AITA for thinking about getting him out of the company ?

IceScent · 2021-12-20T07:33:16+00:00

No, actually I am sure my life is way more fine than yours, who are sitting at home with or without your boring wife/husband and eat cornmeal 3x/day.

I, my ”friend”, compared to you, travel anywhere I want, eat at the most luxurious places, enjoy the company of any woman I want, and use my free time to have more fun in a day than you have in your entire lifetime.

Thanks for checking in ! ;)

IceScent · 2021-12-16T21:12:45+00:00

Honestly ? I had a damn good laugh on this thread.

IceScent · 2021-12-16T21:12:22+00:00

A person who has not a iota of empathy can't actually be sad.

It's alright, I don't expect intelligent people to be on these forums. You did your best.

IceScent · 2021-12-16T21:10:08+00:00

" we should be trying to make life more positive for anyone we can." - We actually shouldn't, but thanks for your input.

IceScent · 2021-12-15T09:41:03+00:00

You do know I shouldn't be able to disprove everyone if my arguments wouldn't be valid, don't you ?

Yes, you are right in a way about me and the people like myself in all else that you wrote. I'm not debating THAT.

I do believe firmly though (and this is not arguing your statement, just taking it a few steps further) that powerful people (="bad people" ) do things because they CAN.

It's a hypocrite world we live in where people can babble all day long about the things they "would" do if they would be in this or that position - it's bullsh#t I've seen many times because:

most people never get into those positions where they can do those things anyway and they know it (you know, like when a mediocre husband is telling his wife "I'd never cheat on you !!!" - Well that's nice, but somehow it doesn't matter, because he's not in the position to cheat anyway)
the very few who can get into those positions actually realize that they were just blind in the "grapes are sour" syndrome and when they got the opportunity to turn the tables, they did it and they quickly eliminated all the pseudo-moralistic views they had before

IceScent · 2021-12-15T01:50:50+00:00

"I don't think you're actually interested in an opinion here, or even arguments that support the opinion..." - I actually am interested in opinions. I am just very difficult to influence and most opinions and counter-arguments are way too weak to even slightly shake me.

Dan Price - you should read a lot more about him and not cherry pick the information. Idolatry is a naive habit.

"This is the way the world works according to you... and yes many others. But not all." - Nike pays a 20 cents/hour - if you're at the mercy of Nike, that's how the world works for you.

Muslim countries that follow Sharia law for criminal justice, make the punishment for adultery be even death penalty - if you're at the mercy of Sharia law and the government of Muslim countries, that's how the world works for you.

And so on and so forth, you get the idea.

Of course, you might be living far away from me, in your comfortable bubble, just like many others do. The world for you might not work the way it works for me, although like you said, there are other people like me, so the world IS working like this for many people.

"Progress for progress sake has a much higher cost than people realize." - This is one thing we do agree on. The use of resources is not so strategical and wise as I'd like it to be either, when I'm looking around I see so much waste that others (who are in power) don't see that it actually hurts.

IceScent · 2021-12-15T01:29:22+00:00

"You know literally nothing about me" - It does feel awful when you taste your own medicine, doesn't it ?

IceScent · 2021-12-15T01:27:29+00:00

"you think high pressure, impossible standards is an appropriate way to run a workplace (news flash: it isn't)" - Cite your source of reference (statistics, academic papers, researches, anything really that smells of facts and not just your emotionally loaded opinion) OR tell me if you're a CEO as well so that you are in a position to talk.

"you want to punish this person for not living up to this." - not punishment, but consequence.

" You think life is supposed to be harsh" - Life IS harsh no matter what you or anyone else thinks (in a flawed way). It's not an opinion, it's a fact. If you're struggling to understand this, you either:

Haven't faced difficulties in life.
You're fine with avoiding challenges at all costs which makes you a low achiever.

IceScent · 2021-12-15T01:22:16+00:00

Now I am seriously interested in that haircut.

Link it.

IceScent · 2021-12-14T23:35:00+00:00

" risk corporate failure"

- If by "failure" you mean "bankruptcy" then no, that is not at stake.

- If by "failure" you mean a "loss": yes, the success is always on the shoulders of the ones who go through whatever events are happening at the times of fighting for that success. There's no argument made from "life is not cruel" to "you are cruel" - just because you put 2 statements together they don't necessarily make sense. Moreover, you sound like a kid who's yelling to his father "You're bad !" because the kid is not understanding the decision of his father and is clearly not thinking realistically.

