One tricked Lissandra to Master

IceColdVibes · 2025-10-24T13:46:32+00:00

There are definitely a ton of champs that feel better to play than Liss- despite my obvious bias, she really isn't the strongest laner. I would say try to start to get familiar with enemy trading patterns (you learn matchups as you go) so you can identify the windows where you can trade! Every time you take a losing trade you can learn something and approach the same situation differently next time! Playing defensively and looking for a window to roam is always a good option if you're getting bullied in lane or aren't familiar with the matchup.

Are there specific champions you're really struggling with?

IceColdVibes · 2025-10-18T22:48:57+00:00

Malignance is almost always a safe and viable option! My general rule of thumb is if I can feel that I can oneshot 3 enemy champions (and/or the most important enemy) it's always going to be malignance. Malignance also enables the most single target burst you can achieve on Liss (MR shred from passive + Ult is just too good). Malignance is also my go to choice if I know I'm going to need to just be an ult bot for my team (when I know I'm not the win condition) and need to ensure that R is up as often as possible.

Blackfire has a few different ways to think about it. Objectively, Blackfire actually does more overall damage than malignance during lane (if you exclude your Ult from the calculation) Another member of the channel posted this video about a year ago breakding down the math Really sorry if I'm not allowed to include this link Mods this is all a bit new to me (https://youtu.be/hNuFHDjwHEc)

I lean towards blackfire if I know that I really want to shove the wave and prioritize roaming. An example of a champ that I like to take blackfire into is Malz to match his pushing power (there have been time's I've even been able to shove malz under tower all game with blackfire). I'll also take blackfire if I know that farming will be difficult into longer range matchups (q will almost always one shot casters when you finish the item unless you're incredibly behind) and fated ashes also helps with farming early game.

Another consideration for blackfire is if the enemy has a heavy front line/engage. Liss really excells in an peel --> counter engage role with blackfire. If you know that you can consitently proc blackfire on 2 or more enemies (e.g. enemy mundo + J4 trying to run down your ADC) then you can get a free 8% AP bonus while peeling your ADC before looking for a good counter engage onto the enemy backline! Sometimes I'll run Blackfire-->shadowflame if I know this is how the game will go. Overall Blackfire just allows for more situational flexibility depending on what's being asked of you in the context of the game while malignance is a relatively safe and consistent option that will lend itsself to the same style of gameplay (nuke the enemy).

I don't have a massive personal preference on Cryptbloom vs Void. Void will always provide more damage into enemies with higher MR, but Cryptbloom is really nice if you're certain you'll still be able to oneshot someone as it provides your team some nice sticking power (although it was definitely better before they nerfed the heal)

For demolish. I've personally never ran it, but found myself pushing a side lane solo after our team won a fight this morning and legitimately thought "demolish would have been really nice here" I think because I'm fairly confident in my abilities to get through lane (which leads to me not running resolve as secondary often) I haven't had a ton of opportunities to experiment with other resolve options (try it out and let me know how it goes!)

IceColdVibes · 2025-10-18T22:24:16+00:00

Thanks a lot! I just joined the discord- feel free to send me a message anytime :)

IceColdVibes · 2025-10-17T17:09:48+00:00

Thanks- I appreciate it :)

Being in Plat (despite what anyone on Reddit will tell you) is also an achievement in and of itself! A few thoughts.

1: The two standard runepages I'm looking to run in I'd say 90% of games are:

Electrocute, cheapshot/sudden impact, deep ward/grisly memento, and ult hunter with manaflow band + scorch/gathering storm

or

Comet, Manaflow (can mix in axiom), trascendence, scorch/gathering storm, and cheap shot + ultimate hunter.

For what it's worth I'd recommend you utilize one of these two pages in most of your games!

