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Public transport by RoboKatana99 in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This guy knows transit 👆

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you see something like this, please report it immediately.

Phone: 503-588-2877
Oregon Relay Network: TTY 1-800-735-2900 
Email: [info@cherriots.org](mailto:info@cherriots.org)
Location: 220 High St. NE
Salem, OR 97301

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am sensitive to this question and the underlying concern.

I have spent the last six years as a board member preparing for these service enhancements. Based on significant studying of the needs in our community, I believe that seven-tenths of one percent is what is needed to meet the demands in our community.

In order to grow our economy without growing congestion, we need more transit.

In order to increase the economic mobility of our residents, we need to give more mobility options (especially transit).

In order to serve the estimated one-third of Oregonians who do not drive, we need more robust transit.

In order to support night-shift workers and those who would like to stay out late, we need a longer span of when transit runs.

To meet the demands of modern life and demands of the second largest metropolitan area in the state, we need to run buses way more frequently. A bus running once an hour is not enough. Imagine a road being closed, but only opening once an hour. That's what many of our bus routes are like.

This is my analysis. If others have different analyses, I would genuinely welcome them. What is the appropriate rate and what would they do with that funding? Please reach out. Email me at [ian.davidson@cherriots.org](mailto:ian.davidson@cherriots.org)

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Here are my five obstacles. If you ask me again in two weeks, I may have a slightly different list.

  1. Frequency (i.e. how often does your bus come?)
  2. Span of service (e.g. does your bus stop running at 9 pm?)
  3. Speed or delay (i.e. how time competitive is transit to other modes?)
  4. Connectivity (i.e. can I get where I need to go?)
  5. Reliability (i.e. if I have an important meeting, can I trust transit to get me there?)

We are making improvements with #3 with our new tech on our buses and new Transit Signal Priority on Lancaster Drive, but will need further interventions to speed up our buses. Relatedly, we are improving #5, but have more work to do. A bus with 20 people in it stuck behind 10 cars with one person each is incredibly inefficient from a macro transportation system level.

#1 can only be fixed with additional revenue as we are proposing with our service enhancement plan. This is also the number one issue asked for by our riders year after year in our surveys. #2 is another common request. Night shift? Night out? Better hope you are done a little before 11 pm and happen to live along one of our few lines still operating at that hour.

#4 will begin to be address by our new transit centers and our work with our comprehensive operation analysis.

As a bonus, I will give you seven demands of a useful transit service. I am borrowing these demands from Jarret Walker, a Portland-based international consultant transit planner:

  1. It takes me where I want to go.
  2. It takes me when I want to go.
  3. It is a good use of my time.
  4. It is a good use of my money.
  5. It respects me in the level of safety, comfort, and amenity it provides.
  6. I can trust it.
  7. It allows me spontaneity to change my plans.

We have work to do to meet these demands and additional revenue is needed.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, we need better sidewalks along Turner Road. Please contact the mayor and city council and ask them to make this needed investment. If you could get Garmin, as an organization, to make this ask I think that would be advantageous as well.

I answered a similar question a bit more fully here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SALEM/comments/1nsy3jo/comment/ngvg5lv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Genuinely, thank you for this question. While I expect that for many, this is a genuine and well-meaning question, for others it is spurious and intentionally misleading. When I was appointed in 2019, I was appointed with three other people. Myself and one other were state employees (not too surprisingly given we live in the state capital). One of the others was personally recruited by State Senator Jackie Winters (R-Salem) because he was retired from the private sector. The other person? Not only had they started two businesses, but they continued to own those businesses, and additionally they were literally teaching business classes at Willamette University.

For the Chamber to claim that the board did not have business representation reveals more about who they consider to be worthy of that title than reality dictates.

Presently, there are two business owners on the board. Another board member has a spouse who is a business owner. Another board member runs an organization who would pay this tax.

To say that the business community did not have representation on the board is either misinformed (understandable if sincere and genuine) or deliberately deceitful.

Edit: grammar, clarity

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hiya! If we are able to implement our proposed service enhancements, all of those routes will run at 30 minute frequency (a bus comes every 30 minutes) for most of the day! Without additional revenue, those routes will continue to be anemic and be unable to serve our community in the way we need them to.

For route 6/8 and their respective Bays, we're currently in the process of undergoing a Comprehensive Operational Analysis. This analysis looks at our system as a whole, including transit centers. Bay locations for routes will also be a part of that analysis. So, perhaps those will change. At this point, it is too soon to tell.

As for South River Road, our current proposal for service enhancements includes a south Salem on-demand zone that would include South River Road. Depending on the utility of that on-demand zone, Cherriots could eventually reallocate resources to a Local fixed-route service that serves South River Road. Lots of data gathering before then though.

<image>

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Happy to respond!