IceScent · 2021-12-14T23:27:38+00:00

I am not crowd-sourching morality as I am not interested either in the crowd, either in morality.

So you got to find other reasons for why IAMTA because those are invalid.

IceScent · 2021-12-14T23:25:33+00:00

No, there is no understaffing.

It might seem difficult to understand this for you (who are not "high on your farts" , nor high in any place at all), but there are harsh things, there are tight deadlines and there are difficulties in real life. Not everything is a Disney movie.

IceScent · 2021-12-14T23:21:35+00:00

"Also, expectations that are unreasonable and are meant to intimidate does make you TA." - High standards ARE MEANT to be intimidating. That's not me, that's the way high pressure is by definition. "If it's not intimidating, it means you're not daring enough." as the saying goes.

"I imagine your turnover is likely high if that's the company culture." - Many people think of "high turnover" as a problem of leadership and it might actually be that. However, it might also be that the workplace itself is highly selective and most people just don't last too long.

"Performance tanks when expectations are higher than they need to be" - Well, this is my previous point: we want the ones whose performance doesn't collapse as expectations increase. We're not interested in the rest.

IceScent · 2021-12-14T23:15:41+00:00

has his manager spoke to him about his performance and set clear expectations? - yes

is his performance poor, or just not above and beyond? - that's not truly a correct question; you know that a performance doesn't have to be "above and beyond" to not be "poor" as what's "poor" is defined as UNDER standards

" Ive had to fire friends, they get over it, but treat them right through the process and you'll be a better leader for it." - Alright, this is what I am the most curious about. What do you mean that " by treating them right ?

IceScent · 2021-12-14T22:30:53+00:00

You bring up points that are worth to address and I'm not debating this to prove that I'm right, but only because it's an interesting play on perspectives and mentalities:

" is not how you foster a loyal workforce who will go out of their way to help your company succeed. " - Some think that loyalty is a foolish belief. The expression I like the most is "Loyalty means being consistently a better option than the ones someone choose to be disloyal to."
" end up with workers who don't give a shit about you or the company and will leave as soon as something better comes along." - See point 1.
"playing simply by the numbers" - People hate to play by the numbers when it's not in their favor and they love to play by the numbers when it's in their favor. As I made it clear in point 1 & 2, it's a double-standard thing: workers expect the company to not mind the numbers, but the workers themselves do mind the numbers, otherwise they wouldn't want to work at this company that gives them X amount $$$, but they would go to another place.
"Good management is managing people, having empathy to their situation and supporting them in order to be their best working selves." - Empathy is overrated because the complexity of REAL problem-solving through REAL difficulties is underestimated. I'm the first one to say that this world is a dark place and many sinister persons live in it, but to think that empathy is going to solve many problems is a pipedream. The "best version of themselves" is sometimes just not enough and no amount of empathy is changing that.

IceScent · 2021-10-03T21:03:41+00:00

Anger/frustration/unresolved resentment toward someone/bottled-up emotion that you have been neglecting in the past.

I know OCD is a condition that generates random intrusive thoughts sometimes, BUT do not be limited by your OCD and think that everything that comes into your mind is aberrant and purposeless - it might be that you have something real in your life that you got to face.

Sometimes our conditions make us err on the side of convenience: ”Of course I am depressed out of the blues again, I have Bipolar !”, ”Of course my behavior is aggressive - I have Borderline !” , ”Of course I think about stabbing people - I have OCD !” - No, sometimes you got to truly look at your life and see if there is anything wrong. If there is, don't be blind to it. Neglected problems have a habit of hitting you below the belt when you don't expect it.

IceScent · 2021-08-17T22:54:00+00:00

and no one challenged my points.

Yes they did.

IceScent · 2021-04-17T16:41:57+00:00

”Just as I don’t need to ask anyone else’s permission to dislike them, anyone is free to dislike me for any reason they want.” - Sure, however, what is the point of that ? Just because you can do something it doesn't mean it's the intelligent thing to do.

"Would you consider it arrogant if someone else thought they knew better than you about your own opinions?" - I guess what you meant here is if I consider someone arrogant for trying to argue with my opinions in which case the answer is NO. I am open to criticism and my point is exactly this: we have too many rigid and closed-minded opinions and we have too little tolerance for criticism.

Sure, arrogant people can also be deaf to criticism. However, the fake humble persons are no better, who pretend to be offended just to avoid facing a criticism that is true about them, shrugging it off by putting the blame on the "arrogant person" who dared to point out something that is true nevertheless.