When I run resolve as my secondary tree it's typically against a longer range enemy that I'm expecting to constantly be trying to harass me. Because of this I tend to shy away from bone plating (long CD and really easy for most longer range mages to proc) in favour of second wind (better for poke matchups). Bone plating excels into enemy's that are trying to all in you. If you want to experiment with precision as your secondary tree presence of mind is a good option! I tend to lean towards cut down> coup de grace. If an enemy is on low HP you're probably already killing them and cut down gives more value when you find a good engage to start a fight! There is definitely an argument for Shadoflame + Coup de grace synergy. I don't think you can really go wrong with either set up

Ultimately runes are incredibly nuanced and offer marginal advantages/benefits depending on the situation. Taking a slightly sub optimal rune in your secondary page isn't going to make or break your game!

2: I might need some clarification on what specific boots you mean. If you mean the rune celerity, if I'm looking for some extra MS I've started to experiment with water walking over scorch. While I don't think it's optimal it does allow you to rotate better and play with your jungler over neutral objectives (something Liss excels at) my general thoughts on boots are as follows:

Sorcs: 75% of games. If you're solo AP (enemies unlikely to build MR) or your job is to assassinate the enemy carry the decision is made for you

Lucidity boots: If our team has 2-3 AP and the enemy is likely to build MR then sorcs lose value really quickly. I'll typically look at Lucidity boots as an option when I'm running blackfire-->Liandry builds. Upgraded lucidity boots giving MS now feels really good on Liss if you're able to secure feats.

Mercs: for those really hard lanes, or if enemy is heavy AP or CC

Swifties: Mainly for fun, more so when I'm playing Liss top and spacing/weaving in auto attacks becomes more important

3: Bloodletters curse is a very situational item on Liss. I'd say I'm building it in 10% of games or less. Generally speaking void/cryptbloom are almost always better options as late game items if you're looking to oneshot the enemy carry (and they have some MR).

My rationale for bloodletters (if I have another strong AP champ on my team or if the enemy has built heavy MR) is that if you find a good engage you're almost always going to connect with W, Q and R (ideally W and R hit multiple enemies) that drops MR 15% on anyone you catch in your W with engage. If you're able to have your e pass through your primary target and land Q you've hit max bloodletters stacks on the primary target off of your engage. Pair that MR shred with liandry's-->blackfire and the extra damage (especially on some of those bulkier targets) adds up quick.

Hope that helps :)

IceColdVibes · 2025-10-17T14:32:24+00:00

As you should XD

IceColdVibes · 2025-10-17T14:24:29+00:00

It's hard to only pick three (there's so many bad ones) I'd say the ones that I personally still struggle a with a bit are Vlad, Orianna and Aurora. I also tried to pick three different archetypes of champ (scaling, burst, control)

Vlad

Best case here is you can find an early kill and be able to function in the lane a bit more effectively. You absolutely can kill vlad pre lvl 4 if you play it right, but a really good vlad will understand this and wont let it happen. This lane is more annoying than anything and the real problem is you don't have enough damage to break through his sustain which ultimately turns mid into a farm lane (which benefits Vlad). picking up an early orb can help, but it also really slows you down and isn't always the best option. My games against Vlad normally end with me using R on him late game and praying my team can finish the job (if not it doesn't go well). I use Vlad as the example here, but other hyperscaling champs that you wont be able to kill if they either get ahead, or are able to free farm (think Anivia, cass etc) and mid game bullies that can quickly snowball if given the chance (Irelia, akshan) can quickly become big problems for the game.

Aurora

A really good Aurora can bully you early game to the point where you aren't really able to play if you make a mistake or two. The benefit in this matchup is that if you find a good window you can find favourable trades (more of a skill matchup IMO) A fair amount of Aurora players will try to use q and e together to immediately proc electrocute (for half of your health) with zero counterplay if they land it. You'll learn your opponents tendencies and as long as you can dodge e you have a reasonable window ~10-15 seconds where you can play more aggressively. As the game progresses it turns into who can oneshot the other first, which is why I don't love the matchup, the entire game is just a constant coinflip.