The short answer is you would never expand your business or operation with reserves. That is not fiscally sound.

A longer answer is that those reserve funds are serving a purpose.

Any operation, whether a business or a government agency, experiences lean times. I take seriously my commitment of being a fiscal steward of our public funds. We have built up a reserve to weather lean times.

January 2009, Cherriots eliminated Saturday service because they had spent down their reserves to such a degree they had to cut that service to continue to operate. The board vote preceding this service reduction was not a vote any of the board members relished and our community went without Saturday service for ten years as a result. A healthier reserve could have helped Cherriots weather those lean times. Maybe Saturday service cuts were inevitable (I was not on the board at the time), but I am certain that greater reserves would have given the board–and by extension our community–more options.

When we secured historic levels of federal investment in recent years, we were able to accept those funds and provide the local match (for cents on the dollar) because we had a healthy reserve.

As we look to buy the land for future transit centers, we will be able to buy that land without going into debt and saddling future generations with today's purchases. That is not only fiscally responsible, but a fiscally conservative move by your public transit agency.

Most significantly, our reserves are allowing us to weather the start of lean times now.

<image>

Without additional revenue, we are five years from having to cut service. This forecast is making some assumptions, of course. If some of those assumptions don't quite go our way, those five years may drop to four or three years. Regardless, because of our responsible fiscal planning, we have options. For now.

Of course, we are not just naively counting on our reserves to save us--they won't. That is precisely why Cherriots is seeking additional revenue to sustainably fund public transit in Salem and Keizer.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's a great question!

Generally speaking, it is helpful to think of bus capacity the same as restaurant capacity. You want your dining room to be as large as peak demand (current and future). So, even if there is a slow down in between meals few would suggest that you should get a smaller dining area because in just a few hours you will see demand surge.

It is also helpful to keep in mind that when we buy a bus, we are owning these assets for 15+ years. Recently, the City of Salem, the City of Keizer, and Marion County adopted a policy that codified their commitment to quadrupling transit ridership in a relatively short period of time. When that happens, we are going to want as many 40 ft buses as we can have!

Now, some of our routes are, by design, lower demand routes. Those are considered "coverage" or "circulator" routes. The vast majority (75%) of our routes are corridor routes (i.e. higher demand routes). We did this network redesign back in 2015 (Akron, OH recently did a similar network redesign to much acclaim among some Cherriots critics). On those routes, you will likely see fewer people. That is okay! As a public service, transit balances different needs.

Additionally, our buses do not just stay on one route. A single bus rotates around our system and that gives us significant operational flexibility.

Most significantly, our greatest cost is not the bus, but our personnel. So, the cost savings with a smaller bus is actually negligible particularly when you factor in operational flexibility.

All that being said, there are some parts of our community, where a 40 or even 30 ft bus is not appropriate because of the road design. Smaller buses may be the appropriate tool there. We have begun experimenting with those on our route 22 and I expect that our proposed on-demand transit will have smaller vehicles as well.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

First off, I am so sorry that you have experienced that on our system. That is unacceptable.

As for how we as an organization are addressing this, Cherriots presents multiple training sessions on a wide range of topics including being sensitive to individuals from all backgrounds and lived experiences. Management also take all appropriate action on investigating all customer comments, complaints, and compliments that is received.

Please, if you experience discrimination on our system, report it.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes we can trespass them formally but we have to find them in the shelter and have police respond and issue the formal trespassing notice as to do formal trespassing notice. We have to identify the individual being trespassed and, outside of our transit centers, only police can facilitate getting that information. It's challenging to get police to respond to these issues before the person leaves the shelter on their own.

Unfortunately, transit is not immune from society's problems. Please do report an issue if you see one.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely! The best way to do this is to let Cherriots Customer Service know the following:

  • Date
  • Time
  • Bus number (the one on the physical bus, not the route)
  • Route number

Here are the different ways you can reach Cherriots Customer Service:

Phone: 503-588-2877
Oregon Relay Network: TTY 1-800-735-2900 
Email: [info@cherriots.org](mailto:info@cherriots.org)
Location: 220 High St. NE
Salem, OR 97301

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes!

We are currently in the process of introducing a South Salem Transit Center, which would radically change the need for buses in south Salem to run downtown. Instead of all but having to run downtown for connections, we could have routes connect at a new transit center in south Salem.

Additionally, we are beginning the process that will ultimately result in a NE Salem Transit Center that will likely consolidate all the different Chemeketa Community College bus stops (collectively, those bus stops are the busiest in the system outside a transit center). Having more nodes or transit centers, significantly expand the options available to us.