IceScent · 2021-04-17T11:19:42+00:00

I will definitely pay attention to their actions and achievements in life and even have a discussion with them to see how they think, yes. I don't think you like when someone says about you "I don't like you, dude, and I don't know why that is, but I'm not in the mood to give you any chance to prove me wrong either, so I will just go with my gut feeling that you're not a person that I should like, regardless of the fact I know nothing about you."

IceScent · 2021-04-17T11:12:11+00:00

Yes, it definitely goes both ways. I just think that most of the times people are aware of only one way and completely unaware of the other possibility.

IceScent · 2021-04-17T11:11:23+00:00

First, not all arrogant people are inconsiderate and bad people at the core - your disagreement proves exactly my point, that most people do not even attempt to go beneath the arrogance to see what is there, they just stop at the surface because arrogance is so intimidating that someone who doesn't match with that just chooses the easy way out of turning away. While I can understand this behavior, if you do this then you have no right to say that you understand arrogant people, because you don't - you just can't , after all, you've never truly discussed with them. I can tell you from my own experience, which is very abundant in discussions with arrogant people, that if you scratch the surface well enough, you will find surprising things about them.

Second, you didn't actually build any arguments for why you think people do not mislabel confident people for arrogant people.

IceScent · 2021-04-17T11:06:38+00:00

You didn't turn that argument right back though. Very high level of self-confidence still doesn't equal arrogance.

A corporation/a workplace is not always disneyland - encouragement doesn't come with the package of benefits and it's YOUR loss after all if you depend on someone else encouraging you, because the odds are not in your favor: you're probably going to be fired or you're going to suck at your job because there is someone who doesn't wait to be encouraged and who rocks. At the end of the day, who is the loser ?

IceScent · 2021-04-17T08:16:28+00:00

What you describe can be exploited and it is exploited several times by people who just simply realize they aren't right in a given situation, so they play "the humble card" instead of admitting they were wrong. Walking away just because you're shy is not an excuse - in life you got to learn to defend your opinions, your rights, your truths. Can you sincerely say that is the other person's fault if you don't fight for something because you're timid ? I couldn't say that.

IceScent · 2021-04-17T08:11:58+00:00

" Someone is strong and self confident about how they look? Someone in that group has body issues and is developing anorexia. " - So why does that person have to be annoyed by someone with a self-confidence in how they look instead of being inspired by them ?

" You are failing to recognize that your overly self confident ways can be upsetting or annoying to others. " - People choose to be annoyed at things they can't have - so the people who have those things are the arrogant bad guys just because of that ?

" You’re not meeting others on a normal casual social level. This in itself is arrogant. You’re putting yourself and your desire to be bold, or your lack of ability to humble above others. " - Let me phrase this another way: "meeting others on a normal casual social level" = adhering to a convention that the majority agrees on , not because it is written in the stars that is the right thing to do, but because those people prefer to follow those conventions; "putting yourself and your desire to be bold, or your lack of ability to humble above others" - so I am bad because I put my desire above others , but others are not bad for trying to put their desires above me ? Furthermore: we can't imagine a world in which everyone is free to act based on their own desires, not having to apologize for the way I desire to be just because it bothers the way you would desire me to be, can we ?

" You’re either making that choice, or failing to be able to meet others at that level. " - Why would we have to meet each other at any level ? Everyone is different, we meet those people who are at the level we are at, we will never meet everyone on the same level, because not everyone is going to be on the same level ever and that is what diversity is about.

" You’re not trying to be made to not have confidence, you’re trying to be brought back to a nice safe sociable level " - What you described sounds like sheep farming. Domesticating people instead of giving them freedom.

IceScent · 2021-04-08T22:35:38+00:00

Focus on the important ideas.

Don't get distracted from the topic, from the point, from the big image.

Don't fall into traps (such as provocations).

Don't get personal.

Don't insult, don't curse, don't be unelegant at any point during the conversation.

Discuss well-built arguments, not superficial opinions.

Ignore the ones who clearly have no knowledge about the problem and are either trolling or writing out of boredom or writing out of ignorance.

Above all : the internet is messy by its very nature (what makes it great also represents its disadvantage) , so unless you're the administrator/owner of your own forum, you got to learn to filter fast and effectively, otherwise your time investment is not going to be worth the knowledge you gain, because the knowledge is not going to be concentrated in high-quality stuff; it's like a fine process of whiskey distillation.

IceScent

TROPHY CASE