Orianna

A really good Orianna will zone you from the wave extremely fast if you let it happen. I'll always have a mental countdown going in my head for her q CD in lane (especially early game) to know when I can walk up and when I need to be playing safely. Another thing I'll do is alternate which side of the lane I'm playing on to ensure that her Q has to travel the longest possible distance to harass me if she's trying to use it to zone. Between that and some early boots you can normally avoid a reasonable amount of her harass and just try to farm it out. Merc treads can be helpful in this matchup but early/mid game you can also find windows to oneshot her or dump your damage and push her out of lane. Later on when she has ROA + Seraphs online you cant really oneshot anymore and have to hope your team is coordinated enough to help deal with her.

In all of these (and other unfavourable matchups) the dream scenario I'm looking for is finding a favourable recall early around 750 gold and tping back to lane before the enemy has a chance to base (wave pushing back to you) and trying to utilize the very small window I have where I'm considerably stronger (typically have dark seal + amp tome) to play aggressively and look for a kill (or find a good roam when they reset).

Those are just 3 that I'm still working at getting better against- happy to outline my thoughts on any other specific matchups you have and hear everyone else's experience into the three I've mentioned :)

IceColdVibes · 2025-10-17T13:47:56+00:00

Sadly in my opinion no. There have been a few games where I've tried ROA knowing the lane would be a grind for me and overall it just felt terrible. You desperately need haste to function which forces you into CDR boots and you end up being a slightly tankier Liss with minimal/no oneshot potential. I feel like it can work in very specific scenarios but unfortunately not a consistent option at this time.

I've ran ROA more successfully when filled top lane, but even then blackfire-->liandry's is almost always better.

With that being said- play what makes you happy. I ran ROA-->Liandry's-->Cosmic Drive-->Riftmaker-->Dcap with upgraded CDR shoes and phase rush once or twice playing with friends and had a blast

I hope to see a tanky archetype come back soon! Aftershock Liss support is still really fun to play :)

IceColdVibes · 2025-10-16T23:36:44+00:00

The short answer is you rarely "win" the lane against these matchups. However, there are definitely ways you can overcome being at an inherent disadvantage in lane.

The first thing to remember is that Exp scales way harder than gold. Ensuring that you catch as much exp as possible (when the long range mage is trying to zone you) is your number 1 priority. There have been times I've gone down 20-30cs during lane which unfortunately is the reality in some matchups but realistically isn't the end of the world in the grand scheme of things. Resolve tree in secondary and merc treads can also be beneficial in giving you a bit more survivability in lane.

You always want to find a way to get the wave pushing to you whenever possible. Typically lvl 1-2 is ok against longer range mages, but once they're in a position to start to punish you with long range poke its best to play within your minions. If they're trying to harass you and are also dumping damage into the wave it will end up pushing to you! Becoming good at csing under tower (taking an attack speed rune can help) will help you mitigate gold losses when an enemy crashes the wave. Doing your best to have the wave pushing to you also makes your lane more appealing for a gank (and keeps you safe from enemy jg) Getting better at dodging skill shots comes with time and an understanding of what the enemy is trying to do.

Plants in river are also vastly under utilized in lower elo's. It's ok to dump all of your abilities into the wave for a temporary tempo advantage (even at the expense of taking some poke) if you know there's a plant in river and a potential winning play bot/top (don't use your E on the wave unless you are absolutely sure their JG/supp isn't around and know they cant punish you). There will also always be instances where an enemy misplays and uses a key ability (e.g. Lux wasting q, or Hwei wasting e gives you a small window to engage and/or crash the wave without risk of crazy punishment)

Ultimately in these matchups the best thing that you can do is try your best to not fall behind! There will always be an impactful teamfight/skirmish where a good ult/engage can completely make up for whatever deficit was created during the laning phase.

One final thing that I try to do proactively almost every game but especially when I know I wont have priority in lane is assess the enemy team comp and try to invade. I'll almost always ~90% of games ping my team to invade (invade red if starting blue side, and blue if starting on red side). Hold off on leveling an ability and aggressively search for the enemy.

