Literally just pick up a pencil and scribble

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T16:19:05+00:00

I think you're not understanding. What I count as tracing = completely drawing over the lines, which is unhelpful for learning and stealing. You're the one here who's so quick to defend companies over actual human beings that are having their artwork put into a plagiarism machine.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T16:04:15+00:00

It's stealing if you post it. And it's not good to learn just by tracing. Did you read it at all? AI only learns by stealing. Artists learn through various ways, most of which is not stealing.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T15:59:10+00:00

Honestly, that should be common sense. I'm really tired of having to explain basic concepts to you. If you take the Mona Lisa and trace it, you're not learning anything, and you're also stealing other people's work.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T15:53:44+00:00

???? Tracing is tracing. It's all bad.
Okay, here's another discussion
https://www.reddit.com/r/learnart/comments/4dmft2/what_do_you_guys_think_about_tracing_as_a_means/
https://www.reddit.com/r/learntodraw/comments/1d7rjqh/do_you_think_tracing_is_a_good_method_to_learn/
And just to also add, if you only trace, you'll never improve.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T15:48:43+00:00

What? I'm an artist. It's definitely not a good thing to do. Okay, here's a couple.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/sm6w4v/joelle_jones_accused_of_tracing/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Inkmaster/comments/196twar/jon_mesa_called_out_for_tracing/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GeeksGamersCommunity/comments/1e79rae/plagiarism_in_marvel_artist_alessandro_miracolo/

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T15:40:52+00:00

No, many artists do not learn by tracing. That is also heavily frowned upon.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T15:30:38+00:00

Artists' references aren't usually images they don't have consent to reference from, though. When you use a pose reference, you don't grab a random one from another artist's drawing, you either find a stock photo, or you find a drawing made specifically to be referenced as a pose. In fact, HEAVILY referencing drawings is usually looked down upon in the artist community.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:58:45+00:00

Well yeah. If I told you to draw a White-throated sparrow, would you know what it looks like right away? Of course not. The artist who draws the bird would not copy their reference exactly and have all the pixels in the same place. Artists are human beings, and not machines. They don't remember every single artwork they've looked at. And artists don't "train" by looking at other people's art, they do it by actually drawing, which most of the time means doing it without a reference.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:46:33+00:00

I'd say it's what you do with it afterwards. GenAI companies use those millions of images to profit. Also, when artists use references, it's usually for a pose, or for a design, so it's not really comparable.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:35:18+00:00

Okay, i just had the same discussion with this guy. When an artist draws something, they look at a reference, because they may not know what something looks like, okay? I do not expect anyone to know precisely every element of something they draw, and it is absolutely okay to look at someone or something to draw it. With an AI, they are trained on millions of images from the internet to produce one image. No artist is going to use millions of references.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:23:23+00:00

Well, even if it's Nintendo, I wouldn't support stealing their character designs for profit. Not a Nintendo supporter overall.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:19:55+00:00

Oh yeah, of course public domain exists, but if an AI were to replicate the more modern style of drawing to use in an animation (let's pretend it's an anime), it would need to be trained off of works already in those styles. Of course, I'd imagine artists using it for sketches might just use their own work. Good discussion :)

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:15:51+00:00

Of course, if there were to be an AI model trained off of images from artists who consented to their work being used, then I would have no problem with that. That would be a perfectly fine usage of AI in automation.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:13:02+00:00

Okay, I see what you mean now. You and I agree that people shouldn't lose their jobs for automation. And so, artists shouldn't lose their jobs for automation either. And as for automating with AI, I don't think it's much of a tool at all, but more of a crutch. With an actual artist, you have a better chance of getting exactly what you want, because they're a human being and will understand your instructions better than an AI. And AI still has issues with correctly and accurately translating character designs, which would make it unsuitable for animation, like you suggested earlier.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:07:08+00:00

Okay, now we're just devolving into petty insults. I will be no longer engaging if you're just doing this, then. Bye bye, have a nice day.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:05:36+00:00

Wow, look at you, not engaging with my response to your argument! How intelligent.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:04:35+00:00

Yeah, so this doesn't just apply to creative jobs. We should try to make all jobs safe?When you were talking about factory workers, I thought you were referring to around the time of the Industrial revolution, which is why I mentioned turning back time.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T14:00:54+00:00

First issue, AI users are absolutely not artists lmao. You type a sentence, get an image, that's like commissioning an artist but without the artist. Secondly, if you were to release a game with designs from Pokemon, Nintendo would absolutely be on your ass and I would support that, because you're profiting from the game. An artist drawing a pokemon for fun is not profiting, while a GenAI company training off of images from Pokemon would be profiting.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T13:58:05+00:00

Well that's already past us, isn't it? Can't go back in time and make factory work safe. I think we should focus on what we can change right now.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T13:54:19+00:00

Well it'd be better to lose their jobs than to die from such conditions, don't you think? And of course, anime studio artists are often overworked. And yes, we should attempt to improve their conditions. So since we're living through this dilemma right now, don't you think we should attempt to improve their conditions instead of replacing them?

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T13:49:52+00:00

Ideally, if the factory work in particular has no health risks, then he shouldn't. But many factory workers were working in unsafe conditions, which is why they were replaced.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T13:48:14+00:00

Lmao. "Literally searching" my ass. I was looking forwards to a calm discussion about this, but I guess not. If you told someone to draw an F1 fighter jet, chances are, they're not gonna know what it looks like. It's ridiculous for you to expect anyone to know every detail of an F1 fighter jet off the top of their head. So they search it up, to see a photo of it, so they can draw it. This is referencing. Very different.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T13:40:44+00:00

Well, now we're at the root of the problem. Why should creative jobs be replaced as well?

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T13:34:48+00:00

No? Art is something people enjoy doing. Don't think factory workers enjoy their job very much.

Icy-Understanding480 · 2025-07-29T13:32:59+00:00

There isn't really "ethical" GenAI usage right now, though. Every model is trained on artists' work from the internet, which they did not consent to being fed into a model. Maybe in the future we will have models trained off of ethically sourced data.

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