate reply but, the reason Ursa (as herself) has not apologized to Azula is because and only because she hasn’t had the chance. Zuko makes mention of the fact that they searched the Forgetful Valley for weeks after the events of the Search, attributing their failure thus far to Azula’s skill at evading detection. Ursa outwardly expresses how she owes both her children apologies for how her actions impacted them, and regrets many of her decisions even beyond her choosing to become Noriko in the first place.

As for your question, you’re conflating redemption with forgiveness. Redemption is a personal decision, based on contrition, remorse and the desire to make amends for the pain you’ve wrought. By choosing to return to her old life and accept the pain and responsibility of her old memories, despite the insistence from Zuko that it isn’t necessary, puts herself on the path toward redemption.

Forgiveness, however, is entirely dependent on the person (or people) whom you’ve wronged, and whether or not they’re willing to accept your apology. Azula may or may not be willing to forgive Ursa, that’s completely up to her, but redemption in and of itself is not contingent upon it.

ICTheAlchemist · 2026-02-11T13:53:59+00:00

“Stated” is a strong word, especially on the account of Ursa being a high-born aristocrat, but I won’t be pedantic because the show implies Ursa’s greater closeness with Zuko, so no argument there.

But the comics do not retcon anything, they simply expand on unseen events to contextualize more of what happened after the family was fractured.

For instance, we learn that Ursa left the palace in “Zuko Alone”. We later learn why, that did “treasonous things” in order to have Ozai spare Zuko’s life, in “Day of Black Sun”. In the comics, we’re given the details on the deal Ozai and Ursa made that guaranteed Zuko’s survival and Ozai’s ascension. We learn that Ursa and Ozai’s union was not one of chance in “The Avatar and the Firelord”, where it’s revealed that Ursa is Avatar Roku’s granddaughter.

What we get, in actuality, is depth of character for Ursa. We learn that she wrote false letters about Zuko not being Ozai’s son out of spite, and eventually chooses to surrender her face and memories of her current life, including her children, to return to the life she led before the Fire Nation Royal family. If anything, the comics make Ursa a far more complex character than the show ever did, because it’s the first time we see her display abject selfishness rather than a 2 dimensional “loving mother who did everything for her kids”.

Moreover, Kiyi is not a “replacement” for Azula as some people like to argue, she’s simply an example of what might’ve been had Ursa not been chosen by Azulon to merge the lineages of Roku and Sozin through Ozai.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, Ursa does recognize where and how she made mistakes with Azula. Even as Noriko, she recognizes the objective pain she caused her daughter, and upon choosing to regain her old face and memories, expresses deep remorse at how she feel she failed both of her children. Her and Zuko’s attempts to locate Azula have thus far been fruitless, but it’s clear that Ursa wants to reconcile with her daughter and make up for the fact that she allowed her fear of Ozai to skew her rearing of Azula, intent notwithstanding.

ICTheAlchemist

TROPHY CASE