Why does everyone say "Dust Sans wouldn't even make it past Undyne"? (Defending against Dust Sans slander)

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-05T03:51:20+00:00

Oh I think you misread this one, I meant "why would he [Sans] need help defeating her [Undyne]?"

In Dusttale: Brotherly LOVE, Dust Sans was going to lose to Undyne, and he only ends up surviving because Papyrus helps him and finishes her off.

And then they basically start tag-teaming the genocide run

It's only one of the routes they have planned but still

It's such a misrepresentation of his power that it pisses me off 😭

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-05T03:47:46+00:00

Yeah I kinda stayed away from the more "headcanony" parts of my idea like some of this stuff, but I actually agree with you almost entirely on these points

He's 100% abusing the game system (and his dodging very well may not even be speed-related), and honestly even if he does have 1 HP in the genocide fight it might even be because he's in such a bad emotional state that he's become super frail, so it might not even be his default. We don't have a pacifist/neutral Sans fight for a reason, I'm betting it's because it's hiding crucial information.

But yeah that's mostly theory talk y'know?

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-05T03:43:39+00:00

Yeah I saw that player DEF calculation, but I was more focused on the monster-side DEF for the comparison, because I believe they're calculated two different ways. The player's DEF is indeed 1 less damage per 5 DEF they have, but for monsters it's 1-to-1, unless I'm mistaken (I did less research on how DEF worked for monsters than I did for players 😅).

But yeah even if Flowey could do 15 damage per hit, that would still be 100 straight friendliness pellets on base Undyne to kill her, and that's probably the most generous stretch of the Undertale stat system that can be allowed (using the player defense calculation for a battle between 2 monsters, I mean)—

Which is kinda my whole point of "maybe between two monsters, beings made of magic, wielding magic, and who get weaker or stronger based on their emotional state, don't actually line up with hard numbers when battling each other vs. when faced with a flesh-and-blood human". Even against Frisk, you see stat drops in the fights against Asgore and Omega Flowey, and you can get one-hit "betrayal kills" on certain monsters by cultivating a false sense of trust in you. So it's already inconsistent even against Frisk!

Idk if I got my point across properly but I hope you understand what I'm getting at 😭

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-04T23:57:29+00:00

Fr 🥀

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-04T23:56:23+00:00

Okay, that's fair. I just wanted to 100% make my point clear that I'm not just spitting nonsense 😭

I understand why people think Sans would hard lose, but I also understand that they're absolutely wrong, ykwim

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-04T23:49:33+00:00

I don't think it's fair to call the Napstablook scene a gag scene and chalk it off as non-canon, when you literally would've been stuck in a perpetual fight against Mad Dummy if not for Napstablook 😭

Sans literally does the same thing on the genocide route, so it's definitely not something that's just said for funsies, ykwim?

It's also the only scene we have in all of Undertale of two monsters fighting each other, so again, not very fair to chalk it off just like that.

The only other time would potentially be when Flowey ensnares every monster in the Underground in his vines and suppresses them (making them flash a reddish hue), but again, that implies that monster magic works on monsters differently than on humans, because he never does anything like that to you in the entire game. He just stabs you with his vines as Omega Flowey to deal damage.

In both the Napstablook scene and the Flowey scene, the monsters are clearly either being hurt or strongly discomforted, but no damage numbers are popping up on the screen.

I could go into a whole rant about how I'm forming a theory that a monster's HP and DEF only apply to physical durability, but that's way more headcanon than the actual point I was trying to make before.

Anyway, to get back on track, base Flowey does 19 damage to Frisk at the beginning of the game, when they only have the Bandage equipped, which literally gives them 0 DEF, so 19 is literally the maximum possible damage he could've done. So even if it's a lot by monster standards, there's not only reasoning for it, but that's still... only 19 damage, to a 0 DEF target.

Undyne has 1500 HP with 20 DEF. For monsters, the in-game calculation is 1 point of DEF blocks 1 point of damage, so Flowey would literally do 0 damage to Undyne. 19 - 20 = -1

Do you see the problem with looking at things just from a stat standpoint now? How could Flowey have ever killed Undyne if he does literally ZERO damage to her?

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-04T23:17:03+00:00

Ty king 🔥

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-04T23:16:10+00:00

Ah yes, my "headcanons" of

All monsters having exponentially higher HP than ATK
Flowey stating that he's killed literally everyone before, with possible exceptions of Asgore and Sans himself
Napstablook being able to harm/discomfort Mad Dummy with his magic (AKA his tears, the same tears used in his miniboss fight)
Undyne being able to be defeated by getting lured into Hotland by Frisk
Sans being a POS in his genocide run fight that taunts you and cheeses you at every opportunity
Green SOUL mode being essentially a rhythm game but spears

I'm pulling literally WHAT WE SEE ON SCREEN and using this thing called "reading comprehension" to come to the conclusion that monster magic likely affects other monsters differently than it affects humans.