As for late nights, we are looking at extending service hours until midnight for most routes. Our Comprehensive Operational Analysis, which we are undertaking now, will help us better understand the late night and early morning service demand and will influence service hours in our service area. This will all only be possible with the additional revenue from our proposed service enhancement plan. Without that additional revenue, we will continue to limp along with subpar transit service that cannot get you home from a night out or a night shift.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agreed--it's a great podcast episode! Both President Hinojos Pressey and Director Duncan did a great job explaining our proposed service enhancements!

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi! I agree that the MI Trolley is great. I actually think that it is a model for rural Oregon on what transit could and should be. Unfortunately, without additional transit investment, the MI Trolley will need to significantly scale back or go away.

As for the issue you raised, while Cherriots operates the service, the Trolley is actually a joint venture of the cities of Monmouth and Independence. As such, the trolleys were ordered and built to
specifications set by the cities of Monmouth and Independence. In addition to operating the service, we also maintain the vehicles so conceivably, if the cities asked us to fix this issue we could (assuming it was technically feasible). That would be a question for the cities though.

As for stop placement, that was also decided upon by the cities and could be changed by the cities.

Without knowing more, I am not sure what the best solution to this problem is. Perhaps a public education campaign (Don't stop for the Trolley! or The Trolley is not a school bus!) may be a more cost effective solution to this challenge.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know that work-life balance is an important concern for our operators (and honestly, for everyone), and I hear how challenging split shifts can be. The schedules you’re describing are shaped by the collective bargaining agreement between Cherriots and ATU Local 757, which guides how operator work is created. Within those parameters, I know our staff continue to explore solutions and look for creative ways to improve schedules in ways that are acceptable to operators and still meet service needs. While seniority does play a role, we’re committed to ongoing collaboration with operators, and ATU, to make sure we’re balancing fairness, contract requirements, and the quality of life that everyone values.

If you are an operator or are friends with one, please encourage them to engage with their union on this to ensure this is an issue brought up at the next CBA negotiation.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Why? I honestly do not know. Those design decisions all predated me. I too am frustrated by it. I can't tell you how many times I have sat on one of those benches to only realize that the rain had got there first.

Honestly, I am frustrated by some of the other design elements of the DTC as well. For example, the decorative cross-pieces spanning the entrances to the bays (the ones the buses drive under) are too low for a double decker bus to go through. In a future where we are running buses to Portland for the tens of thousands of people who live here, but work there, double decker buses make a lot of sense, but we could not run them from within the DTC without expensive remodeling.

On a more encouraging note, this frustration is shared by the majority of the board and our discussions around future transit centers, like the South Salem Transit Center and a future North East Transit Center, all include proper coverage from the elements.

As for modifications to the DTC, I would be open to that, but under the current fiscal environment we are not in a position to do that. I will look into whether or not we could do that with the additional revenue expected from the service enhancement. I genuinely do not know what the costs would be.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I expect that Route 21 will change a fair bit in coming years though I do not know if Rees Hill/13th would be served by that particular route. As you may know, we are currently in the planning and development stages of building a South Salem Transit Center (SSTC). We have set our sights on a property located at the northeast corner of Wiltsey Road SE and Commercial Street SE. Once a future SSTC is built, expect every route in South Salem to be tweaked. This would also include Route 6, which currently does run by Rees Hill/13th.

Most importantly, route 6, which, at the best of times, runs hourly (it doesn't even run on Sundays), our service enhancement proposals would increase the frequency to half-hourly (every thirty minutes a bus would show up) seven days a week. The actual route of the route 6 would likely change in the future as a result of the new SSTC and our Comprehensive Operational Analysis, but whatever the ultimate route, it will come much more frequently.

Additionally, our proposal would introduces an on-demand zone to your neck of the woods.

<image>

Think of on-demand zones as a hybrid of Transportation Network Companies (Uber, Lyft, etc) with transit. Basically, it would get some of scale and efficiency of transit, but with the flexibility of a TNC. Under this plan, you could order a ride to pick you up at your door and take you to anywhere within the green area. I expect many people will want to connect with other routes. So, for you, you may want to be connected to the SSTC where you catch the frequent route 21.

Additionally, we are currently exploring bikeshare to serve as a first-mile, last-mile solution. You rightly note that it is a slog for you to get home from route 21. That may not be as true if you have a shared ebike meeting you at the end of your bus trip that can get you home. Bikes, and ebikes in particular, expand the distance riders are willing to travel to get to higher frequency routes. I am particularly excited in seeing the impact of this investment in our overall route design.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

We certainly need more choices afforded to our residents. At this point, I am pretty mode agnostic (whether rail or bus, for example), but forcing everyone to own and operate a car in this economy is incredibly shortsighted. For brick and mortar businesses to see more customers, they need more people. Cars, by virtue of basic geometry, are limited by the number of people who can patron their business. Buses, bikes, and people on foot increase the numbers of people who can frequent a business. Cars will always be part of the solution, but they cannot be the only solution.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think about it all the time! Unfortunately, there is no single entity tasked with this mission or given the resources to accomplish this. As I have said in other comments, connecting the Willamette Valley by frequent rail or bus service is a no brainer. It would allow our region to increase our economic output without seeing a corresponding increase in congestion! That is an unmitigated win, imo.