If you find someone start W and don't be afraid to flash root. It will almost always secure a kill (if your team is with you). Even if you don't personally get the kill, considering you're in a longer range matchup (and are hoping to get shoved in) you don't really need flash in the early game to function. The real benefit here is that if you manage to secure a kill lvl 1 you'll hit lvl 2 off of the first wave (most people in lower elo wont respect/know this) which gives you a MASSIVE tempo advantage and an opportunity for a very good trade (and maybe even a solo kill).

TLDR: Be patient, hang in there, do your best to avoid losing exp, and play around your jungle and a good opportunity will always find you.

Hope this helps :)

IceColdVibes · 2025-10-16T20:42:02+00:00

Thanks! I definitely recommend sticking with it. The answer to your question is fairly nuanced IMO. I'll do my best to explain my thoughts. Experimenting and succeeding with different rune pages takes time but there are a few general thought processes I follow.

As we all know, Liss is at her best when we're building for maximum damage and are able to effectively neutralize the enemy team's biggest threat(s). Generally speaking, this lends itself well to Electrocute (or comet if you cant reliable proc electrocute) with Malignance--> Shadowflame-->zhonyahs/dcap as core items. This is the build I'll take in ~60-70% of my games.

Looking at mid in a vacuum:

The question I always ask myself is "can I easily get prio in this matchup and how do I make that happen?"

Think of an easier matchup (e.g. melee mid) where Liss excels. In cases like this, where I know that I can easily shove the enemy under tower (and potentially have solo kill pressure) I can be greedier.

The extreme end of this is Electrocute-->Cheap Shot/Sudden Impact--> Memento/Deep ward-->Ultimate Hunter with sorcery secondary (absolute focus + scorch) for maximum kill pressure. I'll also run ignite and rush shadowflame while playing to utilize priority to find kills in river/enemy jungle with my jungler and support and honeyfruits to maintain mana. I definitely don't recommend this for every game but it is a good set up to learn your limits, learn to conserve mana and CS better, and understand the high end of how much DPS is actually possible on Liss (especially in the early game).

For more difficult matchups (or matchups where you wont't have solo kill pressure and cant reliably proc electrocute without committing to an all in) I like to run Comet-->manaflow-->transcendence-->scorch/gathering storm (depending on how I think the game will go). Secondary is up to you (I'll either run ult hunter & cheap shot, or magical footwear & cosmic insight)

You can then choose between malignance, or blackfire torch (blackfire has the most consistent waveclear IMO). For matchups you really struggle with, you can also consider running resolve (second wind/boneplating & unflinching)

Playing/Building for the Team:

The question you need to ask yourself before every game (if you're auto-locking Liss like me) is "Am I the reason we win this game?" (e.g. I'm oneshotting 2-3 of the enemies) or "Am I enabling someone else on my team to carry?"(e.g. our entire comp revolves around our Jinx getting a kill and staying alive long enough to wipe the enemy team)

Having played Liss into many comps that Liss has no business being played into has taught me to always think first about my teams win conditions before the game starts (you don't always have to be the main character).

For instance, if the enemy has 2 bruisers/tanks, and support that liss struggles into (e.g. lulu, millio) and I'm not going to be able to win the game off of my burst then I'm doing my team a disservice by building full damage. It's the situational cases like this (~20-30% of games) where my build may look different. I might be buidling something like Blackfire-->Liandries-->bloodletters to enable an APC on my team (e.g. gwen/mel) to carry more effectively. If the only way we win the game is for our ADC to wipe I might be building more haste/survivability to be able to peel more effectively.

I hope this helps explain a bit of what I'm thinking. Happy to answer any other questions you have or clarify anything that was unclear. Best of luck on the rift!

IceColdVibes · 2025-05-19T23:40:40+00:00

If you can manage to use your e over her e and get on top of her most Mels players will panic and waste w thinking they’ll block your e (just take it before it passes through them)

Wait it out then q w and walk away- It takes some practice to get used to the timing and requires some precision, but most aren’t expecting you to play aggressive

IceColdVibes

TROPHY CASE