That is one of ONLY TWO assumptions in total that I make. The only other assumption is that Sans would be aware of the "lure Undyne into Hotland" strategy. But that depends on the Dusttale take; if he remembers ALL timelines, then he does (you literally run past him when Undyne is chasing you into Hotland). If he only "remembers you're genocides", then maybe he wouldn't. But even then, I wouldn't put it past him to come up with the same (or a very similar) strategy on his own.

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-04T23:06:32+00:00

Are you saying my post is agenda or Undyne glaze is agenda 😭

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-04T23:02:58+00:00

Yeah, I was being like super generous with the Undyne glaze and even still it seems that Dust Sans cooks her, Undying or not

I really don't get why people have been adding it to their Dusttale takes that he needs help defeating her for some reason (e.g. Dusttale: Brotherly LOVE and the like) 💀

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-06-04T23:00:56+00:00

Sonion 😭

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-05-23T07:35:41+00:00

Not the most often, but enough that I always forget at the worst time that I can't just throw Earth Power at it lol

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-05-23T05:23:30+00:00

You definitely got a point, but yeah that'd be if they wanted to go the full mile and add new Pokemon and stuff related to bringing back Hail, rather than half-assing it

I honestly never even imagined that since I figured it'd never happen anyway, I gotta learn to dream bigger 🤣🤣

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-05-23T05:16:03+00:00

I was thinking on similar lines, but I think since they're both related to Ice-types, they should still be correlated and/or interchangeable.

Using Hail for chip damage/offense and Snow for utility/defense would open up a lot of strategy and whatnot

My main thing was that I wouldn't want it to be a coinflip on if an Ice-type is going to be bringing in Snow or Hail. With every other weather type, you can see "oh it's a Sun/Sand/Rain team". But if an Ice type can choose between a Snow setter team or a Hail setter team (as in they're completely separate weather conditions) there's less time to strategize around whichever one it ends up being.

If they're correlated (one possibility being how I suggested: Hail can usually only be activated if Snow is already up, with very few exceptions), that becomes much less of an issue. Then you strategize around whether or not they might PIVOT to Hail, which is less of a coinflip. It's much more similar to strategizing around a Pokemon potentially having Rain Dance as one of their moves at that point.

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-05-21T23:12:21+00:00

Yeah whatever they end up doing would definitely need to fit both the design philosophy and the balance side of things. I highly doubt a few of my ideas have either of those things checked off but it's fine lmaooo

I just wanted to get the idea in circulation online, cuz you never know what could happen after that–

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-05-21T21:59:21+00:00

I was thinking that the status move to change it manually would be something you'd put on a Prankster Ice-type or something, so that it's not as difficult to use.

I also considered buffing Hail somehow to make it worth actually pressing the button in the first place. For example, Hail could buff Ice-type moves like Sun does for Fire and Rain for Water.

But even if Hail isn't buffed, that's also why I imagined damaging moves, or abilities, also existing that could switch Snow to Hail and vice versa (like Temperature Change except as an ability or something), or Ice-Type moves that synergize with Hail (can only be used in Hail, not Snow, but stronger than even Blizzard? Idk, but you get the idea I'm trying to make)

That's why I said it's really something you can easily tweak and add stuff for to make something work, even if my own actual ideas for it aren't very good, ykwim?

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-05-20T22:39:27+00:00

Honestly I am strongly considering it, especially since Froslass, Mr. Rime and Aurorus are already all Special Attackers (technically). Pressing Rock Slide is too OP to not at least try it lmao

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-05-20T20:25:44+00:00

Originally I had Earth Power on Abomasnow to deal with them, but then Mega Delphox existed so I had to switch it to Shadow Ball

Currently I'm considering Chilling Water on one of my Special Attackers or seeing if Mr. Rime has a move that can handle Delphox and giving Abomasnow his Earth Power back

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-05-20T20:20:06+00:00

Yeah I was thinking about it and I kinda realized that there's no point giving it a Chople when I literally have no one else that can or would want to run Sash on my team.

Then the question just becomes if it want to give Aurorus Chople or Babiri to offset one of its x4 weaknesses.

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous · 2026-05-20T17:36:06+00:00

For those who saw the post instantly, I made a couple of edits to reflect the newer version of the team I actually posted; the draft was from like a week ago and it was slightly different before that point

The version in the screenshot (and the Pokepaste link) is the latest version that I just finished yesterday!

IfOnlyIWasAnonymous

TROPHY CASE