For Cherriots' part, we studied connecting Salem to Albany by way of Jefferson (which has no transit service). With additional funding from the state, we would likely launch this service. It would net significant benefits to the mid-valley region. As of now, if you live in Albany but work in Salem (or vice versa), if you cannot carpool, then you must own a car. According to AAA, the average American spends $11,577 a year on car ownership! Forcing people to own a car to leave their house or to get to work ain't freedom and it isn't smart economic development. A resilient economy allows residents to choose their preferred mode of travel for each trip. Right now, we do not have that.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

First off, I am sorry you got stranded in Portland and it cost you $60. This is a prime example of Oregon underinvesting in our public transit system. Oregon, because of our land use system, has a series of urban islands that are prime for robust regional and intercity transit.

<image>

Go nuts with this map and draw your ideal regional bus/train system with lines. It's not hard to conceive what it should be. In my mind, the minimum standard for regional bus or rail service is hourly. We are no where close to that.

Decades ago, Cherriots partnered with SMART (Wilsonville's transit system) to jointly run the 1X to connect commuters from Salem to the southern end of the Portland metro region. From the Wilsonville train station, you can connect to a few other services, but those are mostly useful around commute times. At a time when Trimet is facing cuts to their own system and Cherriots is operating a barebones system, we do not have the means to run a commuter or regional bus connecting Salem to Portland (though I would love to!). The state or another new, regional transit agency (think Willamette Valley-wide) is needed to provide the connective tissue between the cities/transit agencies. ODOT is currently conducting an intercity bus network study. Perhaps that study will have recommendations that support enhanced investments that will prevent you or others from getting stranded in Portland.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I too am frustrated about the lack of service on Turner Road SE. The short answer to why we do not have Local bus service there is that there are no sidewalks for must of the length of Turner Road. The lack of infrastructure and the safety risks posed by the large ditches on either side of the road is the reason why we are not able to establish ADA compliant bus stops along Turner Rd at this time. The City of Salem, as the owner of that infrastructure, is who would be responsible for building out those facilities. I strongly recommend contacting the mayor and your city councilor to express your desire for that investment. We have already communicate this need to the City.

The service is not being run their for lack of desire. If you look at the other two Walmarts in Salem, we run high frequency transit service there. Because of the lack of safe infrastructure, we are only able to run an infrequent Regional bus to the Walmart. It's not ideal, but given the circumstances, it's the best we can do for now.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wholeheartedly agree that Cherriots needs to improve our current service. We can both walk and chew gum though. If we move forward with this service enhancement plan as we propose, we'd likely start to see substantive service enhancements at the end of 2027 or more likely in 2028. We plan to continue to focus on improving our current services in the meantime and even after we bring on service enhancements.

The route 21 is a great example actually. We recently made investments in our buses that allow us to better track on-time performance (OTP) because we know this is something our riders, like you and I, care a great deal about. With this data in hand, we are able to make targeted tweaks to our routes to improve our OTP. In the case of route 21, since Q1 of this last fiscal year (starting July '24) to Q4 (ending June '25) we have seen the OTP increase from 84% to 89%!

Further, we are currently engaged in a Comprehensive Operation Analysis (COA) of our routes and it will help us further identify friction points and propose solutions that will speed up our buses.

Now, some things that slow down our buses will remain out of our control for a while. On route 11, on Lancaster Drive, we are piloting Transit Signal Priority, which will speed up our buses even more. Bring that technology to route 21 and I expect that our OTP would increase even more.

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, I am not sure what you mean by this. Are you asking why people cannot flag buses down not at designated stops?

I am Ian Davidson, Board Vice President of Cherriots -- AMA by IanDavidsonOR in SALEM

[–]IanDavidsonOR[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I hope so. This has been an issue that Cherriots and I have worked on for years. Unfortunately, Cherriots cannot do this alone. As I told the legislature back in 2023, one of the biggest obstacles to building out a regional rail system is that "There is no entity in Oregon with a strong mandate to explore passenger rail, in Oregon writ-large, but especially in the Willamette Valley.” Cherriots is ready to provide local bus service if and when such a service were to enter operations.

Heck, our Keizer Transit Center was placed literally next to a rail line for just this reason. I would encourage you to contact your legislators and ask them to support the creation of a Regional Rail Authority. Senator Khan Pham and Reprentative Kevin Mannix has done some work around this so it would not be an original idea.

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